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Author Topic: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS  (Read 986 times)

tamjam

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New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« on: September 29, 2016, 09:08:29 PM »

I've always been intrigued by Zero motorcycles and finally had an opportunity to test ride one last weekend, and of course now I am completely hooked. I rode a 2016 DSR at my local dealer. Initially I kept it in ECO mode but quickly switched to SPORT once I got a feel for the throttle control. Loved it. Incredible sensation compared to riding my ICE bike (2011 Triumph Tiger 800). Now I am just trying to figure out whether to buy the DSR demo or a 2015 DS that's never been titled. The Tiger will need to go either way so the Zero will be my only bike.

The dealer worked up two quotes for me and the delta between the two is nearly $4k. I don't think he can do any better on either one. Both are eligible for the Federal tax credit as well as my local CA rebate. I haven't ridden the DS yet, but aside from less power and torque and slightly lower range (90 combined vs 95 combined @ 70mph highway), the only difference on the spec sheets between the two models and model years is the 660 amp controller vs the 420 amp controller. I am not sure I "need" the extra power the DSR offers, but it sure was fun.

I know that whether the extra power the DSR has is worth it is only something I can answer for myself, so I guess what I'm looking for input on is are there any real world differences between the two models or model years that I should be considering? Are the ranges that Zero lists on the spec sheets equally accurate for each model? It seems the changes between the two model years were evolutionary, not revolutionary.

Or do I wait and see what they come up with for 2017....

Thanks for your time everyone, and I hope to join your ranks soon with my own Zero.
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2016 DSR

DPsSRnSD

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 09:21:52 PM »

IMO, get the 2016 or, if you can wait, see what comes out for next year. How much of a deal are you getting over a retail 2016 DSR? Maybe you don't want to pass that up, no matter what 2017 offers. I suggest the 2016 because I read less about them on this forum, which is a good thing. You will want the significantly extra power and torque the DSR offers to wean you from the Triumph.
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2016 Zero SR

stevenh

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 09:24:05 PM »

4K is a big delta, but I think the new motor and controller in the '16 may be worth it.  I have a 16 DSR and really love it.  The older motors would get hot at highway speed in some cases (>70 in hot weather).  The new motors seem to stay much cooler (in my case anyway).  Hopefully a 15 DS owner can chime in.  For me I picked the DSR since it "fit" my body and riding style better (more upright and a little wider than the DS).

Good luck in your decision.  Either way, you'll like it!

Steve
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2016 DSR

tamjam

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 09:44:22 PM »

Thanks for the replies so far folks. I have read about the overheating issues but wasn't aware that the 2015 models experienced that, I thought it was mostly 2014 and earlier.

I can get the DSR for $13.4k plus TTL and "set-up fee" which brings it to $15.5k out the door. The DS is $11.6k out the door. Since this will be my only bike, one of my main concerns going electric is, of course, range....wondering if I can still do spirited weekend rides of 80 miles which often include stretches of 75mph freeway and some hills...so some of that $4k I "save" with the DS could be spent on a quick charger or two (I assume one or both can be mounted on the side racks?) so I can extend my rides if I am willing to stop for a while to top up the battery.
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2016 DSR

pacificcricket

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 09:49:29 PM »

I can get the DSR for $13.4k plus TTL and "set-up fee" which brings it to $15.5k out the door.

I paid $15k for '14 DS, and it doesn't qualify for any tax benefits. I would snatch a DSR for the same amount in no time :)
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JaimeC

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 10:01:08 PM »

Why not the 2016 DS?  Much less of a "price hit."

I went with the 2016 "S" for the same reason.  Also, check with your insurer because the cost of insuring an "R" model over the standard version was nearly TRIPLE here in New York State.  I didn't find the extra torque worth both the initial purchase price AND the ongoing insurance cost.

YMMV.  Some people just GOTTA have the most powerful version available.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

pacificcricket

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 10:03:39 PM »

Also, check with your insurer because the cost of insuring an "R" model over the standard version was nearly TRIPLE here in New York State.

Wow, that's a good point.
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Kocho

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2016, 10:31:34 PM »

Someone said the DSR has a different riding position/with than the DS - probably a typo, as the two are exactly the same in those respects. The DS/R are wider and taller than the S/R.

The difference b/w DSR and a '15 DS is the controller and the motor (IPM on some of the '16 models). There was also a recent recall on certain '15 models, including the DS, so check if "yours" is subject to that recall as you don't want to get it then have it spent weeks in the shop. Or maybe you do, if they lower the price...

Where do you live? I have a '15 SR and I've only got close to overheating it once - I was riding on  90F day as fast as I could pretty much, maintaining around 80 with bursts to near max speed often. And it took a few miles to get the warning light to come on, but I did not get to experience the power loss as I slowed down to normal speeds, in the 65-75mph.

I've never had am issue in my daily commute. You will only see it in sustained near 80mph on very hot days. If your commute includes that, get the '16 with IPM (not all '16 bikes have that motor, only the ones with the large battery).

As for R vs. non-R, that's up to you. I like the R much better and the non-R feels underpowered to me. If you rode the R in Sport mode and liked it, you should try the non-R too to see if it satisfies you. That's a lot of money so spend it wisely ;)

Lastly, demo bikes have shorter warranty - check carefully with Zero. Their warranty starts not on the day you buy them, but on the day they got on the floor as a demo. Or something like that - mine is a demo and I did not get the full 2 year warranty but something closer to 1.5 years.
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'15 Zero SR

tamjam

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2016, 11:21:58 PM »

Also, check with your insurer because the cost of insuring an "R" model over the standard version was nearly TRIPLE here in New York State.  I didn't find the extra torque worth both the initial purchase price AND the ongoing insurance cost.
Good suggestion, thanks. Just ran the numbers on my Geico account and it's $704/yr for the DSR and $617 for the DS (vs $625 currently for my Tiger). In other words, not an issue. I don't feel I "need" to have the most powerful available, but the year-end deal available which knocks $2,600 off the MSRP makes it that much more compelling. Plus it was a whole lot of fun.

The difference b/w DSR and a '15 DS is the controller and the motor (IPM on some of the '16 models). There was also a recent recall on certain '15 models, including the DS, so check if "yours" is subject to that recall as you don't want to get it then have it spent weeks in the shop. Or maybe you do, if they lower the price...
I read about the latest recall notice and will make a point to check that this 2015 DS is not subject to it or has been addressed already.

Where do you live?
I live in the SF Bay Area, and my commute takes me from Marin into SF and back. Generally our temps are very mild but we do get the occasional heat wave. Good to know that you only experience the warning light only under the combination of high speeds and temps. I doubt I will encounter that issue often, if at all then.

Lastly, demo bikes have shorter warranty - check carefully with Zero. Their warranty starts not on the day you buy them, but on the day they got on the floor as a demo. Or something like that - mine is a demo and I did not get the full 2 year warranty but something closer to 1.5 years.
The DSR only has 89 miles on it and I believe the warranty has most if not all of its 2 years left. This dealer hasn't had it very long. The 2015 DS has one year of warranty left w/114 miles.
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2016 DSR

acacia1731

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2016, 12:26:24 AM »

Lastly, demo bikes have shorter warranty - check carefully with Zero. Their warranty starts not on the day you buy them, but on the day they got on the floor as a demo. Or something like that - mine is a demo and I did not get the full 2 year warranty but something closer to 1.5 years.

I bought a 2015 demo, and my understanding was that I still got the full warranty time period.  Based on some quick reading, that seems to be the norm, as long as the dealer hadn't registered it yet.  If they did register it, then you'd have a shorter warranty, and you wouldn't be able to get the tax credits.

Mileage warranties (as opposed to time-based) would get shortened based on the number of miles used up during the demo period.
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2015 Zero FX (off-road setup), 2013 KTM 250SX, STACYC 16EDrive

Kocho

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2016, 12:44:21 AM »

This is what I got from Zero about the warranty of my demo bike:

"The motorcycle was a Demo motorcycle owned by one of our dealers. The warranty started on xx/yy/2015, but goes for a period of 2 years and 90 days based on the shipment date."

I don't know what "owned by a dealer" means in my case. It has not been registered before the person from whom I bought it bought it from the dealer, as far as I know. That's what a "demo bike" usually means. If it has been registered, it is "used". If someone has a free carfax or similar service and wants to send me a report, I can give you the VIN to check the history to be sure.

Lastly, demo bikes have shorter warranty - check carefully with Zero. Their warranty starts not on the day you buy them, but on the day they got on the floor as a demo. Or something like that - mine is a demo and I did not get the full 2 year warranty but something closer to 1.5 years.

I bought a 2015 demo, and my understanding was that I still got the full warranty time period.  Based on some quick reading, that seems to be the norm, as long as the dealer hadn't registered it yet.  If they did register it, then you'd have a shorter warranty, and you wouldn't be able to get the tax credits.

Mileage warranties (as opposed to time-based) would get shortened based on the number of miles used up during the demo period.
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'15 Zero SR

Electric Terry

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2016, 10:34:23 AM »

Both are great bikes.  If you are ok with trading in and upgrading bikes every 2 years or so I would say take the deal on the 2015.  You might actually want more power sooner, and upgrade as early as next year.  If you like to keep bikes for 2-3 years or longer than I would definitely suggest getting the 2016 DSR.  It has more power dense and energy dense batteries that handle heat better, as well as a motor that can do the same.  Once you get used to the power curve of the Zero bikes, you will appreciate the additional power being available to get out of sticky situations where a driver near you starts to make erratic movements.  I would always recommend an experienced rider get a bike with more power vs not for fun yes, but also as an insurance policy to have all the tools available to use at your disposal to be safe.
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MostlyBonkers

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2016, 04:47:41 PM »

I own a 2014 DS, which I love. I use it for my daily 50 mile commute and it does the job admirably. However, if you are already used to the power of a Tiger 800, I strongly recommend going for the DSR. You also want the DSR to avoid overheating issues with the motor. It's not a problem most of the time, but if you're out to have some fun and range isn't a factor, then you want the IPM motor.

The DS is still a fun bike to ride, but if I could afford it I'd have an SR our DSR in a heartbeat.
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JaimeC

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2016, 05:29:20 PM »

All of the 2016s with the 13kWh battery pack have the IPM motor.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

stevenh

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Re: New guy here trying to decide between 2016 DSR and 2015 DS
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2016, 11:28:00 PM »

Someone said the DSR has a different riding position/with than the DS - probably a typo, as the two are exactly the same in those respects. The DS/R are wider and taller than the S/R.

The difference b/w DSR and a '15 DS is the controller and the motor (IPM on some of the '16 models). There was also a recent recall on certain '15 models, including the DS, so check if "yours" is subject to that recall as you don't want to get it then have it spent weeks in the shop. Or maybe you do, if they lower the price...

Where do you live? I have a '15 SR and I've only got close to overheating it once - I was riding on  90F day as fast as I could pretty much, maintaining around 80 with bursts to near max speed often. And it took a few miles to get the warning light to come on, but I did not get to experience the power loss as I slowed down to normal speeds, in the 65-75mph.

I've never had am issue in my daily commute. You will only see it in sustained near 80mph on very hot days. If your commute includes that, get the '16 with IPM (not all '16 bikes have that motor, only the ones with the large battery).

As for R vs. non-R, that's up to you. I like the R much better and the non-R feels underpowered to me. If you rode the R in Sport mode and liked it, you should try the non-R too to see if it satisfies you. That's a lot of money so spend it wisely ;)

Lastly, demo bikes have shorter warranty - check carefully with Zero. Their warranty starts not on the day you buy them, but on the day they got on the floor as a demo. Or something like that - mine is a demo and I did not get the full 2 year warranty but something closer to 1.5 years.

You are right, sorry, I got mixed up between the DS and the SR.  The DS and DSR do have the same riding position.  My decision was between the '16 DSR and the '16 SR, I liked the DSR better.

Sorry for my confusion!

Steve
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2016 DSR
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