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Author Topic: Brake pads  (Read 5438 times)

rayivers

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Brake pads
« on: April 04, 2016, 05:51:15 PM »

NOTE:  If you're hoping for a significant increase in braking power from just a pad swap - as I was - you'll likely be disappointed.  In the '14 FX at least, Zero did a good job finding pads that were compatible with their brake systems.   My bikes came with Nissin TT2508HH sintered-metal front & semi-metallic Galfer FD093 rears, and while I was able to reduce the front squealing with different pads, I never got much more braking power from any of the pads I tried, and had to modify my brakes instead (now that worked). :)

My pads are the same size & shape as these Renthal BP-100 front  / BP-103 rear pads (which both worked pretty well):



Here are the dimensions and OEM equivalents (note the limited material availability - more on this later):

front pads

rear pads

I really don't know for sure which other Zeros use these pads.  If your rear brake has a J Juan 1315875 caliper (25mm piston) and your front caliper is a Nissin with 2 x 26mm pistons, the pads above should fit; double-check to be sure, though. Most (if not all) of the compound info below should still be usable regardless, though.

A brief compound primer, softest to hardest (some pads fit into multiple categories):

1) Non-metallic (organic / synthetic / Kevlar / etc.): requires the least lever / pedal pressure, best at low speeds & pad temps, easy on rotors,
    dusty, short break-in, relatively short life

2) Semi-metallic: needs more pressure than above to work well, a bit harder on rotors, can have better hi-pad-temp power w/less fade,
    longer break-in, longer lasting

3) Fully metallic (sintered, etc.): needs high pressure & temps to work best, can be hard on rotors, long break-in, long lasting, sometimes noisy

4) Ceramic: combines good power at low pressures with reduced fade and longer life, can run very hot, quiet, medium break-in time,
    difficult to find in some sizes

Anyway, on to the reviews (I define 'bite' as braking power during the first half-second or so):

Front pads (stock '14 FX Nissin front brake, OEM 240mm rotor):

Honda 45105-MY6-415 (Nissin TT2501HH sintered): OK power & bite, good consistency, least squeal    BEST
OEM (Nissin TT2508HH, metallic/sintered?): OK power & consistency, weak bite, squealing
Yamaha 5XC-W0045-00-00 (Nissin TT2952HH, sintered): like OEM but less consistent, squeal
EBC MXS185: slightly more power than OEM, OK consistency / bite, some squealing
Renthal BP-100: similar to EBC but less squeal, consistent, quick break-in, easy on rotor

Front pads (higher-pressure modified system):

Honda 45105-MY6-415 (Nissin TT2501HH): VG+ power / consistency / bite, no squeal    BEST
OEM (Nissin TT2508HH): G+ power & consistency, G bite, minimal squealing

Rear pads (stock '14 FX J Juan rear brake, OEM 240mm rotor):

OEM (Galfer FD093): OK power & bite, VG consistency, easy on rotor, wears quickly     BEST
Honda 43105-KZ1-415 (Nissin TT2302FF, semi-metallic?): OK power & consistency, weak bite, dark rotor coating
Galfer FD093 G1396 (sintered): awful - poor power / bite & terrible consistency, brutal on rotor (scoring)
Renthal BP-103: slightly less power / bite / consistency than OEM, quick break-in, easy on rotor

Rear pads (higher-pressure modified system):

OEM (Galfer FD093): VG power & bite (almost too much on dirt), consistency still VG     BEST
Honda 43105-KZ1-415 (as above): weaker & less consistent than OEM, OK bite, dark rotor coating
Renthal BP-103: like OEM except a bit more pedal pressure needed, consistent, easy on rotor

Here's a current Galfer compound chart:



Galfer used to make compounds that went off the top of these charts, but these are now all that's left available to the public. The 1375 race compound shown is not available in the '14 FX pad sizes.  What's left is (to me, anyway) not that impressive, especially at lower speeds & temps where I do most of my braking.

When using a chart like this to choose a pad for a Zero, it's important to know what your expected speed range is and how fast you commonly need to stop from the highest speed in that range.  You may have to compromise, as Zero's braking systems limit pad choices to those which provide decent stopping power at reduced pressure (types 1, 2, and 4 above). Nowadays it seems a lot of makers are pushing their sintered pads - which have decent stopping power at high speeds with typical MC brakes - but the ones I tried on the stock Zero brake systems were just OK on the front, and unusable on the back.  One thing I've noticed about Zero brakes is that with some pads they 'reverse fade' (the brakes start out weak, then get stronger), especially with the harder compounds.

On a related note... some overseas pad sellers advertise hard-to-find discontinued / unavailable compounds as being in stock, then once you've paid for them they drop the bad news and suggest a replacement that's often not similar at all or available much cheaper in the States (this happened to me twice now).  More than once I found what I thought would be an excellent compound to try out, only to find it wasn't available in my pad sizes (you can pretty much forget about any street-oriented 'race' compounds, as most makers consider the '14 FX style pads off-road only).  I also consulted a well-known Web braking specialist asking for low-pressure / low-temp pads, and ended up with nearly the highest pressure / temp pads Galfer makes - go figure. :(

I'll continue looking for better pads, mainly in the semi-metallic and ceramic categories.  It hasn't been easy so far. Some makers have only a few compounds, some have many but not in all sizes, most are in between.  The next set I'll be trying out are SBS 604 RQ 'Carbon Tech' race pads, which I got from Zero in 2014 (P/N 25-07021). I'm also working on having custom pads made, preferably with the material on the right below; I use it on all my vintage-drum shoes, it's designed to stop / hold large conveyor belts and small trains. :)



Ray
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 01:53:45 AM by rayivers »
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evtricity

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 02:32:33 AM »

Did you try the EBC EPFA185HH front pads? I realise they are a street/track oriented pad but I have found them a good improvement over the stock pads on my 2014 SR which uses the same front and rear brakes as the 2014 FX.

I use the EPFA208HH on the rear. They are an improvement over the stock pads but still hampered by the J Juan rear brake. I'm about to try a Brembo rear brake off a BMW S1000RR that uses the same EBC 208/213 pads.
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rayivers

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 03:34:57 AM »

Thanks for the info!  I had the EPFA131HH on my to-try list for the rear brake, but hadn't gotten around to them yet.  I guess the SR must use a different J Juan rear caliper, as the 208 pads are a bit bigger than mine.

I don't know if I'll be trying different front pads, as the front brake is working well w/o squealing now and I don't want to risk screwing that up.

If you do go ahead with the Brembo upgrade I'd love to know how it works out.  I really should look into Brembo pads too, by all accounts they make great stuff.

Ray
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rayivers

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2016, 02:52:16 AM »

I tried four more pad sets, but have only one real review:

Brembo Carbon / Ceramic (P/N 07HO2608, rear):  These worked great - good bite, plenty of locking power for the dirt (street too) and very consistent once broken in. They're currently tied for 1st place with the discontinued OEM Galfer pads, and appear to use the exact same friction material (dark brown w/ lots of brass & possibly copper too, nice and thick).  Brembo surfaced them with a rotary grinder and they broke in very quickly, unlike the SBS pads below.  I don't know if these are sold in the US, but I got two pairs plus an 07KA1705 set to try up front from CarpiMoto, which turned out to be quicker (3 days!) and cheaper than any Stateside place I used for the other pads.

SBS 604 RQ 'Carbon Tech' (Zero P/N 25-07021 but probably NLA, rear):  These pads were so poorly made I was unable to get more than 50% pad/rotor contact despite 20+ hours of "break-in", and finally just took them off. One pad's friction material wasn't parallel to the backing plate, and the other's had a step in it about 2/3 of the way back from the leading edge.  I had high hopes for these - SBS makes them for wheelie control and backing into corners - but milling the friction surfaces (obviously regular sanding won't work) is gonna have to wait, especially after how well the Brembos worked starting at the end of my driveway. :)

Custom Pads 1 ('Green Gripper' Kevlar compound): This is a popular industrial friction material and apparently works well on giant holding drums, but on my bike it only generated decent friction & bite when quite hot.  I remember Kevlar brake shoes working similarly on one of my vintage bikes.

Custom Pads 2 (HWK 2000 compound):  This stuff had the dark-brown-and-brass appearance of the Brembos above, but in a compressed/woven format rather than solid.  It had much better bite & power than the Kevlar and might've worked fine in a drum, but it didn't like the drilled rotor at all and deposited thin hard strips on it which had to be removed with a razor blade. :(  I hope to try more custom solid-material pads at a later date, ideally something with about 70% brass.

Ray

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Manzanita

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 05:33:01 AM »


Rear pads (stock '14 FX J Juan rear brake, OEM 240mm rotor):

OEM (Galfer FD093): OK power & bite, VG consistency, easy on rotor, wears quickly     BEST


Which compound (part number suffix) are these?  FD093G1054 comes up most often in a google search, but there are other compounds (suffixes)... I see FD093G1396 on ebay.
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rayivers

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 06:34:53 AM »

The OEM '14 FX rear pads are Galfer FD093 G1651 semi-metallic.  I read online that this 'purple' compound was very popular & discontinued in early 2015, at which time former G1651 users were advised to go with the semi-metallic/carbon G1054 pads. The 1054 compound was later upgraded to be a better replacement for the 1651, which didn't sound too promising to me so I didn't try it. The Brembo carbon/ceramic/metal pads have nearly identical performance to the G1651 Galfers.

The Galfer G1396 sintered pads are reviewed briefly above.  They started scoring my rotor after a few rides, so I pulled them off before any serious damage was done.

Ray
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Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 12:32:56 AM »

Here is a link to the EBC catalog (USA) for most newer Zero applications front/ rear in different compounds.

http://ebcbrakes.com/Assets/ecatalogues/2016_USA_Motorcycle_Catalogue/USA_Motorcycle_Catalogue_2016.html#p=30



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Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 12:40:08 AM »

Here is the SBS (which I'm told make the pads for JJuan) search engine. Zeros are included as well as different compounds.

http://uk.sbs.dk/business-areas/motorcycle.aspx
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rayivers

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 01:20:10 AM »

Thanks for those links.  For the '14 FX, both the EBC and SBS model searches show the correct front pads (EBC xx185, SBS 694xx) and INcorrect rear pads (correct ones are EBC xx131 & SBS 604xx).  Hopefully that's the only error and will get fixed at some point, but in the meantime I'd suggest taking a good look at the pad outline at the SBS site and making sure it matches the pads on the bike.

Ray
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avernon82

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 02:59:59 AM »

the listed EBC front pads for the 16 fx are wrong.
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avernon82

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2016, 10:21:10 PM »

just updating this thread with the correct brake pads for the '15-16 FX

the front pads are EBC FA181

I tried the FA181X carbon pads, and they work pretty well. No squealing. Definitely diminished performance over the stock sintered.
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Keith

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2017, 04:30:30 AM »

Here's a newer EBC catalog link for Zero brake pads including 2017 models https://ebcbrakes.com/Assets/ecatalogues/EBC_2017_US_MC_Catalog/EBC_2017_US_MC_Catalog.html#p=16
This also has the WRONG FX front pad number
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 05:46:51 PM by Keith »
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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2017, 06:41:56 AM »

And here's where I've indexed brake pad fit across as many Zero models and years as I can manage and it all seems consistent now, thankfully:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Brake_Pad_Fit
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nnelson65

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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2018, 12:21:42 PM »

So the wiki doesn't make it clear whether  EBC FA208 or FA213 is the right pad for the rear of the later S/DS...can anyone tell me for sure which one is correct?  I know they are the same shape, but one is thicker than the other.  The EBC catalog says FA213...can anyone confirm?
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Re: Brake pads
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 12:54:03 AM »

So the wiki doesn't make it clear whether  EBC FA208 or FA213 is the right pad for the rear of the later S/DS...can anyone tell me for sure which one is correct?  I know they are the same shape, but one is thicker than the other.  The EBC catalog says FA213...can anyone confirm?

Good point; they are technically interchangeable and FA213 is the thicker one IIRC but I believe the stock pad went from FA208 in 2014 to FA213 for 2015 onward.

A quick forum search vaguely confirms this.
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