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[guppie70]

I believe we shop for vehicles by the edge cases. We buy huge trucks because twice per year, we haul something to the lake & back. Or we buy a huge 4-door saloon because we drive the coworkers to lunch once per month. Or we might want to store 3 bodies in the trunk. Whatever. 90% of the time, we just go to work and back and maybe run an errand on the way home.

I fully agree with you on the above!
That is why I have a subscription for a car sharing service for the few cases per year where I really can't use my bike.

To me this is not justifying the Zero SR price tag though.
In my opinion Tesla understands the customer better: they offer a premium product for a premium price with an adequate range. Maybe the quality is not on Mercedes/BMW level, but it comes really close. Tesla even offers more: all sorts of gadgets that might not be necessary (super large color display, auto pilot, wifi in the car, fancy LED lights, updates over-the-air, etc. etc.), but somehow justify the price. And the car looks (ehm...) "different", drives "different", accelerates in a "different" way.
To me the Zero doesn't have the above. So why spending all that money and not getting something really special (or "different") in return?
Personally I am willing to live with the range shortcomings of the Zero SR, but really only if there is something else to get exited about every time I get on it. Or it should be priced at about 10k EUR.

Eager to hear your thoughts 

[Doug S]

Tesla also was able to raise billions of dollars in venture capital money to get off the ground. C'mon, man, cut Zero some slack. They've done an amazing job given the resources they have. It's early in the development curve, and prices are high. You can either dive in, or wait. Your choice.

[guppie70]

Tesla also was able to raise billions of dollars in venture capital money to get off the ground. C'mon, man, cut Zero some slack. They've done an amazing job given the resources they have. It's early in the development curve, and prices are high. You can either dive in, or wait. Your choice.

You're right. Guess I am not your typical early adaptor... So I guess I'll wait what Zero will release for 2017. Maybe they'll read my review 

[Semper Why]

Hrm. Well, I'm not a salesman. I don't think I can convince you to buy a Zero if the price per performance isn't going to work for you.

IMHO, it's a bit of a disservice to only look at the Zero in terms of cost per newton-meter. There are cheaper options available if your goal is to accelerate. Each of us has a hierarchy of factors that go into deciding on such a purchase. A quick list is torque, comfort, price, ride feel, estimated hassle, aesthetics, social positioning, customizability, and so on and so forth. In my specific case, I'm a tech geek. I love me some new technology and I am an early adopter of a lot of nifty things. The price premium to get on an electric motorcycle is worth it to me. It may not be for you.

I'm sure someone on this board is all about smoothness. Surely someone is all about noise. And I am positive there are several people who want lower emissions. These are areas that add value to the bike. How much value is an individual decision. If those don't matter to you all that much, then an electric motorcycle is probably not worth the cost to you.

I do think that Zero could expand their appeal by focusing a bit less on trying to make it "just like any other motorcycle, but with some nifty advantages" and more towards "check out the cool state of the art bike!". However, that is just a hunch. In addition to not being a salesman, I'm not a market researcher. I have seen a lot of people expressing contempt for electric bikes because they're too different as they are. I'm not sure if it's worth the loss of those potential customers in order to gain the gadget aficionados.

So here's the question: If the Zero SR had LED lighting and reworked plastic, would you buy it at the current price?

[guppie70]

@Semper Why
I think that I could live with the limited range and the hassle of having to charge it on a client location for 6 hours in order to be able to get back.
A more high tech package would indeed seriously make me consider buying it.
This would then need to include:
- reworked plastic that includes a fairing (would probably increase the range as well)
- high tech forks/brakes with real stopping power
- traction control
- corner ABS
- LED lighting
- color dash display with the option to modify the layout (like on the Ducati Multistrada)
Acceleration and top speed are just fine.
It would be nice to have the torque not building down so fast so that you can also wheelie the bike, but that is obviously not a necessity

Like I mentioned, I am convinced that the end is near for ICE powered cars and bikes. The smoothness of an electrical drivetrain, the simplicity and the efficiency gains are very attractive. It would be fantastic to put some solar cells on the roof of my house to be able to charge the bike.

[JaimeC]

Question for the OP:  When you were doing your demo ride, what mode was the bike in?  I find it hard to believe that anyone would find the acceleration of a 400 lbs motorcycle sporting 102 lbs/ft of torque "unimpressive."  When I did my demo of the SR last year, I, too, found the acceleration oddly disappointing... then I noticed the "Mode" switch by my right thumb and discovered the bike was in "ECO" mode.  When I clicked it to "Sport" the only thought that came to mind was "YEE-HAH!!!"

Even my S is deceptively quick.  It just doesn't "feel" that fast because it's so smooth and quiet, and you don't have the sensation of clicking through gears.  However, recently I went riding with a friend of mine who wanted to try out my S.  He rides a KTM 1290 Superduke, and if you've read the reviews, that thing is no slouch when it comes to acceleration.  When we swapped bikes I found I had to really work the gears to keep up with him every time we launched from a traffic light.

[guppie70]

@JaimeC
The sales person put the bike in ECO mode at the start of my drive. I had a similar experience as you had, so after 500m or so I stopped and put it into SPORT mode. That helped!
I have to agree that it's hard to judge the acceleration without the noise of the engine being present. Maybe it's indeed as fast as they claim on the Zero website, but it did not feel like that. Maybe it also does not help that the front wheel seems to be glued to the tarmac... The KTM you are mentioning must be a wheelie monster that also makes you feel that you are accelerating really hard.
Also I think that because the bike accelerates so effortlessly without any shifting, you are probably accelerating faster than 99% of the other vehicles. Every time - without really "going for it". Hope you understand what I mean.
See my previous reply on what I am missing to consider buying it.

[DPsSRnSD]

I find that the SR accelerates so effortlessly and so fast I think it'd be more fun if it were slower (but I'm not going to turn it down). I'm at the speed limit so quick I have to roll back and sit up before I'm through the intersection, and that's with lots of head checks and a smooth roll out. At that point I'm just rolling along, ho hum. It's also at that point I again see other bikes that were waiting for the light. Maybe there aren't a lot of commuters on faster machines.

[grmarks]

I have a 2015 SR with 18,000 km and no real problems. I had it in the dealer shop for a battery % display issue at 700 km. They just tweaked the software and the problem disapeared.
As for range - if you only do 140km once a week you can always slow down a bit and range increases.
The price is high but if the claimed life of the battery is true 550,000 km at city speeds ( more like 300,000 for mixed riding) then thats better than a lot of cars, let alone bikes (you may have to replace 2 motor bearing and some wheel bearings but thats nothing really). How many km do you expect to put on your BMW before selling it? After 300,000 km you expect it won't need any parts?
The SR isn't as fast as big ICE bikes, but its not bad. Most riders I know use the clutch to lift the front wheel.
Zero's goal is to make an affordable electric motorbike. With batteries so expensive something has to give.
Tesla model S is not a $30,000 car. If you want premium, look at the Lighting LS218 (when it goes on sale), its less expensive than a tesla, but a lot more than a Zero!
I think you will be happy with its acceleration (and top speed).
The SR is no miracle machine but with the current state of technology (read batteries) Zero has done an amazing job.
The thing I love most is that instant torque when you turn the throttle. Put your BMW in top gear at 500 RPM and turn the throttle (you get the idea). If I am in cruse mode and all of a sudden I need acceleration all I have to do is turn the throttle, instantly I am out of trouble, no fumbling for lower gears, first.
That's what makes it so easy to ride. But it may not be the bike for you (yet).

 

[MrDude_1]

The thing I love most is that instant torque when you turn the throttle. Put your BMW in top gear at 500 RPM and turn the throttle (you get the idea). If I am in cruse mode and all of a sudden I need acceleration all I have to do is turn the throttle, instantly I am out of trouble, no fumbling for lower gears, first.
That's what makes it so easy to ride. But it may not be the bike for you (yet).

And thats the problem I have with it.
You DONT ride a normal bike in 4th gear all the time... so while you do have to shift, you end up with several times the torque of the SR. Put the bike in a lower gear and it has instant power too.

so for those of us that DONT have a problem riding normal bikes, the SR is legitimately lacking.  that 102 ft lbs mentioned above is misleading, as the actual torque put to the tire and ground is far far less than that of even a middleweight bike.
is it quick enough for riding around? sure.
but its not comparable to an ICE bike that makes 100 ft lbs....  If you look at the total gearing, in 1st gear most sporty US market bikes make more than twice the torque at the wheel.

so of course it feels unimpressive to an experienced rider that has been talked up about "instant torque"

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Do count gas and maintenance costs per commute distance over time. Riding the Zero plateaus your monthly expenditures. Look at it as a commuting investment. 70k miles seems to be the "free" point (TCO less than a free motorcycle) but the calculation depends on local petrol prices versus electricity and the cost per 10k mi/km traveled of tires.

[JaimeC]

"If you look at the total gearing, in 1st gear most sporty US market bikes make more than twice the torque at the wheel."

Source, please?  I've seen LOTS of torque curves, but I can't remember one sport bike that ever hit 204 lbs/ft on the dyno in ANY gear.

Well... the Lightning LS218... but that doesn't really count here.

UPDATE:  I just checked.  The Lightning "only" puts 168 lbs/ft of torque to the pavement, which is roughly twice what a Ducati Panigale produces.

[MrDude_1]

"If you look at the total gearing, in 1st gear most sporty US market bikes make more than twice the torque at the wheel."

Source, please?  I've seen LOTS of torque curves, but I can't remember one sport bike that ever hit 204 lbs/ft on the dyno in ANY gear.

Well... the Lightning LS218... but that doesn't really count here.

UPDATE:  I just checked.  The Lightning "only" puts 168 lbs/ft of torque to the pavement, which is roughly twice what a Ducati Panigale produces.

Dude, pick a literbike... the current 08-now honda is the least powerful so lets pick that and its brother, the CBR600.
The literbike will go over 90mph in 1st gear.  Look at its redline 13,000. about twice that of the zero motor.
tires are the same OD.

So its fair to say that in first gear, the literbike is geared 2:1 compared to the zero.

OVER 100% (due to flywheel inertia and the clutch) of the engines torque is available at any given time.

do the math yourself.


same thing applies to the 600cc bikes, but they redlines at just over 60mph...  the old rumor for this is that it makes for good magazine numbers. 0-60 mph and 0-100kph... really it means its geared so it has to shift compared to the zero, but from 60mph and below its fair to say it has far more torque.

[grmarks]

ICE bikes in first gear have more torque at the wheel but only when its reving hard. It would start out with less torque than the Zero (litre bike) but build to have more (much more with the gear multiplication at peak torque). Each time you change gear there is a dramatic drop in torque until you hit peak torque (but it is less because of less multiplication from the higher gear). But you can't always keep the motor at peak torque when ridding, so you have to fumble around to change down to get  the "instant torque". But then thats not instant! 

[guppie70]

so for those of us that DONT have a problem riding normal bikes, the SR is legitimately lacking.  that 102 ft lbs mentioned above is misleading, as the actual torque put to the tire and ground is far far less than that of even a middleweight bike.
is it quick enough for riding around? sure.
but its not comparable to an ICE bike that makes 100 ft lbs....  If you look at the total gearing, in 1st gear most sporty US market bikes make more than twice the torque at the wheel.

so of course it feels unimpressive to an experienced rider that has been talked up about "instant torque"

Finally some evidence to support the experience I had while driving the SR.
As I mentioned before, it's hard to compare acceleration on two totally different machines when one of them makes no noise or vibration at all!
What I meant by saying an ICE bike is faster when "going for it" was indeed using maximum power/throttle in the right gear.
It's all about expectation management: the marketing lady I spoke before my test drive said that the power of the bike was comparable with a litre bike (something like my K1300). Well: it's not... I actually never studied the specs/theory like @MrDude_1 did, but I really think he's right.
Full acceleration (in the right gear of course) on my K1300 is so much faster than the Zero SR. You also really have to lean forward to avoid the from wheel from lifting (and even when you do it might lift).
But - as mentioned by others - it's probably “effortless” acceleration aspect on the Zero SR that makes it a fast machine on average.
Thanks to @MrDude_1 for his remarks