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Author Topic: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.  (Read 2194 times)

NEW2elec

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The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« on: February 04, 2017, 12:06:40 AM »

This is a subject that I don't think gets enough attention and is actually very important to not only the current Zero owners but "rebuyers" and potential  buyers alike.
Like some other people who aren't rolling in dough, money is a big concern with most choices in my life.  I have never bought a new car and likely never will.  I get them a few years old and let some other impatient person take that multi thousand dollar hit and enjoy the new car smell while I used the savings to pay off my house early.
Now if you are a top earner and money is like a river to you it just flows past with no concerns this topic isn't for you.

I'm revisiting the used market topic because it looks unlikely the Fed tax credit will be part of future budgets.  Some states still offer credits but most of the country is on its own.  The only bright side of this is the used market may see an up tic in sales and pricing.  The tax credit of course only applied to new EV sales which made buying new at a dealer a tempting option.
I think these are great bikes and there are a bunch (not quite a ton) of videos on You Tube backing this up, pretty much all of them have huge smiles after the ride and lots of "wows" for the speed and smooth ride.
The the same hits come at the end range and charge time are talked about but its the price that keeps them from pulling the trigger most times.  My closest dealer sits on the bikes for most of the summer (some sales but not huge) then in August they drop the price to 11 or 12 on the Rs and they are gone in a week.  The product is wanted there is a demand but when its next to a faster sport bike for $10,000 its a hard sale for ICE loving riders.
Same dealer in early 2015, when the new bikes were just hitting the floor, offered me $4000 in trade for my 13DS I smiled and said no thanks and then said if he could show me any of these bikes for sale under 9K I'd think about it, he couldn't of course.

This is where the ball gets dropped by some dealers, used Zeros have value that a lot of other bikes don't.  Zeros love to be rode! Pile on the miles boys they don't matter much.  Tires and brakes (tough rare on the brake pads) some bearings replaced but that's about it.  Your not wearing out a steel engine or cooking oil or fouling plugs or getting valves out of whack.  You just plug and go.
I have a Cycle Trader search saved to my favorites and look at it most weeks to see whats out there.  The 13s 14s are now about half of their orig MSRP  that makes them in line with their ICE competition but a lot of people looked at the "new and improved" models (which they do improve them) and go to the dealers and take that ride it off the lot hit.  If more people bought off private sellers two things would happen.  Dealers would be more interested in trade ins and would offer more for them.
I'm not the only one seeing these trends and those who do want the latest and best look down the road and wonder what their hit will be.  If the resale market gets looked down on than new bike sales will suffer as people fear they will get stuck with something they can't sell.

So don't be afraid of a used bike it has lots of miles to give and at close to half price there is a lot of wiggle room for some repair costs and even charging costs.  Do your homework but give them a try it's better than a gas bike at the same price.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 12:12:15 AM by NEW2elec »
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Fred

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 12:14:59 AM »

In the UK there doesn't seem to be enough of a used market for prices to be determined. The odd one that I've seen hasn't sold. I suspect someone who paid £12k+ only a few years ago thinks at least £8k sounds reasonable, but cautious buyers look at a bike where tech has moved on a lot and don't want to pay that much. Things should change but that's how I see it for now.

I've ordered a new FXS and have assumed I'll keep it indefinitely. If I ever miss that ICE sound, then I might get a second bike to go with it, but I doubt I'll ever sell the Zero.
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JaimeC

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 04:18:09 AM »

I plan on trading/selling my S in 2021, when the battery warranty has expired.  I expect to take a big hit on that, as I've been led to believe that monolith replacement is NOT an insignificant expense and considering how quickly battery technology has been advancing I don't think there'd be that much interest in five year old technology.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

ultrarnr

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 05:28:56 AM »

NEW2elec,

My experience with trading in a Zero is you are going to take a huge hit. Huge hit being defined as well below KBB value. Motorcyclist in general are afraid of any motorcycle with high mileage. The industry average is something like 3,000 miles a year. When I traded my 2014 SR in it had a bit over 24,000 mile son it which was another reason trade in value took a hit. Part of the reason trade in values of Zeros are so low is most dealers are afraid they won't be able to sell them. In the end my used SR took two weeks to sell.   
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NEW2elec

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 11:54:36 PM »

Well I hope we can educate buyers and dealers alike that miles on a Zero isn't the future killer it is on an ICE bike.  Your going to get fairly big price drops from the latest and greatest new Zeros that just can't be helped.
Would any of you who have owned, say 600cc or less, standard or dual sport or naked ICE bikes pay the same amount for a Zero?
Lets say a DR650 or KLR650 runs about 8-9k new which is about what a 13-14 DS runs used now.
Unless you were going 85% off road in some muddy bumpy trails to me the Zero is far nicer.  Its also cheaper to run and much much smoother and quicker on the road too.
Just food for thought and a selling point that people need to know.
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Fred

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2017, 03:46:57 AM »

It's not miles that kill the used price of a Zero, it's that tech is improving so quickly. e.g. Nobody wants a 2012 Zero because the later models are significantly better.
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JaimeC

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2017, 04:00:58 AM »

It's not miles that kill the used price of a Zero, it's that tech is improving so quickly. e.g. Nobody wants a 2012 Zero because the later models are significantly better.

What HE said.  I likened it to personal computers.  They don't change TOO much now, but in the early days the development was so rapid that any PC you bought was obsolete in only a few months.  Electric vehicles are kind of at that state now.  Just look at the difference in power between the 2016 and 2017 models. 

Also, remember the batteries don't last forever.  When they're gone, they're gone.  The price of replacing them is rather prohibitive (unless you've got one of the FX bikes).  To me, THOSE are the downsides of the "Used Zero Market."
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

BrianTRice

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 05:39:09 AM »

Relevant write-up on the wiki (my doing): http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Potential_Buyers_Guide#Used

I also sat in on a Motorcycles And Misfits podcast and answered this question roughly for people looking for used Zero's.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

Shadow

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2017, 08:48:45 AM »

Relevant write-up on the wiki (my doing): http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Potential_Buyers_Guide#Used

I also sat in on a Motorcycles And Misfits podcast and answered this question roughly for people looking for used Zero's.

Nice... feet.  (Motorcycles & Misfits)    is that the episode #162 at about 36 minutes in?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 09:24:34 AM by Shadow »
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NEW2elec

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2017, 09:38:02 AM »

Lets see Brian good advise as always.
Fred also true, to a point, for the record I wouldn't point anyone who isn't looking for a project bike to a 12 or older.  Terry put over 75k on his 12 but his has little in common with a stock 2012 Zero at this point.
Remember Zero stated that even 13 bikes should do 300,000 miles before the battery reach a max 80% SOC even if that was under best conditions (which it surely was) cut it in half and you should out last most any ICE bike.
To be sure each year has been an improvement over the year before to Zero's credit but 13s and later fill most people's needs.
Everyone's money situation is different most people on here I would say are mid to high six figure earners. But most of the population "aint even close to that" and when they go to look at bikes I wish they could see some older cheaper electric bikes and give them a try and not be scared of what they are getting into.
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Richard230

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2017, 08:59:24 PM »

While my daughter's 2012S is running just fine, it does suffer from parts falling off of the rear of the chassis, such as the rear fairing cover and the entire tail light assembly, along with the "tank" cover plastic fasteners popping off occasionally. You do have to keep up with chassis repairs on that bike.  Fortunately her husband loves to bodge-up stuff and the rear of her bike is supported by heavy metal straps and extra bolts and screws.   :o  I don't know how long the motor and battery will last on that bike, but I am sure that they will outlast the chassis.   ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Justin Andrews

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2017, 05:02:02 PM »

I'd be more concerned about the suspension on the older bikes, than the battery.
Indeed a consideration I took into account when I upgraded to the 2015, was that the 15's used Showa forks, which are easier to repair and replace than the Fastace ones.
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ChainGun

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2017, 05:17:49 PM »

...how quickly battery technology has been advancing

How quickly is it advancing? I've been following Zero for two years now and riding a Zero S for the past 16 months and I don't see any breakthrough in range or battery capacity since I've started taking interest in electrical motorcycles. What am I missing?
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Justin Andrews

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2017, 06:15:48 PM »

...how quickly battery technology has been advancing

How quickly is it advancing? I've been following Zero for two years now and riding a Zero S for the past 16 months and I don't see any breakthrough in range or battery capacity since I've started taking interest in electrical motorcycles. What am I missing?

You need to expand your time frame over a couple more years, in the last 5-7 years the rate of advancement in battery technology has been pretty impressive, and over the last 10-15 years it's been astounding.
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ChainGun

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Re: The current state and furture of the used Zero market.
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 01:49:08 PM »

You need to expand your time frame over a couple more years, in the last 5-7 years the rate of advancement in battery technology has been pretty impressive, and over the last 10-15 years it's been astounding.

I completely agree but for 2015+ models, I don't the progress is relevant since it seems the industry has reached a plateau in terms of capacity/range. I hope to be surprised, of course, but IMHO the changes in recent models was negligible compared to 2015 models. 
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