ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • May 26, 2017, 09:30:13 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Opportunity for Entry Level Trials?  (Read 532 times)

seavoyage

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Opportunity for Entry Level Trials?
« on: December 25, 2016, 08:55:52 AM »

The Donor:

Found the Tenaci-Wong TW200S Trials bike in Qingdong, China. I'm curious on retaining the chassis components but replacing the 200cc IC engine with a 48v electric motor and a 22Ah Litium-Ion powerpack.

Any advice on the viability or technology approach to prototype is greatly appreciated.  If we are successful on the Minimal Viable Product (MVP) we will consider production and commercialization. Initial discussions on financial feasibility and venture funding are on a following post.

Original Post: http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/tenaci-wong-tw200s.1194012/



EM
http://emmoto.com/ sources their Electric Motor and Batteries from Golden Motors in China. The weight seems similar at 73kg / Sport = 70kg.

The frame design looks like it's been taken from a GasGas E4822 so it may just fit.
 
Xispa sourced their components from China for assembly in Spain. It is doubtful if Xispa AKA XPA would have survived the judicial demand regarding Intellectual Property on the motor launched by SHERCO. No such issue with an electric powered vehicle.

We assume that the electric motor and batteries may be less costly in China? Maybe cannibalize most of the drive components from an electric scooter made-in-China.

From the original post:

(Translated from Spanish) http://todotrial.com/es/pruebas/novedades/item/4989-tenaci-wong-tw200s-la-trialera-china.html

The Tenaci Wong TW200S, a trial bike made in China, has just been presented at the motorcycle show in China, which aims to facilitate the introduction of this sport in the Asian country at a reduced cost...

This bike can mean great expansion opportunities for the sport of the trial, taking into account the enormous size and population of the Asian country, as well as the future opening of new markets for all manufacturers. Definitely good news.







(Translated from Mandarin):http://www.mototrial.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=235 (出处: 攀爬一族)

The TENACI-WONG Turner race climbing motorcycle, first developed by the Chinese people, was unveiled at the China International Motorcycle Exposition (Chongqing Motorboat Expo),...















Disclaimer: I'm not commercially affiliated with any of these strangers...

Inquiries:
Chief Technical Advisor: Wang Zemin: +86 13700752492
Hairy/Maomao: +86 15690729789

Chongqing Wanlijiangfa Sprocket Co., Ltd.

Lily Xun 外贸经理
Tel:    +86 023-86991302/17
Fax:    +86 023-86991315
Email:    sales@wljf.cn
Address:    NO. 28-1, Jinzhu Industry Zone,Banan District, Chongqing, China, 401320

Purchase via Chongqing Zhengao Machinery Co., Ltd. http://www.made-in-china.com/sendInquiry/prod_PvrEzmuKsHcl_wejJyPTEgxli.html?from=shrom&type=cs&style=1&page=p_detail
Harry Shao
Tel: +86 13527363405
Mobile:+86 13527363405

« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 05:18:35 AM by seavoyage »
Logged

seavoyage

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Opportunity for Entry Level Trials?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2016, 04:41:17 AM »

The Artificial Heart Transplant:

If we retain the Tenaci-Wong chassis can we replace the IC engine (Lifan 200cc @ 30kg: $200) with an 48v 5KW electric motor (Golden Motor BLDC @ 11kg: $376) plus 48v 20Ah Battery (12kg: $655)  and keep the cost under $3000?

Electric Motion weight seems similar at 73kg / Sport = 70kg. EM uses a HPM5000 model 5Kw motor sourced from Golden Motors (China).



The GasGas E4822 (at 63kg) alternative marketed by eta-motors developed by MRT Energy and Techair: Looks like the same frame design...the eta-motors conversion kit might be a direct fit.
 
    6-speed gearbox

Lithium Ion Battery (Ouch!): Prius batteries are a less costly option as they were mass produced.

Here's the eta-motors pack:



Maybe research the Alta Redshift motor or Zero Technology or the EVdrive conversion kit.

The Lightningbolt Big-Block may be a good option.:

Electric Bike wrote an excellent review: https://www.electricbike.com/lightning-rods-big-block/

In context of the cost of such as project: On a previous ketch sailboat I owned, I replaced the Diesel engine with a electric motor conversion sourced from a used forklift. The challenge (cost) is in reducing the weight.

The basic shopping list:
Wiring diagram:


Maybe a solid business opportunity?

In the Xispa context, the business may have been impacted by judicial demand against XISPA on the part of SHERCO regarding Intellectual Property on the motor. No such issue with an electric powered vehicle.

The electric motor and batteries may be less costly in China? Maybe cannibalize most of the drive components from an electric vehicle made in Shenzhen or Chongqing.

What's this ventures probability of sinking $20M to arbitrage $200M in value...Track what Alta is attempting. It's not like Alta AKA BRD Motors $1.8M seed round and follow-on growth funding to $13M plus $2M in debt funding is particularly impressive for a Chinese VC . But it may be an entry point to the $100B Electric Vehicle market driven by Tesla ($2.37B).

You'd have a significant competitive advantage on production cost if it was off-shored and assembled in places like Vietnam... you're cost would be a 10th of what the Alta Redshift guys are incurring in Brisbane CA. That may reduce their initial investment from $20M down to $2M yet still pursue the same revenue opportunity.

Target the EnduroCross, Extreme Enduro, Cross Training crowd by appealing to improving their skills with a 'Backyard Training Aid' that won't wake the neighbours, and getting more seat time even if in your bedroom.

Through minimal seat and lighting/signals/horn so the mass market (outside of the US DOT) can use on the street.

https://youtu.be/0w-VzkZM93s Not bad for EM drives sourced from Golden Motors (China).

Distribute it priced under $2499 at your local PepBoys or Harbor Freight.

Would this be a business or a hobby?

Things to ponder...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 07:15:14 AM by seavoyage »
Logged

seavoyage

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Alternatives
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2016, 08:36:29 AM »

The Alternatives: at half the weight

Bultaco Brinco


Kuberg Free-Rider


LMX


Denali TorkAtak
More: Denali

Electric Moto Blade


Oset 24.0

Build

More info found on: http://electrictrials.com/forum/index.php and http://electrictrials.com/forum/index.php

If we deviate and look at what's currently in China, we discover that the EV boom in eBikes is 'fueled' by mass produced Hub motors like the Crystalyte.  Here are a few samples that come in between $800 and $1300:

Luna markets this frame kit sourced from Enduro Electric or Ncyclebike in China:




video: https://youtu.be/lircYg7XuMc

Other variations from:

Vector ($6500)

Qulbix (€3500 Rolling Chassis + €427 hub motor)
Here's an example of a QulBix Raptor Q76R build with a mid-drive:


or

Stealth ($9500) powered by Crystalyte HS3540 Hub Motor. More info on Crystalyte. https://www.electricbike.com/crystalyte-hub-motor/

Cyclurba.fr and Endless sphere have threads on a Cromoto hub motor build.

Hub motors result in significant unsprung weight. A mid drive option may be preferred with the Bafang in Suzhou, China; GNG from Hong Kong provides a mid-drive kit. Cyclone from Taiwan is another alternative. Electricbike Forum has a extensive Knowledge Base on these different Mid Drives.

Here's the BYU S option $1300


The Chassis (Suspension and Tyres):

Electric Bike wheel article

Wheels and Tyre combination:

26" Bicycle vs. 19" Motorcycle Front tyres Endless-Sphere thread
24" Bicycle  vs 18" Motorcycle Rear Tyres

Moped Rims/Tyres:

[url=http://www.veerubber.co.uk/off-road/vrm308-trial/]Vee Rubber VRM308
vs Shinko SR241

Kuberg runs 20" Maxxis Creepy Crawler Trials tires, while the Bultaco Brinco uses Duro Razorback DH 24"x 3.0" tires. Due to the shortage of Duro Razorbacks LMX runs the Halo Contra. Qulbix offers a 19" Mitas C-19 70/100 for a rear tire.

Internal Gear Hubs (IGH) or CVT
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 10:17:23 AM by seavoyage »
Logged
Pages: [1]