ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • February 18, 2018, 01:52:00 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Cold weather range question  (Read 1540 times)

JaimeC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 518
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Cold weather range question
« on: November 25, 2016, 10:35:46 PM »

Math was NEVER a strong subject, and "Electrical Engineering" never even figured on my radar, but I'm hoping someone here can give me an idea.

I have a 2016 S model with the 13kWh battery.  I know colder weather reduces the range on the bike to begin with, but I'm wondering how much more it would be reduced if I ran an electric vest?

Some details:
1)  My commute is 34 miles round trip, mostly on the highway.  On the highway, I put the bike into "ECO" mode and just hold the "throttle" wide open to never exceed 70 mph.  I'd say my route is 30 miles highway, four miles surface streets.  Off the highway, I flip back to "Custom" mode which gives me full torque, and 100% regen on throttle-off.

2) On the highway, I flatten myself down as much as I can force my 59 year old body to get as much of myself behind the little commuter screen.

3) I have an Aerostich Kanetsu Air-vantage electric vest.  According to Aerostich, that vest draws 3 amps.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.
Logged
2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

BrianTRice

  • Unofficial Zero Manual Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2375
  • Nerdy Adventurer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2016, 01:04:41 AM »

Easy! Electric loads like this don't make a dent unless you ride very slowly or leave them on while the bike isn't running.

3A * 12V = 36W. You go through a charge in let's say 1 hour which is 11.4kW given the 11.4kWh nominal capacity.

In one hour, 36W consumes 36Wh which is 0.3% of 11400Wh the motor uses.

So, no big deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

JaimeC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 518
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2016, 02:16:29 AM »

Perfect, that's what I needed to know.  :)
Logged
2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

wijnand71

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2016, 05:05:49 PM »

Talking about cold weather, this is my first winter with my zero and I'm really suprised how good my battery is performing. Now morning temperatures are reaching the freezing point and suprisingly my range is not very much changed. Maybe a few km's. Really great. Still drive style is more range demanding than temperature..
Logged

Erasmo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
    • View Profile
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2016, 08:28:03 PM »

And of course no hassling with a choke or waiting until you're oil is warm, just turn the key and go.
Logged

JaimeC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 518
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2016, 10:44:24 PM »

And of course no hassling with a choke or waiting until you're oil is warm, just turn the key and go.

In fairness, THAT issue was resolved decades ago with the invention of fuel injection.  Every bike I've owned since my 1985 BMW K100 was basically "Turn the key, hit the button and go."  Only caveat was ride it "gently" the first few miles until the oil, suspension fluids and tire carcasses came up to temperature.

By the way, the "suspension fluids and tire carcasses" thing is STILL a concern with a Zero.  You may not have engine oil to worry about, but you should still wait a few miles before "getting on it."
Logged
2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

BrianTRice

  • Unofficial Zero Manual Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2375
  • Nerdy Adventurer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2016, 01:14:02 AM »

Talking about cold weather, this is my first winter with my zero and I'm really suprised how good my battery is performing. Now morning temperatures are reaching the freezing point and suprisingly my range is not very much changed. Maybe a few km's. Really great. Still drive style is more range demanding than temperature..

If your vehicle is stored indoors overnight, maybe the battery just has a reasonable starting temperature and stays warm from internal resistance while riding.

While I rode/lived in Seattle, my 13DS did lose range in winters (no more than 10%, but the 13's battery gauge is crude) but I suspect that was mostly from the dampness in the air (rain and fog) being too effective at cooling everything, myself included.

I'm considering keeping an insulating wrap of perhaps neoprene and in inner liner to handle touring in cold weather, inspired by the Aerostich FX battery cozy, just to keep air and moisture deflected while riding.
Logged
Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

nevetsyad

  • Ex-Zero Advocate
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2016, 12:26:28 AM »

I had an odd issue a few weeks ago riding home with my 2015 SR. I was unable to keep up with traffic after 5 or so miles, it slowed to probably 70MPH when I was giving it full throttle. Still had 70% battery, it was in the 30s out, I presume the wind chill and all was too much so it restricted power output? Never seen that in my two years of Zero riding.
Logged
2015 Zero SR (4+ months in the shop), 2016 Zero S (Random freeway shutdown, heading to shop soon)

Cama

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2016, 03:07:10 AM »

Maybe to cold for full power?

Logged
ZERO SR 2016

wijnand71

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2016, 03:45:30 AM »

Quote

If your vehicle is stored indoors overnight, maybe the battery just has a reasonable starting temperature and stays warm from internal resistance while riding.

No, My bike is just sitting outside, under a good cover and connected to the mains power. When I jumped on it this morning it was literally freezing, and a white layer of frost was covering the cover. I really cannot say it is performing less than in summertime. Its really performing well in the cold, plenty of power and no speed reduction. I also have still have the same range percentage left (54%) when I am arriving at my workspace as in summertime :-)
Logged

Cama

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2016, 12:59:34 PM »

... When I jumped on it this morning it was literally freezing, and a white layer of frost was covering the cover. I really cannot say it is performing less than in summertime. Its really performing well in the cold, plenty of power and no speed reduction. ...

Temperature around freezing and no speed reduction?

When the temperature is around the freezing point my 2016 SR reduces the top speed to something by 141...145 km/h.

I thought that is normal. The manual says so (7.15).

Logged
ZERO SR 2016

wijnand71

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2016, 02:33:33 PM »

Ah, I'm always in ECO mode, so max speed is 115km/h.. Maybe thats why
But still.. I'm very surprised about the cold weather performance of the battery, in terms of range..
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 02:35:26 PM by wijnand71 »
Logged

Electric Terry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2016, 03:00:46 PM »

... When I jumped on it this morning it was literally freezing, and a white layer of frost was covering the cover. I really cannot say it is performing less than in summertime. Its really performing well in the cold, plenty of power and no speed reduction. ...

Temperature around freezing and no speed reduction?

When the temperature is around the freezing point my 2016 SR reduces the top speed to something by 141...145 km/h.

I thought that is normal. The manual says so (7.15).


If you ride hard and fast when it is fresh off the charger you can heat the battery to where there is no power reduction.

The warmer and higher SOC you're at the more power the battery can put out.  If its very cold the battery will lose its ability to put out full power as the state of charge drops low.
Logged
100,000+ all electric miles on Zero Motorcycles - 75,000+ on a 2012 Zero S and 35,000+ miles on a 2015 Zero SR
http://www.facebook.com/electricterry
http://instagram.com/electricterry
https://twitter.com/electricterry

Cama

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2016, 05:33:46 PM »

Thanks,

nice to know.
Logged
ZERO SR 2016

JaimeC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 518
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Cold weather range question
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2016, 06:07:10 PM »

If you ride hard and fast when it is fresh off the charger you can heat the battery to where there is no power reduction.

The warmer and higher SOC you're at the more power the battery can put out.  If its very cold the battery will lose its ability to put out full power as the state of charge drops low.

Good to know.  So conceivably, I could park the bike at the office (where I have no place to plug in) and discover at the end of the day that I have less range than I THOUGHT when I initially parked it...
Logged
2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else
Pages: [1] 2 3