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Author Topic: Adding extra batteries  (Read 340 times)

Erasmo

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Adding extra batteries
« on: February 12, 2017, 09:25:00 PM »

I'm not planning to(at least for now ::)) but it has been done in a few occasions, with perhaps the most notable case being Terry Hershner's Streamliner:



IIRC this is a pre-2013 model Zero so things might have changed by now, but I'm curious if you'd be able to upgrade a later bike in a similar way and how it is pulled of in the first place. The wiring etc. might not be the hardest thing but making sure the bms accept the new capacity is maybe harder to figure out.
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protomech

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 02:11:27 AM »

With Terry's bike, I believe each additional battery had its own BMS - they were ZF3 modules.

Short answer - Zero does support a single additional battery module via the Power Tank, in theory this could be extended to additional modules.
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BrianTRice

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 05:24:12 AM »

Terry did bring that up as a kind of a poll/teaser: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6208

I think there are unknowns with getting more than two BMS' to play well together. They all have to agree to close their contactors to cooperate and cell voltages could get out of sink.

What Terry did was with the 2012 platform so it's a little different but he literally went the extra mile to bring that project together.

Come to think of it, the interconnects in the main Power Pack (or the Long Brick) don't work across BMS' (one BMS handles all cell voltages through the interconnects) and that's probably a contributing integration factor.

Without OEM support, buying a long brick (which I think Terry was aware of but couldn't discuss at the time) and trying to harness it like a Power Tank would require someone to make a professional-grade harness like the Power Tank integration.

Then there's the fact that each single brick is 42lbs which is tricky to place. One on each side of the battery compartment ("BMW Boxer" style, low and forward, probably held by the crash bars) is achievable but the "long brick" is not the form factor for that so you get 2 BMSs to add instead of one.

A "long brick" might mount where the Power Tank goes if you put a larger cowling over it and had really good bracing for it. Then you'd put chargers on the crash bars.
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Erasmo

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 11:08:17 PM »

Oh yes I remember that topic now, I scanned it quickly but I am also curious on the technical aspect of it, especially if/how it's possible to make a Zero accept auxiliary batteries, either Zero another make.
With the SC and fairing in the works the bike will be pretty complete for now, but you never know if you can pick up a Zero/Leaf pack for cheap after a crash or something. Might be worth to throw it in a little trailer for long trips, but before acquiring one it would be nice to know if it is possible at all.
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Doctorbass

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 08:27:06 PM »

On my 2012 that,s what i did..

I added two ZF3 battery (18s2p cells only ) directly to the actual ZF9 with BMS.

What i did was to parallel every single connnections between the zf9 BMS and the two ZF3 as well as power connections that i engineered in a way that the currnet sharig is perfectlt and equal between the total cells.

i fact the ZF9 is a 3x ZF3 brick but with only one BMS for all 3.. what  i did was to add 2 brick for a total of 5 bricks and get fron 120Ah to 200Ah all controllerd by the same BMS.

As well this simplify the digital communications  and no need to understand the code that Zero use on the CAN lines or any analog lines like "Throttle engage" or "ON BMS signal"

But this require PATIENCE making the complete Harness and make sure it keep the  system safe.

The 2012 are the only year to use 18s ( 66V nom) so i used some DB19 connetors, 20 gauge cable bundle wires   and a splitter. Everything can be removed safely.

It work like a charm since 3 years now. cells remain perfectly balanced and are protected all by the same single original BMS.

I have used SB120 and 2 gauge wire that connect to the ZF9 pack inside and right on the main power connections but i aded a 300a fuse in line. Then  these two 2 AWG wires split in a Y to dual pair of  4AWG wire then to a SB50 connector each pair to the two added battery brick.

I have measured the amp on the power connections and every added brick draw exactly 1/5 of the total current witch is perfect! 5 brick total each have 1/5 of current  Awsome!

I also used dielectric grease to protect the DB 19 connections. and i also added a 150A fuse on each of the two added brick so in case of crash and hard disconnect or short, nothing will catch fire.

Now in spring 2017.. my plan are to do the same but with a ZF11.4 at 102V.. i'm a little tired of a powertrain driving at 66V ( 2012 model).. I want full power capability.. so i might remplace the ZF9 for a ZF11.4 and use two external Zf2.8.  as well this will require replacing the entire wiring harness and DC-DC and MBB...    mor eto come!  Stay tuned!

take a look to my 2012 ZF15 ! :  I have all pictures of the conversion here:  http://roulezelectrique.com/quebec-la-sarre-quebec-en-moto-electrique-2000km-pour-0/

Doc
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Burton

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 09:31:23 PM »

Now in spring 2017.. my plan are to do the same but with a ZF11.4 at 102V.. i'm a little tired of a powertrain driving at 66V ( 2012 model).. I want full power capability.. so i might remplace the ZF9 for a ZF11.4 and use two external Zf2.8.  as well this will require replacing the entire wiring harness and DC-DC and MBB...    mor eto come!  Stay tuned!

Doc

I had plans to do something similar to my bike so I could get better highway mileage and have the modules be removable for an FX to play around with in the dirt. Always welcome to see how you handle your electrical problems :) Love learning from your experiences and expertise.
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Erasmo

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 10:00:22 PM »

Interesting write up dr. What are your thoughts on a trailer with batteries that you'd connect to the power tank connection.
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Doctorbass

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 11:36:09 PM »

Interesting write up dr. What are your thoughts on a trailer with batteries that you'd connect to the power tank connection.

no trailer for me!!   to ugly on a sexy motorcycle 8)

Doc
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Erasmo

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 11:54:00 PM »

Yes but the concept of it, doable or not worth?
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Doctorbass

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2017, 01:41:41 AM »

The main problem with trailer on motorcycle is the braking control that will be reduced with heavy battery on it and might encourage jacknife on wet pavement or poor driving conditions.

Doc
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Erasmo

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Re: Adding extra batteries
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2017, 05:00:33 PM »

Noted, but lets say you're building a sidecar or something, idk. I'm interested in the feasibility on the bike side, the older bikes are easier to trick in to accepting an extra battery but the newer bikes? Could be interesting to add a few bricks from a crashed bike of the same model year, especially on longer trips.
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