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Author Topic: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.  (Read 1458 times)

MostlyBonkers

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2017, 01:39:51 PM »

Its not equivalent to a 125.....

You're right there Testpilot. This bike has a maximum power of 6kW whereas a 125 is restricted to 11kW.  I think you'd find it very disappointing after your 2014 DSP.  Disappointing for a 125 rider even!

Zero don't have to compete on price with this manufacturer. It's a completely different market. I feel it would have been better dressed up as a scooter. Storage for a helmet, better suited for riding through town etc.  More honest too.

Is there any chance of getting your DSP back or has it been sold on? Do Streetbike have any left unregistered? Or you might get lucky and get a used 2015? That would be good too.
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duskfire7

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2017, 01:58:23 PM »

Have you ever rode a zero sr and an equivalent to your Tork moped? There not even in the same ball-park, youre obviously contracted or something. Just stop while you're not totally hated on this forum no one's falling for it
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Testpilot1

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2017, 05:05:08 PM »

Well luckily for me, I'm not after this forums approval,not here to make friends and no I'm not contracted..............

It's not just about max power,it's about how it gets there,and with that there's no comparison with gas bikes.If your after more than a commuter,you just wouldn't go for a Zero, I wouldn't have one again unless it was cheap.

I'll hold out for something fully faired , exciting , and reasonably priced to come along, if I'm ever after more than a commuter.

Wait until the power source is ZPE, batteries will be a thing of the past, free and unlimited power lol

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/10/11/multiple-scientists-confirm-the-reality-of-free-energy-heres-the-proof/


Wasn't trying to get anyone emotional, just sharing ideas
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 04:03:17 AM by Testpilot1 »
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Skidz

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2017, 05:57:16 PM »

I'm not going to hold my breath untill ZPE becomes mainstream, that's for sure ;) But that discussion belong somewhere else than in the Zero > 2013 forum I guess.
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Fred

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2017, 06:21:13 PM »

The big question is whether Zero can compete with India's legendary quality control and their ability to deliver to spec and on time.
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Richard230

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2017, 09:14:06 PM »

The big question is whether Zero can compete with India's legendary quality control and their ability to deliver to spec and on time.

As someone who owns an Indian-made Royal Enfield, I assume you forgot to insert one of these in your message:   ::)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Fred

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2017, 09:28:25 PM »

I was just thinking back to my days of managing an offshore software development team in India. That nice winking emoji must have been implied every time someone said "Everything's fine. The code is on track, tested and you have it tomorrow."
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Justin Andrews

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2017, 10:57:14 PM »

Quote
It's not just about max power,it's about how it gets there

Your power in kW determines how you get there, and 6kW is going to get you there rather slowly indeed.
Unless that is your gearing is rather low (and thus a low top end) then your acceleration is going to suck. 

Basically I predict that this bike is somewhere equivalent in terms of performance to a 50-80cc machine.

In fact I would not be surprised if a 125cc ICE would smoke a Tork T6X off the lights based on the specs.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 11:00:48 PM by Justin Andrews »
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Zero 2015 SR (+PT);
Yamaha Diversion 900

MostlyBonkers

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2017, 01:00:03 AM »

I think this is mostly about Testpilot making a mistake by returning his DSP after a short ownership. He's sold on an electric drivetrain but has budget limitations.

Testpilot: I think the worst thing you could do is get one of these Tork bikes. Just don't bother getting a bike at all unless it's got half a chance of being fun to ride. The S and DS are fun. The DSR and SR much more so.  Or just get an ICE off eBay. Life is too short to waste your time with rubbish. A commute will just be tedious with one of those Tork bikes. Not worth the effort of putting your gear on.  I'd rather get the train and read a book than ride one of those.
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Fred

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2017, 01:51:54 AM »

Or make sure you test ride one and find out what it's like before parting with any cash.
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Testpilot1

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2017, 03:04:14 AM »

Your mapping/ controller decides how you get there not kWh, that's why you have Eco,sport mode etc on the zero's.
Imagine if a lecky bike had mapping to emulate the 2 stroke powerband thing, I remember that being dead buzzy when I had a 250 as a kid 😀
It s not about me getting rid of my DSP, I've already held my hands up and said I made a mistake,but thats only because I got it at the heavily discounted price. I can live with that knowing I didn't loose a penny on its private sale.
Time to be patient.
Anyway it's good to talk,that's why I started this topic as a question,time will tell how it's answered.
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Justin Andrews

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2017, 04:09:56 PM »

Quote
Your mapping/ controller decides how you get there not kWh,

I assume you meant the output of the motor (kW) and not the storage of the battery (kWh)
Also remember Watts is the amount of energy consumed by the motor to produce a given amount of work, generally given losses you can translate that easily to work produced. So kW is pretty much the silver standard of "how you get there" Torque in newtons being the gold standard. ;)

So speaking normally, as I understand it, a 6kW rating on the motor is the peak at which you can put 6kW of power through the motor and it will not (seriously) overheat.
Your controller can indeed remap the motor, and the Zeros remap the motor, downwards. However if you remap the controller try to allow the motor to draw more power than it is rated for, there is an increasing danger it will overheat and melt.

So yes, theoretically you could push a 6kW motor way above 6kW, once...

But it will never ever be a 45kW motor like on the Zero-DS.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 04:16:38 PM by Justin Andrews »
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Zero 2015 SR (+PT);
Yamaha Diversion 900

Justin Andrews

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2017, 04:27:48 PM »

So actually lets talk about the T6X in terms of its ability to accelerate.
It lists the torque on the site as
Quote
Maximum torque : 27 Nm

I'm guessing that at the output shaft of the motor.

By way of comparison
2014
Zero-DS : 92Nm
2015
Zero-SR : 144Nm
2017
Zero-DS : 110Nm
Zero-SR : 157Nm

So the Torx bike will be four times slower off the lights than the Zero-DS you owned.

I do a comparison with ICE bikes, but the gearbox complicates things.
The H2R produces the same torque as a 2017 Zero-SR, but is substantially quicker for example.



At the end of the day, if you are okay with a cheap run about bike, then thats fine.
Personally I could not own one, I found the Zero-ZF9 a little bit lacking in guts for my personal taste, and the Torx looks worse.
There is no way in hell I'd spend my money on the Torx bike.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 04:31:09 PM by Justin Andrews »
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Zero 2015 SR (+PT);
Yamaha Diversion 900

Testpilot1

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2017, 04:40:35 PM »

Do you think it would be possible/appealing to buyers, if Zero had an extra map setting on the bars, for that 2 stroke power band feeling ?
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Justin Andrews

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Re: Can Zero Compete with the pricing of TORK Motorcycles.
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2017, 04:54:10 PM »

I guess. Not something I'd considered myself.
Certainly more customisation such as mapping the throttle setting to power delivery on the custom setting might be nice.

Saying that, If you pay about a grand you can also get a sevcon programmer, and you can directly remap the controller yourself.
Though people more knowledgable than I about such things point out it's also a good way to wreck your motor, or get yourself killed. ;)

There are a couple of people on these forums who are experienced at remapping the controller using the programmer.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 04:56:32 PM by Justin Andrews »
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Zero 2015 SR (+PT);
Yamaha Diversion 900
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