ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • March 29, 2024, 07:54:09 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Reversing with the key turned on  (Read 1325 times)

quixotic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
Reversing with the key turned on
« on: September 28, 2016, 08:03:45 AM »

I know that the manual states that this is a no-no, but I'm wondering just how detrimental it is to the bike. Anyone know?  (It sure would be handy to be able to do it with a clear conscience in a parking lot.)   
Logged
2013 Zero S. Isle of Man Classic TT is on the bucket list.

Electric Terry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 08:52:09 AM »

Wait what?  I haven't read the manual but I've been backing up with the bike on for about 100,000 miles now.  Never had a problem.  Can you post the section where it says this?
Logged
100,000+ all electric miles on Zero Motorcycles - 75,000+ on a 2012 Zero S and 35,000+ miles on a 2015 Zero SR
http://www.facebook.com/electricterry
http://instagram.com/electricterry
https://twitter.com/electricterry

BrianTRice@gmail.com

  • Unofficial Zero Manual Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4014
  • Nerdy Adventurer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 09:28:48 AM »

I just scanned through the 2016 manual and couldn't find this. The word "reverse" also didn't occur as a search result.

Certainly, motorcycles are not stable moving in reverse, but I haven't had a problem backing my bike down a driveway, etc, regularly for over 3 years.
Logged
Current: 2020 DSR, 2012 Suzuki V-Strom
Former: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS

jnef

  • Not so newbie
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 09:58:15 AM »

I just scanned through the 2016 manual and couldn't find this. The word "reverse" also didn't occur as a search result.

Page 2.2 in the 2016 manual:  Turn the motor stop switch OFF when backing up or pushing the motorcycle while dismounted

I haven't thought twice about going a couple feet backing up but the motor definitely resists rolling backwards. When I've had to backup uphill (I know, bad parking planning), I turn it off...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

NEW2elec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2650
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2016, 10:16:08 AM »

Interesting wording.  Almost sounds like a safety precaution for hitting the throttle while your facing backwards maybe.
But it might be with the new IPM motor does not like it.
Good catch in the manual, I know I've backed my 2013 while on with no issues that I know of.
Logged

Electric Terry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2016, 10:44:25 AM »

Ok yes, I'm reading this as a safety precaution, and not a mechanical process that could cause damage.  Probably not a bad idea, just never thought about it.  Wonder if it rolls easier with the stop switch off.  Tomorrow I'll have to see if the motor growls with the bike on, kickstand up, but run switch off.
Logged
100,000+ all electric miles on Zero Motorcycles - 75,000+ on a 2012 Zero S and 35,000+ miles on a 2015 Zero SR
http://www.facebook.com/electricterry
http://instagram.com/electricterry
https://twitter.com/electricterry

jnef

  • Not so newbie
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2016, 10:45:39 AM »

Ok yes, I'm reading this as a safety precaution, and not a mechanical process that could cause damage.  Probably not a bad idea, just never thought about it.  Wonder if it rolls easier with the stop switch off.  Tomorrow I'll have to see if the motor growls with the bike on, kickstand up, but run switch off.

Mine definitely rolls much easier with the switch off!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

grmarks

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 424
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2016, 01:49:24 PM »

The 2015 manual on page 2.2 also says the same. But I also read it as a safety thing rather than damaging the motor.
Logged

quixotic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2016, 07:30:08 PM »

Thanks everyone.  That's good to know.  I must've looked like a dork all this time, backing up from a stall, turning around slightly, then turning the key on and waiting for all the speedo lights to do their thing.
Logged
2013 Zero S. Isle of Man Classic TT is on the bucket list.

Richard230

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9471
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2016, 08:34:55 PM »

Thanks everyone.  That's good to know.  I must've looked like a dork all this time, backing up from a stall, turning around slightly, then turning the key on and waiting for all the speedo lights to do their thing.

That is what I have been doing with my 2014 S every since I owned it.  It just never felt right to me to force an electric motor to turn backwards unless it was designed to do so, like on my old 1964 Yamaha YD3, which had an electric starter that turned into a generator once the engine was started.   ;)
Logged
Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

JaimeC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1948
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2016, 10:02:01 PM »

Page 2.2 in the 2016 manual:  Turn the motor stop switch OFF when backing up or pushing the motorcycle while dismounted

Parsing that statement as the English major I was in college, this implies that if you are OFF the bike, you should turn off the key before moving the motorcycle.  As others have stated, this is a safety precaution so you don't inadvertently twist the throttle and launch the bike when you can't control it.

So it's not a TECHNICAL warning, it's a legal one to protect themselves (not your motor).
Logged
1999 BMW K1200LT
2019 Yamaha XMAX
2021 Zero SR

BrianTRice@gmail.com

  • Unofficial Zero Manual Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4014
  • Nerdy Adventurer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2016, 10:37:36 PM »

Ah, I see. Yes I'm reading that the same way JaimeC did.

There's nothing inherent about the motor that makes reversing a problem. And the Sevcon controller is made for forklifts and trucks, and can do reverse if configured to. Motorcycles in reverse are only rarely supported by an OEM and only very carefully.
Logged
Current: 2020 DSR, 2012 Suzuki V-Strom
Former: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS

mrwilsn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
  • 2014 Zero S / 2017 Zero SR
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 03:54:07 AM »

I agree this is meant to be a safety to make sure you don't blip the throttle while trying to move backwards...which is why it says to turn the stop switch to off (i.e. the red kill switch)...NOT turn the key to off position.

I have never once turned my bike off or turned the motor stop switch off in order to roll backwards...I just don't turn the throttle while I do it.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Logged
2014 Zero S

Shadow

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
  • 130,000mi electric since 2016
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2016, 06:43:49 AM »

I wish the stop/kill switch de-energized the motor for easier backing.

The resistance when backing with the key in on position is something I noticed straight away - there is no clutch and no simple direct means of disengaging additional forces on the rear wheel other than key-on / key-off, and at that it is a bit of a hassle.

Remarks I've heard in response range from "Oh, I never noticed it" to "Oh but it's not that's what a clutch is for - get a real bike!" and so on. I personally do notice it makes backing up a hill or over any obstacle much more difficult.
Logged

KrazyEd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
    • View Profile
Re: Reversing with the key turned on
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2016, 06:47:16 AM »

I thought about this today as I was backing my FX out of it's spot in garage.
With key off, it growled for the first foot or so, then was quiet. Turned key on,
ignition off, side stand down. The growl seemed to continue as long as I
went backwards.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2