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Author Topic: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual  (Read 7002 times)

BrianTRice

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #120 on: April 12, 2017, 08:28:59 PM »

Just one mention about this plan..
the idea of the Wiki is to contain the information on in the wiki. NOT to link to external sources. While they can of course be referenced, the information needs to still be in the wiki site itself.

Otherwise you're dependent on another website to be up and useful.  The entire point is so that if this board were to crash and go away, or someones random personal page with good info was to disappear, you would still have all the info you need in one place. The wiki itself is professionally hosted, backed up and maintained in a data center with mirrors in 3 physically different parts of the country.. so it should never be "lost".  But anything it links to can be.

Im still lost on how some static data belongs in a different database. I dont know if you're aware, but everything in the wiki, is in a database, complete with versioning history and everything. nothing is lost.

I would suggest heroku is a far more stable host than this site, as often I find it down. Heroku is a professional hosting server that many companies use. Admittedly this is on a hobby dev within the server (which is free hosting up to 10,000 rows in the DB)
You can read about it here.

Ultimately BrianTRice should have the last say as to what he wants or what is a good idea as its his baby. I will just go with the flow.
A real DB lets you run queries to subset the data so thats the advantage as Shadow pointed out.

I don't know that I have a last say. I'm just writing.

I love Postgres and despise Rails, as a former tech consultant asked to save decaying Rails projects and constantly using Postgres to improve customer data facilities. But those don't matter if someone else will always take care of it.

Private hosting is a drag for sure. I can't do much other than use the web interface. I'm not sure I have much time to do more for a while, but the ability to share responsibilities and pitch in means we can collectively do better.

I will say that I tried setting up automated content backup into a git repository, but the perl-based toolchain was too fragile to arrange properly.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

grmarks

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #121 on: April 12, 2017, 08:45:19 PM »

MrDude_1 forgive my ignorance, but do you have access to the servers the Zero Manuals are on, or the MySQL DB the data lives in?
When you say "our servers" what servers are they?
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grmarks

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #122 on: April 12, 2017, 08:54:57 PM »

Just one mention about this plan..
the idea of the Wiki is to contain the information on in the wiki. NOT to link to external sources. While they can of course be referenced, the information needs to still be in the wiki site itself.

Otherwise you're dependent on another website to be up and useful.  The entire point is so that if this board were to crash and go away, or someones random personal page with good info was to disappear, you would still have all the info you need in one place. The wiki itself is professionally hosted, backed up and maintained in a data center with mirrors in 3 physically different parts of the country.. so it should never be "lost".  But anything it links to can be.

Im still lost on how some static data belongs in a different database. I dont know if you're aware, but everything in the wiki, is in a database, complete with versioning history and everything. nothing is lost.

I would suggest heroku is a far more stable host than this site, as often I find it down. Heroku is a professional hosting server that many companies use. Admittedly this is on a hobby dev within the server (which is free hosting up to 10,000 rows in the DB)
You can read about it here.

Ultimately BrianTRice should have the last say as to what he wants or what is a good idea as its his baby. I will just go with the flow.
A real DB lets you run queries to subset the data so thats the advantage as Shadow pointed out.

I don't know that I have a last say. I'm just writing.

I love Postgres and despise Rails, as a former tech consultant asked to save decaying Rails projects and constantly using Postgres to improve customer data facilities. But those don't matter if someone else will always take care of it.

Private hosting is a drag for sure. I can't do much other than use the web interface. I'm not sure I have much time to do more for a while, but the ability to share responsibilities and pitch in means we can collectively do better.

I will say that I tried setting up automated content backup into a git repository, but the perl-based toolchain was too fragile to arrange properly.

Brian I love Ruby and am trying to change into Ruby Development, but I don't have a lot of experience yet. What version of Ruby and Rails are the decaying projects you speak of? A senior Ruby dev. can deliver a quality site in 5 weeks with Rails that would take 4 months with PHP. I don't know why everyone who is not a Rails dev hates it. But then maybe the Rails was not written well?
You write Ruby code different than in other languages, I have seen ruby code written by a C developer and its been far from good ruby code. There is a lot more to ruby than learning the op codes.
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BrianTRice

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #123 on: April 12, 2017, 09:16:48 PM »

Just one mention about this plan..
the idea of the Wiki is to contain the information on in the wiki. NOT to link to external sources. While they can of course be referenced, the information needs to still be in the wiki site itself.

Otherwise you're dependent on another website to be up and useful.  The entire point is so that if this board were to crash and go away, or someones random personal page with good info was to disappear, you would still have all the info you need in one place. The wiki itself is professionally hosted, backed up and maintained in a data center with mirrors in 3 physically different parts of the country.. so it should never be "lost".  But anything it links to can be.

Im still lost on how some static data belongs in a different database. I dont know if you're aware, but everything in the wiki, is in a database, complete with versioning history and everything. nothing is lost.

I would suggest heroku is a far more stable host than this site, as often I find it down. Heroku is a professional hosting server that many companies use. Admittedly this is on a hobby dev within the server (which is free hosting up to 10,000 rows in the DB)
You can read about it here.

Ultimately BrianTRice should have the last say as to what he wants or what is a good idea as its his baby. I will just go with the flow.
A real DB lets you run queries to subset the data so thats the advantage as Shadow pointed out.

I don't know that I have a last say. I'm just writing.

I love Postgres and despise Rails, as a former tech consultant asked to save decaying Rails projects and constantly using Postgres to improve customer data facilities. But those don't matter if someone else will always take care of it.

Private hosting is a drag for sure. I can't do much other than use the web interface. I'm not sure I have much time to do more for a while, but the ability to share responsibilities and pitch in means we can collectively do better.

I will say that I tried setting up automated content backup into a git repository, but the perl-based toolchain was too fragile to arrange properly.

Brian I love Ruby and am trying to change into Ruby Development, but I don't have a lot of experience yet. What version of Ruby and Rails are the decaying projects you speak of? A senior Ruby dev. can deliver a quality site in 5 weeks with Rails that would take 4 months with PHP. I don't know why everyone who is not a Rails dev hates it. But then maybe the Rails was not written well?
You write Ruby code different than in other languages, I have seen ruby code written by a C developer and its been far from good ruby code. There is a lot more to ruby than learning the op codes.

My experience with ruby started a decade ago after the first web apps were written in it, and I tried to make some consulting contracts work to revitalize Rails projects. Rails projects do not survive without an active team continually working on them, period. You're not wrong about Ruby or PHP, but the delivery story is not as important as the maintenance and handoff story for a loosely coupled community, which is where rails in particular falls over for relying too much on hard to debug syntactic sugar, deep module dependencies, and heavy runtime overhead.

For what it's worth, I cut my teeth on programming environment implementation and know the implementors of a good number of compilers, languages, and user interface frameworks. I've even implemented a few myself. I'm deeply aware of what underlies my preferences and don't want to overweigh them here.

PS I despise tech industry culture, and electric motorcycle tinkering is one way I try to stay positive, which is why I really don't want to debate this personally. What I don't want is someone else's decision to become my problem after they lose interest.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

Shadow

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #124 on: April 12, 2017, 09:34:54 PM »

This discussion sounds good to me, I'll get some data layout going offline. Whatever we come up with it can live on the zeromanual site, parallel to the wiki database. That's good enough for me to know it's worth the time to do the data entry.
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grmarks

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2017, 06:46:44 AM »

Just one more question Brian, why do you love postgresql? Is that compared to MySQL or more?
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grmarks

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #126 on: April 13, 2017, 06:48:19 AM »

Have I got my wires crossed? Was the unofficial owners manual started by MrDude_1 and not BrianTRice?
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BrianTRice

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #127 on: April 13, 2017, 08:36:47 AM »

Just one more question Brian, why do you love postgresql? Is that compared to MySQL or more?

I work in analytics and have gotten tons of mileage out of Postgres over 15 years. MySQL has been awkward to use successfully. Not exactly bad, but it doesn't perform nice indexing and operations on fancy data types that help beyond the basic CRUD operations.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

BrianTRice

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Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #128 on: April 13, 2017, 08:39:40 AM »

Have I got my wires crossed? Was the unofficial owners manual started by MrDude_1 and not BrianTRice?

MrDude owns the domain and runs the hosting. I just have a mediawiki web account. I'm capable of administering the site in principle but have limited time. I'd likely convert it to a Github wiki or the like if I had to maintain it just to avoid hassles.

But that would change if plenty of people joined in as editors. Which might require mediawiki upgrades to improve the editing UI, and I can't reasonably demand that because PHP can be a pain.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

grmarks

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #129 on: April 13, 2017, 04:03:53 PM »

I would suggest heroku is a far more stable host than this site, as often I find it down.
When you say "this site" do you mean electricmotorcycleforum or zeromanual.com?

Heroku is a professional hosting server that many companies use. Admittedly this is on a hobby dev within the server (which is free hosting up to 10,000 rows in the DB)
You can read about it here.

Ultimately BrianTRice should have the last say as to what he wants or what is a good idea as its his baby. I will just go with the flow.
A real DB lets you run queries to subset the data so thats the advantage as Shadow pointed out.

Zero manual is hosted on Pair Networks.. and does support mySQL databases... if you want me to setup a real database on there in mySQL I can. just the code and everything will need to be on that server, for the same reason.. as long as the site exists, the information is all there. no external info needed. It would be a real development project though.

I suggested heroku because it as easy as "git push heroku" to deploy rails there. MySQL is fine with rails because its DB agnostic. I would suspect that setting up the site with ruby and rails would be a major project as well.
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MrDude_1

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2017, 08:20:37 PM »

MrDude_1 forgive my ignorance, but do you have access to the servers the Zero Manuals are on, or the MySQL DB the data lives in?
When you say "our servers" what servers are they?
I have hosting level access to everything. Its professionally hosted by Pair Networks. Its their hardware/datacenter and support.
So while I dont have deep level access to the server, I can do (or have done) anything I need to setup whatever I want... although some things cost more money than others.

Have I got my wires crossed? Was the unofficial owners manual started by MrDude_1 and not BrianTRice?

This whole thing started with a conversation between me and a close friend that owns a Zero. We talked about it, but I thought that was the end of it. Then he bought the domain on my Hover account (close friend, he has access)... and came over to my house to see if I could setup a wiki on it. I setup the wiki software, made a logo, and had it running that evening... but there was no real content... nor was it deeply planned for content sorting.
The next day at work I made a few pages, but didnt have much.
Then someone made a comment about where to put some information, and I said "meh, what the heck, i need to share this anyway" and mentioned it on here.
Then Brian heard about it, and he really stepped up to put the content on there. While I mearly setup the wiki, he went above and beyond to find info, sort everything lay it all out.... While I consider it community owned and others have contributed, I would say Brian started it above all else, because it would probably have fizzed out without him. Hes the reason I can go "what size xxx is that" and go look it up in under a minute. I havent really contributed much to it, other than just paying for the server every year.

What I don't want is someone else's decision to become my problem after they lose interest.

Thats kind of how I feel too. one of the reasons its a mediawiki is that its somewhat stable and hands off to keep going. Theres other software out there, but I dont want to have to mess with the backend on a regular basis. I dont really have the free time, and when I do get free time, I just dont have the interest.
I consider the wiki layout a huge step-up from the old "geocities-style" personal webpages most private vehicle information sites used to be... but its not really a parts catalog... although one could be wedged in there, a few pages with microfiche, chart and a tag could work well enough. IMO.



I suggested heroku because it as easy as "git push heroku" to deploy rails there. MySQL is fine with rails because its DB agnostic. I would suspect that setting up the site with ruby and rails would be a major project as well.
yeah, I personally am not a big ruby fan either... or PHP for that matter... my intrest is more low-level hardware/firmware, even though my day job as a software engineer is for a dotcom... outside of work, I kind of dispise working on anything "web"... mostly because its feels like im just running other peoples code like a script kiddy... too far from the hardware, or even the real code thats doing the work.

Have I got my wires crossed? Was the unofficial owners manual started by MrDude_1 and not BrianTRice?

MrDude owns the domain and runs the hosting. I just have a mediawiki web account. I'm capable of administering the site in principle but have limited time. I'd likely convert it to a Github wiki or the like if I had to maintain it just to avoid hassles.

But that would change if plenty of people joined in as editors. Which might require mediawiki upgrades to improve the editing UI, and I can't reasonably demand that because PHP can be a pain.

I do need to update the UI, I just forgot about updating it. New kid, new job, etc... makes it easy to forget about things like that. 
I think I started to look at what my options were, but there was some kind of conflict between what I wanted and the version of something I had.. I'll try to look at it soon.
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BrianTRice

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #131 on: April 17, 2017, 11:29:58 AM »

I've added a short section for washing one's bike: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Usage#Washing

I've also added a short section for how to plan when to charge based on one's commute: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Usage#Charge_Cycle_Plan

I lent my 2013DS to a friend for commuting, who had never tried an electric motorcycle before, in order to get the right feedback on how to charge and what it feels like for a newcomer.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

Shadow

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #132 on: April 18, 2017, 11:52:15 AM »

Added links to self-reference the existing guide i.e. where seat removal is Step Number One in some other process.

Added:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Advanced_Modifications#Leave-In_Kettle_Cord
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#On-board_Charging_Port
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#Helmet_Lock_Removal
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#Chargetank_Inlet_Bracket

Split:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#DigiNow_Super_Charger_V1
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#DigiNow_Super_Charger_V2

Looking for more specific advice on the helmet lock relocation write-up. I want to try this mod but I hesitate to drill holes in the frame until I'm more sure about the placement. Also want to verify if re-using the same bolts etc.
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Richard230

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #133 on: April 18, 2017, 08:56:12 PM »

I too am not one that likes to bore holes into frames, especially ones made from aluminum.  How about gluing a helmet lock to the frame using JB Weld?  That stuff ought to hold the lock well enough to support a helmet and prevent anyone from trying to pry off the lock.  After all it would be a lot easier to just cut the nylon helmet chin strap or the thin U locking loop of the helmet lock that secures the helmet strap.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

grmarks

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Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2017, 06:47:03 AM »

I would suggest heroku is a far more stable host than this site, as often I find it down.
When you say "this site" do you mean electricmotorcycleforum or zeromanual.com?

Heroku is a professional hosting server that many companies use. Admittedly this is on a hobby dev within the server (which is free hosting up to 10,000 rows in the DB)
You can read about it here.

Ultimately BrianTRice should have the last say as to what he wants or what is a good idea as its his baby. I will just go with the flow.
A real DB lets you run queries to subset the data so thats the advantage as Shadow pointed out.

Zero manual is hosted on Pair Networks.. and does support mySQL databases... if you want me to setup a real database on there in mySQL I can. just the code and everything will need to be on that server, for the same reason.. as long as the site exists, the information is all there. no external info needed. It would be a real development project though.

I meant the electricmotorcycleforum
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