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[Justin Andrews]

I'm a recent addition to this forum and so perhaps I've missed some important history here. @JBC444 What are you even going on about?

Who wants to lay bets on JBC444 being a Paid Troll...

[JBC444]

that gave me a big smile and was a better illustration of my point than I could have made.  Thank you!  Where do I pick up my check??

I'll try to get one of our interns to reply to some of the intelligent points.  Happy riding.

[Shadow]

@Justin Andrews not helping.

I don't have any intention of disrupting the discussion but I can't even follow what that discussion is. The topic says a review of a Zero S 6.5 but now there is some weirdness going on and there isn't a clear idea other than "hand-waving" and for what I can't figure out.

[Doug S]

I, for one, would love to see this thread put out of my misery. I haven't seen one interesting thing come out of it, but I keep logging on and seeing it's come back from the dead yet again.

[Adan]

The word "cult" is being used far too loosely here.  I don't know how someone can read this forum and conclude there is a "cult" at work.  The folks who regularly post here tend to be a very savvy and critical bunch.  I see none of the irrationality or abdication of critical reasoning that one normally associates with cult behavior (and which, just in case anyone needs an example, is so prominently on display in the current political state of this country).

My Zero is incredibly useful to me.  It does what I ask of it far better than a car, and ICE bike, or a scooter could.  It's ugly and devoid of personality.  There's nothing but rationality in my choice to ride it.  Nothing could be further from cult behavior.

[Adan]

I'll try to get one of our interns to reply to some of the intelligent points.

Yes, preferably one who has never ridden a motorcycle.  That would really elevate the entertainment value of this thread.

[MostlyBonkers]

The word "cult" is being used far too loosely here.  I don't know how someone can read this forum and conclude there is a "cult" at work.  The folks who regularly post here tend to be a very savvy and critical bunch.  I see none of the irrationality or abdication of critical reasoning that one normally associates with cult behavior (and which, just in case anyone needs an example, is so prominently on display in the current political state of this country).

My Zero is incredibly useful to me.  It does what I ask of it far better than a car, and ICE bike, or a scooter could.  It's ugly and devoid of personality.  There's nothing but rationality in my choice to ride it.  Nothing could be further from cult behavior.

Well said. I should have chosen a different username for this forum...

[JaimeC]

The word "cult" is being used far too loosely here.  I don't know how someone can read this forum and conclude there is a "cult" at work.  The folks who regularly post here tend to be a very savvy and critical bunch.  I see none of the irrationality or abdication of critical reasoning that one normally associates with cult behavior (and which, just in case anyone needs an example, is so prominently on display in the current political state of this country).

My Zero is incredibly useful to me.  It does what I ask of it far better than a car, and ICE bike, or a scooter could.  It's ugly and devoid of personality.  There's nothing but rationality in my choice to ride it.  Nothing could be further from cult behavior.

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter.  I was looking for a "tool" to address a particular situation.  That situation was a 34 mile round trip commute on mostly highways.  Since I don't live near any other co-workers and my hours fluctuate based on my workload, car-pooling was impractical.  I could use my ICE motorcycles to take the HOV lanes bypassing much of the traffic, but that was putting a lot of wear and tear on them and despite the savings in fuel, the maintenance costs more than made up for whatever I saved in gasoline (ICE motorcycles are far more maintenance intensive than modern automobiles).

Electric and hybrid automobiles (which would also allow me to use the HOV lanes) are prohibitively expensive compared to their ICE brethren.  Although the Zero is more expensive than a similarly-performing ICE bike, it also cost FAR FAR less than an electric or hybrid automobile.  Plus, I find two wheels far more satisfying to ride than four.

I needed a bike that could easily maintain 70 miles an hour (the bare minimum to keep up with traffic on our "55 mph" highway), do the 34 miles round trip commute and still have enough in reserve to let me go out to eat at lunch time.

I did EXHAUSTIVE research and the absolute best "tool" I could find for my situation was the 2016 Zero S currently sitting in my garage plugged in and charging.  Almost 90% of the electricity I use year-round are produced by the solar panels on my roof, so I get to have fun on my daily commute AND feel smugly satisfied doing it.

[Adan]

I'm about to add a Moto Guzzi to my garage.  Happy to admit cult behavior when I'm in fact guilty of it.

[Justin Andrews]

@Justin Andrews not helping.

I don't have any intention of disrupting the discussion but I can't even follow what that discussion is. The topic says a review of a Zero S 6.5 but now there is some weirdness going on and there isn't a clear idea other than "hand-waving" and for what I can't figure out.

Sorry, he called me a cultist, so at this point he opened himself up to get both barrels.

[domingo3]

Our venture group never had any interest in investing in Zero, although they did seem to think so...  We simply used Zero, along with some other domestic and international electrics, as a part of a case study for our internal publication. 

Does this make sense to anyone?  I'm not anywhere close to being a venture capitalist, but I really, really don't understand why an inexperienced motorcycle rider would BUY a Zero S in the name of research.  Everything he concluded could have been done by reading some professional reviews, browsing the forums and sending an Email to Zero.

[NEW2elec]

Classic scam technique.  "I have a great deal of money that I'm looking to give to a worthy cause"
Now I'm going to question you and insult you and you'll grovel trying to get my money.  In the end they get caught and act like the people missed out on a lot of money by not giving the scammer what they wanted.  In the old days we'd tar and feather them, now they stay on the internet and out of reach.
For me the thread was good for expressing what people like and don't like about their bikes so not a complete loss.

[Richard230]

Our venture group never had any interest in investing in Zero, although they did seem to think so...  We simply used Zero, along with some other domestic and international electrics, as a part of a case study for our internal publication. 

Does this make sense to anyone?  I'm not anywhere close to being a venture capitalist, but I really, really don't understand why an inexperienced motorcycle rider would BUY a Zero S in the name of research.  Everything he concluded could have been done by reading some professional reviews, browsing the forums and sending an Email to Zero.

My guess is that this thread makes the purchase of a Zero a "business expense" deduction on his IRS return.   

[ctrlburn]

This forum isn't 'owned' by Zero - of course it is 'monitored' by Zero. The staff clearly identify themselves.  "Hi Guys!"
I'm sure the employees have similar restrictions on posting that I've experienced on my work related forums.

Like this thread - It is a "review"... Zero employees are most likely specifically not allowed to rebuke reviews.
Also no disclosing "trade secrets". So nothing not already published by the company.  (which is sparse)
And no favoritism.

So it isn't that the goals and efforts are "unknown" it is far more likely they are "not for public disclosure", it might surprise how many restrictions can arrive with instrumental funding or be imposed by current or prospective suppliers, dealership agreements or statutes or be construed out of the same. In an industry under the microscope.

Forums and Email and even print are complicated communication formats. I suppose "444" should have bought earlier and gone to the owner "10th anniversary reunion" at the factory to get concerns more interactively addressed.

Like many I've made a pilgrimage to the factory and comparing that to the email or telephone communications I found in person is the best opportunity to have someone go "off script" or notice in body language when they are pressed into a non-disclosure area or something they haven't even gotten answers to themselves.  Warm? Yes Friendly? Yes  Would I go again? Yes.   

If Zero had "no plan" we'd see a myriad range of feedback by emails and on forums by employees.   We don't - we have a very consistent response. Zero employees have their roles (and their scripts) and when we ask a question outside those parameters we get crickets until a non-employee gets us an answer.

I'll say what I posted before  - Customer service is "weird" as it doesn't quite fit what I've experienced before. But it is not unpalatable.

[buutvrij for life]

Wow, this turns out to be a pretty weird thread.
I've got the feeling that some peoples had their feelings hurt about Zero, maybe also because the intentions of the OP remain unclear (despite explaining who he is)

I would like to make some points regarding the conversation with the OP/his view on Zero's reason for existence.
I (Joe average with a minor +) paid the full european price for my DS '15. It's mine. (Zero's are more expensive over here)
No government incentives or subsidy here. The bike is my only and main transportation for commuting and errands 7 days a week.
Last year took less than € 100,- to keep the bike on the road for 12.000 km's. That's including assurance (cheapest possible) and powerbill for charging. (do have solarroof)
So after purchase, it's incredible cheap to run. Cheaper by far than taking public transportation or having a 30 mile per our moped, used in large part's of the world.

I am also wandering how many investment groups would cue up in line for EV industry if we (the world) would stop subsidies and government incentives/tax avoidance for big oil, and start paying the real price for a gallon/liter. Last year, my government gave the oil industrie close to 7 billion euro's. How much did GM receive just before it went bankrupt? How much will Trump donate this year to his old school friends..?

Lastly, Volkwagen sold close to 10 million cars in 2016. The quality of their products is poor (not even talking about dieselgate)
The aftersale and warrantyservice is VERY poor known in the EU, especially in the Netherlands. Still a lot of people buy these cars.

Is Zero flawless? No. Is there a market for the way Zero operates? I think yes. Do they have to improve things? Yes.