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Author Topic: Finally joined the club with an FXS!  (Read 819 times)

domingo3

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Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« on: July 28, 2016, 06:55:43 AM »

Just got FXS on Monday, thanks to Hollywood Electrics.  Let's not talk about my record setting 30 seconds before dumping it powering out of a corner.   :o. I had test ridden an FXS before and found it to be super easy to ride.  A combination of overconfidence and brand new tires did me in.  Fortunately just a brake lever and tail light lens make it an easy fix.
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2016 Zero FXS

MrDude_1

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2016, 07:11:40 AM »

lol. it happens.

More often that you think.
I can tell you the worse "new bike immediate crash" story.
I watched a guy dump a new CBR 600 right infront of the dealership, and then it got run over by a truck.  he pulled out of the road turning... saw the truck coming after he started pulling out so he yanked the brake. this of course dumps the bike. as it falls he jumps out of the way and smash. new bike is now totaled.

About a month later he shows up with the  insurance money and bought a literbike. lol
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domingo3

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 07:17:24 AM »

Yeah, I've heard these stories, but chalked them up to newbies who were convinced anything less than a 600 SS was not worthwhile.  I've been riding for almost 20 years and thought since I got the little guy, it didn't need respect.  Lesson learned.
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2016 Zero FXS

Semper Why

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 07:25:15 AM »

The dealership where I did my test ride told stories. Mostly about people popping wheelies on an FXS and going ass over tea kettle during test rides.
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Shadow

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 07:28:46 AM »

If doing the repairs yourself, it would be very much appreciated to detail the process with pictures.  An http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Front_brake_lever example brake lever replacement procedure (yes that's my DSR and I'm trying to not tip it over any more times!):

Also, I can't imagine looping an FXS... yikes! I haven't managed to get the DSR to power wheelie, it's just too top heavy for the factory torque curves, yet I have done a few fishtails in Sport mode trying to turn a corner too quickly from a stop.
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MrDude_1

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 08:16:32 AM »

If doing the repairs yourself, it would be very much appreciated to detail the process with pictures.  An http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Front_brake_lever example brake lever replacement procedure (yes that's my DSR and I'm trying to not tip it over any more times!):

Also, I can't imagine looping an FXS... yikes! I haven't managed to get the DSR to power wheelie, it's just too top heavy for the factory torque curves, yet I have done a few fishtails in Sport mode trying to turn a corner too quickly from a stop.
The only way I can see someone looping an FXS is if they stood up and bounced to jerk the front up, and didnt have the rear brake covered... but given how aggressive you have to be to do it, its entirely possible. I know ive looped backwards on a few smaller dirtbikes doing wheelies, but strangely never on the big ones. I think its because you dont have to be as aggressive. to wheelie the CR500, its a mild clutch up. to wheelie a autoclutch CRF50, you have to sit back and close/wack the throttle while shifting. lol.

all that said, I can see just about anyone washing out the rear of the FXS if they're leaning forward and open while leaned over... Its sneaky because its silent.
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Doug S

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 07:07:55 PM »

When I was learning to ride, I succeeded in looping a Honda CB100 once. I was 12 years old, and I wanted to do a drag race launch. I revved the engine up very high (no tach on that bike!) and dumped the clutch. The next thing I remember, I was standing on the pavement with the bike turning a somersault in front of me, my hip sore where I'd pulled a muscle keeping myself upright as the bike jumped out from under me. "Sand on the road", I told my dad when I limped back on the battered bike.

It can be done on some pretty weak machines, if you do it right.
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acacia1731

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2016, 09:18:59 PM »

There are two scenarios I've found that will consistently flip the FX...
  • Only one battery, located in the rear slot - grab full throttle from a stand still to quickly lift the front
  • Two batteries - accelerate to ~20mph - let off momentarily - then grab and hold full throttle to slowly lift a power wheelie

With one battery, the torque seems to be highest right off the line, then starts dropping noticeably as speed increases.

I don't know why, but with two batteries it seems to have the most torque at low-medium speed, and especially right after a quick release and re-pull of the throttle.  Maybe one of the engineers on here can explain why, or maybe it's programmed that way for some reason?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 03:13:53 AM by acacia1731 »
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2015 Zero FX (off-road setup), 2013 KTM 250SX, STACYC 16EDrive

laramie LC4

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2016, 10:42:22 PM »

Let's not talk about my record setting 30 seconds before dumping it powering out of a corner.   :o. I had test ridden an FXS before and found it to be super easy to ride.  A combination of overconfidence and brand new tires did me in.  Fortunately just a brake lever and tail light lens make it an easy fix.

heheheh. i only laugh because i may know someone who did the exact same thing.  ;)

shear stupidity in my case. rolled brand new bike out the back of truck, put on helmet and gloves, head out of neighborhood. trying to get into traffic, turning left, got impatient, hit the throttle, slid like a ballplayer across the road and into the dirt. bike had less than 0.5 miles. got lucky i guess, my forearm took most of the abuse. scraped bar end, which is now covered with the handguards so no foul, and a scrape on the tip of the kick stand. nothing else but a stern reminder of the diff between dirt and street riding, and to always wear your gear.

at that point i had done over 200 miles of test rides on Zero's. i had ridden every bike in the 2016 line up, including 6 hrs as lead demo rider on a DSP in which time i cautioned every rider about doing that exact thing. i still got bit by the torque and new tires so don't feel bad.

in fact, make me feel better knowing im not the only one!  ;D

laters,

laramie  ;)

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domingo3

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 11:42:13 PM »

If doing the repairs yourself, it would be very much appreciated to detail the process with pictures.  An http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Front_brake_lever example brake lever replacement procedure (yes that's my DSR and I'm trying to not tip it over any more times!):

Also, I can't imagine looping an FXS... yikes! I haven't managed to get the DSR to power wheelie, it's just too top heavy for the factory torque curves, yet I have done a few fishtails in Sport mode trying to turn a corner too quickly from a stop.

  I just took off the old brake lever (still waiting for the new one in the mail).  It appears to be identical to what you documented for the DSR.   
   I just cracked the tail light lens, but they only sell the tail light as an assembly.  It looks to be pretty trivial to replace, but I'll try to document it so I can contribute to the project.
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2016 Zero FXS

Electric Terry

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2016, 12:29:16 AM »

I don't know why, but with two batteries it seems to have the most torque at low-medium speed, and especially right after a quick release of the throttle.  Maybe one of the engineers on here can explain why, or maybe it's programmed that way for some reason?

A single module and dual module FXS has 70 lb ft of torque
but a single module has 27 hp and a dual has 44 horsepower
At low speed you aren't using full power with either one or two modules as the RPMs are low
The faster the motor spins the more power it can deliver
There is a speed where the bike can output more than 27 hp and that is when the dual batteries allow more power
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acacia1731

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2016, 03:21:56 AM »

I don't know why, but with two batteries it seems to have the most torque at low-medium speed, and especially right after a quick release of the throttle.  Maybe one of the engineers on here can explain why, or maybe it's programmed that way for some reason?

A single module and dual module FXS has 70 lb ft of torque
but a single module has 27 hp and a dual has 44 horsepower
At low speed you aren't using full power with either one or two modules as the RPMs are low
The faster the motor spins the more power it can deliver
There is a speed where the bike can output more than 27 hp and that is when the dual batteries allow more power

That makes a lot of sense, and must explain why the two-battery FX pulls hardest from 20-50mph while the one-battery fades much sooner.

Any idea why a quick release/re-pull of the throttle allows for a burst of power?  With a ICE bike, I've always assumed that throttle blips help with wheelies because the drive train components get to spin up as slack comes out of the system, creating extra inertia that gets slammed into the rear wheel when the slack is gone.  But with the direct drive of the Zero bikes, the only slack is in the belt/chain, right?  So I am wondering if something electrical might store/releases energy when you blip?  Maybe it's related to suspension rather than power?  Maybe it's all in my head?
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rayivers

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2016, 03:59:04 AM »

Quote
Any idea why a quick release/re-pull of the throttle allows for a burst of power?

It feels to me like current limiting kicking in above some pre-set throttle setting, then kicking off (with a burst) when the throttle drops below the limiting threshold on the way back down.  On my bike, if I only twist the throttle about 3/4 max, I never feel it happen and the bike seems a bit faster with better throttle response.

Setting the top speed to 60mph in Custom mode, the Domino replacement throttle, and gearing down all helped a little bit each, to the point where I barely notice it now.

Ray
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Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Re: Finally joined the club with an FXS!
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2016, 03:40:23 AM »

Congrats and welcome! I've been riding mine around like mad. It will still break the rear loose in Eco mode if you whack it while leaned over. Still have 1/2" chicken strips on tires after 700+ miles. I'm going to turn off the abs for some full supermoto slideways styling! Just to scrub in the edges of the tires, and it's fun!
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