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Author Topic: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.  (Read 2016 times)

Justin Andrews

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2017, 04:23:56 PM »

Quote
I completely agree but for 2015+ models, I don't the progress is relevant since it seems the industry has reached a plateau in terms of capacity/range. I hope to be surprised, of course, but IMHO the changes in recent models was negligible compared to 2015 models.

There has been some talk that Farasis has a more energy dense cell than the one currently being used in the Zeros.

Why Zero is not using it in the 2017's is a good question, either they have enough of the previous cell in stock, and that it makes little financial sense to upgrade at this time, or the new cell is lacking possibly in the required Power Density to support the more powerful 2017's.

Another interesting point to consider is Zero have recently changed the physical architecture of their battery, over to the "long" brick. My thinking on this matter is that the change was to simplify manufacturing across the range. However its possible the change is to support future development with a new cell type or arrangement of cells.
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Zero 2015 SR (+PT);
Yamaha Diversion 900

ElectricZen

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2017, 08:55:46 AM »

"There has been some talk that Farasis has a more energy dense cell than the one currently being used in the Zeros."

From my understanding, yes there is.  However it is the first time they have announced an improvement before going into full production of the new cell.  Therefore, we could guess that they are in production now or soon.  Probably announced in an attempt to draw new customers.

What's important to keep in mind is that Zero has expanded its development/testing time to at least 8 months.  This means the next version of the Zero is being thoroughly tested before going into full production.  Which we should all see as a good thing.  Keep in mind most vehicle manufacturers have development periods of 3-5 years or even longer.

This also means it's likey Zero doesn't physically have these new cells to test in the 2018 development cycle.  So if not 2018, 2019 maybe.

The advancements over the last, say 5 years, is nothing short of amazing.  So stay tuned😀
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Justin Andrews

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2017, 11:55:15 PM »

Yeah, I'm almost expecting we could get range parity with the average ICE bike in under five years.
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Zero 2015 SR (+PT);
Yamaha Diversion 900

JaimeC

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2017, 01:15:14 AM »

Yeah, I'm almost expecting we could get range parity with the average ICE bike in under five years.

My 2016 S already goes farther on a charge than my friend's Harley 1200 sportster on a tank of gas.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

Duskfire

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2017, 07:26:19 AM »

Hey thought I would chime in, I've been shopping for a reasonable Zero since I test road a new DS in early 2015, the dealer I road it at was Maverick Motorsports in Missoula MT, out of the way for sure (2 hours from me) I also checked with the Seattle Triumph dealer and found several options, at the time they wanted $13k for their demo bike, only a slight discount, and I didn't have a specific interest in a DS. Later on in 2016 in Seattle I found a used 2014 SR for 9k, it had better acceleration then the 15 DS and farther range, but the suspension, and breaking system was less desirable. Checking back at the DS demo model was down to $11,400 and qualified for the tax credit, however, the tax credit only applies if you owe taxes not if you get a tax return. With my income around 25k annually I do not owe taxes so that didn't appeal to me. I held out on buying either and found a 2015 SR on eBay for 12k, offered 9.5k and settled on $10,250, a great price. The bike came with a quick charger less than 500 miles and a pair of Zero brand leather gloves. It's in the garage now and I couldn't be happier, even with the Empulse TT's going for 6k I know I made the right choice. The market is slim because most people haven't payed off their 2013+ Zero's yet and don't want to take a hit in addition to the scarce sales numbers Zero actually puts out. It'll take more popularity in ebikes for the used market to grow.
Oh around the same time I saw a used 2014 DS for like 12k on Craigslist.
Hope my insights provide something useful,
Cheers,
Taylor Rosevear


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Justin Andrews

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2017, 03:59:52 PM »

Yeah, I'm almost expecting we could get range parity with the average ICE bike in under five years.

My 2016 S already goes farther on a charge than my friend's Harley 1200 sportster on a tank of gas.

Heh, though on average most bikes do 150-200 miles at 60-70mph on the motorway.
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MrDude_1

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2017, 07:17:06 PM »

Yeah, I'm almost expecting we could get range parity with the average ICE bike in under five years.

My 2016 S already goes farther on a charge than my friend's Harley 1200 sportster on a tank of gas.
Yeah, and it goes further on one charge than most of my past V-twin sportbikes too... However I cant do the same rides I used to do with them. With them I would do a big loop and gas up for the way back. With the zero I would have to recharge on the way back, and thats not realistic when you're riding a rural loop... so I need more range.
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Richard230

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2017, 09:09:54 PM »

Yeah, I'm almost expecting we could get range parity with the average ICE bike in under five years.

My 2016 S already goes farther on a charge than my friend's Harley 1200 sportster on a tank of gas.
Yeah, and it goes further on one charge than most of my past V-twin sportbikes too... However I cant do the same rides I used to do with them. With them I would do a big loop and gas up for the way back. With the zero I would have to recharge on the way back, and thats not realistic when you're riding a rural loop... so I need more range.

Besides, if you are riding with friends on IC bikes, when they refuel it takes less then 5 minutes, but if you have to refuel.....it doesn't.  That is one reason that I want a larger battery pack instead of a fast charger.  Plus, where I ride you would be lucky to find a 120V outlet, much less a charging station.  They tend to be located where there are crowds of people and that are places that I try to avoid.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

nevetsyad

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2017, 09:15:20 PM »

No RV parks (14-50 outlets), car dealerships (J1772) along the way? If you're doing 100-200 miles, you have to pass by something. 30 minutes to stretch the legs and you'd be set to continue.
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2015 Zero SR (4+ months in the shop), 2016 Zero S (Random freeway shutdown, heading to shop soon)

Justin Andrews

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2017, 09:23:49 PM »

Basically.
My idea is 150 miles at 70Mph, followed by a rest break for 30 minutes for a bite to eat and charging, then continuing onwards.

Once I can do that, I'll never need an ICE bike again.

I probably do a journey like that a half dozen times a year, otherwise the Zero covers nearly all of my riding needs.
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BrianTRice

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2017, 10:40:04 PM »

Basically.
My idea is 150 miles at 70Mph, followed by a rest break for 30 minutes for a bite to eat and charging, then continuing onwards.

Once I can do that, I'll never need an ICE bike again.

I probably do a journey like that a half dozen times a year, otherwise the Zero covers nearly all of my riding needs.

Yes, I think this pace would work for most people. Improving the bike gets the ride to charge relationship in that direction, but it's also true that charging density is so low in most places as to highly restrict how you can spend your time.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

JaimeC

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2017, 03:05:13 AM »

Bear in mind I didn't buy the Zero for recreational riding.  I bought it for a specific purpose. 80% or more of my annual mileage accumulation is done commuting back and forth to work and running errands after hours or on weekends.  For that, the Zero is simply unbeatable.  For weekend and longer trips, I have two ICE bikes sitting in the garage.  Having the Zero means less wear and tear on them and significantly lowers their annual maintenance costs.

We're not ALL "Brian T Rice" or "Electric Terry" willing to go out of our way to use our Zeros for everything.   ;)
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

Justin Andrews

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2017, 04:03:56 PM »

JamieC
Thats pretty much exactly what I use my SR for. Except my Diversion has seized up from lack of use... ;)
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JaimeC

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2017, 07:55:11 PM »

I've been using the C650GT on the REALLY cold days (to take advantage of its superior wind protection, heated saddle and heated hand grips) so the scooter isn't just "sitting there."

I rode the K1200LT on New Year's Day and will be riding it again next month when I head down to Daytona Beach for Bike Week.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
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ElectricZen

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2017, 04:56:43 AM »



We're not ALL "Brian T Rice" or "Electric Terry" willing to go out of our way to use our Zeros for everything.   ;)

With a supercharger, not sure what you mean by "going out of our way".  The supercharger is a game changer as I can't ride more than an hour and half to two hours straight with the stock seat anyway.  But I get what your saying. 

I think a lot of people who don't have an EV understand just how expansive the infrastructure is just by virtue of civilization being reliant on electricity.  So for me, the zero DSR with a supercharger, is a do everything bike.  But that's just me.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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