Topic: Engage regen before braking. (Read 2868 times)

BertTrack · « **on:** May 18, 2016, 01:20:28 PM »

I've added a very thin 0.5mm washer to the brake light switch to make it switch when i pull the handle in a fraction of the way.

With regen while braking set to 100% works nicely it will coast because i don't regen when off the throttle.

So the light will light up when i brake on the engine (in custom mode)

clay.leihy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 18, 2016, 06:55:20 PM »

Quote from: BertTrack on May 18, 2016, 01:20:28 PM

I've added a very thin 0.5mm washer to the brake light switch to make it switch when i pull the handle in a fraction of the way.

With regen while braking set to 100% works nicely it will coast because i don't regen when off the throttle.

So the light will light up when i brake on the engine (in custom mode)

You could use something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Vololights-Motorcycle-Downshifting-Installation-Waterproof/dp/B00MEQ25X8

But your solution is cheap or free and 100% user controllable.

Clay
DoD #2160,6
currently riding '02 FSC600.

NEW2elec · « **Reply #2 on:** May 18, 2016, 07:51:38 PM »

Hey Bert I think I see what your saying but could you take some pics and post them. Sounds like an easy fix for those of us that like to be seen when we slow down as much as possible.
Thanks.

KrazyEd · « **Reply #3 on:** May 18, 2016, 09:35:49 PM »

I am guessing that since you added the washer, your setup may be different than mine.
On my 2013 FX, I just adjusted the screw on the lever to do the same thing. Other
than emergency braking, I seldom use the brakes at all above about 12 mph.

avernon82 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2016, 05:14:52 AM »

that's a cool idea, and free/cheap! Will try that tonight.

BertTrack · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2016, 12:10:57 AM »

A picture of the washer in between.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Waqn8UREqzvjqPwLdYAyqH8vlo-DkxikFw

How it functions:

Kocho · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2016, 05:47:17 AM »

I don't understand how this works, can you explain more?

Quote from: BertTrack on May 18, 2016, 01:20:28 PM

I've added a very thin 0.5mm washer to the brake light switch to make it switch when i pull the handle in a fraction of the way.

With regen while braking set to 100% works nicely it will coast because i don't regen when off the throttle.

So the light will light up when i brake on the engine (in custom mode)

BertTrack · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2016, 04:27:03 PM »

Quote from: Kocho on May 20, 2016, 05:47:17 AM

I don't understand how this works, can you explain more?

Quote from: BertTrack on May 18, 2016, 01:20:28 PM

I will try.

If you want to ride as economic as possible you want to coast as much as possible instead of brake. So closing the throttle you set 0 regeneration.

Of course sometimes you do need to reduce speed more than coasting and then it's best to recuperate speed as much as possible. So braking through regeneration only.

The regeneration is activated through the brake light switch. So if you pull the handle the regeneration will start when the brake light turns on. But standard this happens (on my bike) after the front brake engages. So it is also braking mechanically.

To separate the mechanical and electrical brake, and to engage the electrical before the mechanical you need to bring the electrical switch out a little bit more so when you pull the handle it engages the brake light/recuperation before it mechanically applies the brake.

If you check the video I made you see that by touching the front brake I'm slowing down the rear wheel because of the regeneration.

Kocho · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2016, 04:52:01 PM »

Thanks! I thought it was supposed to work like this already - my brake seems to be setup this way too. It engages brake regen with just a touch of the lever without me feeling the mechanical brake engaging. But mine is adjustable, so looks like you got the same effect with the washer.

BrianTRice@gmail.com · « **Reply #9 on:** May 26, 2016, 12:53:01 PM »

I set this up today (0% regen with 100% brake regen), and I have to admit liking it quite a bit, even if it's initially unnerving to not get immediate regen on throttle release (could mean a little more stopping distance when I hesitate to fully brake). The adjustment on my DSR to ensure a comfortable margin of regen-only braking on the lever was small. The rear brake pedal does not feel like it has that margin at all.

I do have the GearBrake installed which flashes my brake lights, so now I know that cars will not be confused about whether I'm decelerating. I also have regen enabled below 15mph. It's also more comfortable on the highway letting go of the throttle momentarily, knowing that I'm literally coasting for a bit instead of slowing down semi-actively.

Kocho · « **Reply #10 on:** May 26, 2016, 05:59:51 PM »

We talk about "coasting" with 0 regen and 0 throttle, but in my experience the bike is hardly coasting. It loses speed much faster than it should if it was freely coasting. While there is 0 regen shown on the bike display, it decelerates as if there is still some regen present. Yes, slower than with regen enabled, but still much quicker than pure "coasting".

Also, brake regen appears to be triggered only by the use of the front hand brake. The rear foot brake I do not think triggers regen at all. Is that right?

Are your bikes the same while "coasting" and using the foot brake?

Doug S · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2016, 08:23:43 PM »

Quote from: Kocho on May 26, 2016, 05:59:51 PM

We talk about "coasting" with 0 regen and 0 throttle, but in my experience the bike is hardly coasting. It loses speed much faster than it should if it was freely coasting. While there is 0 regen shown on the bike display, it decelerates as if there is still some regen present. Yes, slower than with regen enabled, but still much quicker than pure "coasting".

I've noticed the same thing. I think it's just eddy current losses in the motor as it turns. In other words, it does take some energy to turn the motor at road speed. Other than that, this bike should coast as well as any bike does, and it doesn't seem to me that it does.

Quote

Also, brake regen appears to be triggered only by the use of the front hand brake. The rear foot brake I do not think triggers regen at all. Is that right?

That I hadn't noticed, and it seems unlikely to me. I think the second level of regen is triggered when the brake light comes on, so it should work off of either brake. I don't think Zero has any other sensors than the brake light to trigger the second level, do they? I wonder if maybe your rear brake light switch isn't working or isn't adjusted correctly.

Kocho · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2016, 09:13:25 PM »

Yup, probably those currents are slowing down the bike, so my thinking is I might as well capture some of that via regen.

As for the rear brake triggering regen (or not), I will check once I pick-it up from the dealer. I maybe mistaken, but just from feel I thought a light application of the front brake would trigger regen, where a light application of the foot pedal won't. I'll have to check the brake light switch does operate for the rear brake, as that is a safety concern if it does not. The bike passed state inspection just recently, so I assume it operates correctly ...

Quote from: Doug S on May 26, 2016, 08:23:43 PM

Quote from: Kocho on May 26, 2016, 05:59:51 PM
We talk about "coasting" with 0 regen and 0 throttle, but in my experience the bike is hardly coasting. It loses speed much faster than it should if it was freely coasting. While there is 0 regen shown on the bike display, it decelerates as if there is still some regen present. Yes, slower than with regen enabled, but still much quicker than pure "coasting".

I've noticed the same thing. I think it's just eddy current losses in the motor as it turns. In other words, it does take some energy to turn the motor at road speed. Other than that, this bike should coast as well as any bike does, and it doesn't seem to me that it does.

Quote
Also, brake regen appears to be triggered only by the use of the front hand brake. The rear foot brake I do not think triggers regen at all. Is that right?

That I hadn't noticed, and it seems unlikely to me. I think the second level of regen is triggered when the brake light comes on, so it should work off of either brake. I don't think Zero has any other sensors than the brake light to trigger the second level, do they? I wonder if maybe your rear brake light switch isn't working or isn't adjusted correctly.

BrianTRice@gmail.com · « **Reply #13 on:** May 26, 2016, 09:18:20 PM »

The rear brake does activate regen and the brake signal, but I didn't find a zone where regen would turn on without feeling the pads contact. I'll have a quick look today to try adjusting this.

WoadRaider · « **Reply #14 on:** May 30, 2016, 06:02:39 AM »

I must be missing something here because I don't understand this thread at all. If you have closed throttle regenerative braking turned on you can still just open the throttle a little and coast (there is a place on the throttle where it's not fully closed but also not giving you power). Or maybe you don't have that function on the FX?

Edit: Motorcycles slow down much faster than larger/heavier vehicles and the Zero isn't very aerodynamic, keep that in mind.

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Author Topic: Engage regen before braking. (Read 2868 times)

BertTrack

Engage regen before braking.

clay.leihy

Re: Engage regen before braking.

NEW2elec

Re: Engage regen before braking.

KrazyEd

Re: Engage regen before braking.

avernon82

Re: Engage regen before braking.

BertTrack

Re: Engage regen before braking.

Kocho

Re: Engage regen before braking.

BertTrack

Re: Engage regen before braking.

Kocho

Re: Engage regen before braking.

BrianTRice@gmail.com

Re: Engage regen before braking.

Kocho

Re: Engage regen before braking.

Doug S

Re: Engage regen before braking.

Kocho

Re: Engage regen before braking.

BrianTRice@gmail.com

Re: Engage regen before braking.

WoadRaider

Re: Engage regen before braking.