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Author Topic: Is this the glitch?  (Read 725 times)

Richard230

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Is this the glitch?
« on: October 11, 2016, 08:16:34 PM »

I was visiting my daughter yesterday, who currently rides my old 2012 S, and she was complaining about the bike randomly jerking violently at times while she is riding it. If she stops and turns the ignition off and back on the problem goes away for the rest of the ride. That bike never suffered the "glitch" when I owned it and it had the recall fix for the glitch performed at the factory three years ago.  So I took the bike out for a 50-mile ride and it ran perfectly.  But she is still concerned that the shuddering and shaking may return at any time.

Could this be the "glitch" returning or something else?  Any thoughts?  She is paying for her daughter's college education expenses right now and I am hoping that fixing this problem will not involve something expensive like replacing the motor.  The fact that it seems to be random and only occurs occasionally, seems odd. ??? The Zero is never ridden in the rain and (from the looks of the bike) has never been washed, either. So moisture shouldn't be the problem.   ::)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

centra12

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2016, 08:59:44 PM »

The same problem I had
With me the action was carried out, but only the Sevcon software was renewed
The problem with the inferior encoder remains. :o
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Justin Andrews

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2016, 10:06:39 PM »

I was visiting my daughter yesterday, who currently rides my old 2012 S, and she was complaining about the bike randomly jerking violently at times while she is riding it. If she stops and turns the ignition off and back on the problem goes away for the rest of the ride. That bike never suffered the "glitch" when I owned it and it had the recall fix for the glitch performed at the factory three years ago.  So I took the bike out for a 50-mile ride and it ran perfectly.  But she is still concerned that the shuddering and shaking may return at any time.

Could this be the "glitch" returning or something else?  Any thoughts?  She is paying for her daughter's college education expenses right now and I am hoping that fixing this problem will not involve something expensive like replacing the motor.  The fact that it seems to be random and only occurs occasionally, seems odd. ??? The Zero is never ridden in the rain and (from the looks of the bike) has never been washed, either. So moisture shouldn't be the problem.   ::)

As I remember the glitch.
Yes, it would jerk at random, if it got really bad the motor would then cut out (I think the controller actually goes into a safe mode and pulls the contactor)

It sounds like the glitch, which I think is actually the encoder drifting.
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ColoPaul

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 02:14:18 AM »

I remember "the glitch" being a complete power cutoff, which could only be resolved by turning power on/off.
"Randomly jerking at times" could be something else, like an intermittent somewhere (for example the kickstand sensor - perhaps the observation about cycling the ignition is coincidental, or perhaps pulling over to cycle the ignition temporarily fixes the intermittent).
Or perhaps it's just another manifestation of "the glitch".

Did she see any error codes on the display when this occurred?  Can you pull the logs?
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Richard230

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 03:57:11 AM »

I remember "the glitch" being a complete power cutoff, which could only be resolved by turning power on/off.
"Randomly jerking at times" could be something else, like an intermittent somewhere (for example the kickstand sensor - perhaps the observation about cycling the ignition is coincidental, or perhaps pulling over to cycle the ignition temporarily fixes the intermittent).
Or perhaps it's just another manifestation of "the glitch".

Did she see any error codes on the display when this occurred?  Can you pull the logs?

No error codes showed on the dash.  ??? I don't think the 2012 models allow the owner to access logs.  ???   I need to ask her if it happens when she hits bumps.  Perhaps it is a interlock malfunctioning. I hope it isn't the encoder on the motor going bad and I sure hope the inside of the motor doesn't look like a pumpkin pie covered with whipped cream, as shown in the photos above.   ::)  Especially as I baked a pumpkin pie this afternoon just so I could cover it with whipping cream.   :)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

SunPropulsion

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2016, 08:41:10 AM »

That"s what my bike was doing, rapidly slowing down, then it would take off again.  Oddly it usually happened at about the same place 4 miles from my home. Sometimes it wouldn't take off from a start, I had to like "pop start it"  roll it forward a bit and it would go.
  Zero techs couldn't make the problem completely go away so they did the 2013/2014 motor swap under warranty, no more "glitch" but now it overheats at 65 mph with the new sealed motor.   
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Richard230

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2016, 08:10:21 PM »

I have a feeling that the best way to solve this problem, if it becomes too frequent, is for me to buy a new 2017 Zero and give my 2014 S to my daughter, as I did with my 2012 bike when I bought my current one.  ;) Then all she has to do is to sell that glitchy bike to someone who knows just enough to fix or live with the issue.   ::)  After all, she was able to sell my old 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S and it didn't even run as the batteries and BMS were toast.   :)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

evdjerome

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2016, 04:19:08 AM »

Sounds like a brilliant idea Richard. Looking forward to your posts about the 2017.

I have a feeling that the best way to solve this problem, if it becomes too frequent, is for me to buy a new 2017 Zero and give my 2014 S to my daughter, as I did with my 2012 bike when I bought my current one.  ;) Then all she has to do is to sell that glitchy bike to someone who knows just enough to fix or live with the issue.   ::)  After all, she was able to sell my old 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S and it didn't even run as the batteries and BMS were toast.   :)
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zap mc

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2017, 02:55:43 PM »

Interesting to note that even after the factory did a warranty recall on the glitch it came back. I would suggest that the original " repair " was not fit for purpose and should be redone for you free. Zero should stand by their products.
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Richard230

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2017, 08:41:13 PM »

Interesting to note that even after the factory did a warranty recall on the glitch it came back. I would suggest that the original " repair " was not fit for purpose and should be redone for you free. Zero should stand by their products.

This "glitch" only seems to occur when the bike is running full throttle at freeway speeds, uphill.  It does not happen at lower speeds and under less stress.  Plus, the semi-stalling only happened a couple of times during a year of riding and it never happened to me while I was test riding the bike.  This leads me to believe that the problem is not the original 'glitch", where the encoder synchronization was slipping, but rather something to do with either the motor or the battery pack overheating, or the BMS being oversensitive about full-throttle running stress and cutting back the power abruptly - leading to something of a panic attack by the rider.  ???
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Electric Cowboy

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2017, 03:33:33 AM »

Yes. And there is a motor upgrade for the 2012 models.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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SunPropulsion

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2017, 06:18:46 AM »

Richard,  if Zero offers you a motor swap to the 2013/2014 sealed motor, make sure you test drive it at speed to check for overheating issues after the work is done.  My bike got a motor swap, the glitch is gone but the bike overheats within a couple minutes at a speed over 65 mph
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Richard230

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2017, 07:29:16 AM »

Richard,  if Zero offers you a motor swap to the 2013/2014 sealed motor, make sure you test drive it at speed to check for overheating issues after the work is done.  My bike got a motor swap, the glitch is gone but the bike overheats within a couple minutes at a speed over 65 mph

The bike is owned by my daughter, not me.  Since she only experiences the problem a couple of times a year, it hardly seems to be worth trying to replace the motor.  Besides, that might not be the problem.  The glitch might be in the bike's computer programing and not the motor.   ???
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Electric Cowboy

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Re: Is this the glitch?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2017, 12:24:13 PM »

Richard,  if Zero offers you a motor swap to the 2013/2014 sealed motor, make sure you test drive it at speed to check for overheating issues after the work is done.  My bike got a motor swap, the glitch is gone but the bike overheats within a couple minutes at a speed over 65 mph

Thats probably the size 4 controller.
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