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Author Topic: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]  (Read 3365 times)

BrianTRice

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Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« on: March 23, 2016, 11:38:19 PM »

I was reminded the other day of the vulnerability of a belt drive; what felt like a nail embedding in my tire turned out to be milk carton cardboard getting pulled under/between the rear sprocket and drive belt. I pulled over and removed it pretty easily, but I've been wondering whether a guard is possible or available in some way. Even a reverse mounting of the upper belt guard would be suitable.


Any thoughts?
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mistasam

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 01:56:37 AM »

Yep, I'll definitely be making one.  Too many stories like that really make me want more protection.  I wonder if any other bikes (BMW or Buell) have em!
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BrianTRice

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 05:22:52 AM »

Yep, I'll definitely be making one.  Too many stories like that really make me want more protection.  I wonder if any other bikes (BMW or Buell) have em!

It seems as though they're available by searching for "lower belt guard" across the web (just checked on EBay). The strange thing is I've got a spare mudguard which includes the upper belt guard and would work if I could cut out that part, flip it around, and bind it reasonably well to the swingarm. Maybe. The reversed orientation may be no good.

If you figure out a way to do it and reproduce your work (plans or just make a copy), I'd gladly compensate you. Maybe I'll figure out how to do the same if my idea works, since it'd hopefully be cheap.
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mistasam

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 06:59:45 AM »

Interesting!  Yea, definitely worth looking into.  I'm also going to try and reproduce what the original Brammo Empulse concept had, with that rear hugger:



Seems like it would shield you a lot more than what Zero (or even Brammo) ended up making.
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BrianTRice

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 07:26:00 AM »

That would be really nice.
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rayivers

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 09:35:54 PM »

It's hard to tell from photos, but I wonder if a deep aluminum channel could be attached to the LH top of the 'skid plate' under the front pulley, and run as far back as possible to semi-enclose at least part of the lower belt run, kind of like the Brammo concept bike?  This would protect the belt a fair amount from direct road debris, and also a bit from tire-borne crap too (depending on length).

Since AFAIK only the FX has the chain-guide mount on the swingarm, it would be a bit difficult to mount a 2-piece belt guide where the lower belt run meets the pulley, although it could be done.

Ray
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KrazyEd

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2016, 11:10:01 AM »

I was talking with a Harley owner recently who claimed long time employment with Harley Davidson.
I was inquiring about belt life. He said that if you left the belt guards ( not sure if that is the term he used )
in place, then, you got phenomenal life. Many 10s of thousands of miles. If removed, then, you were at more
risk, and, could expect much shorter life.
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yhafting

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2016, 02:06:36 AM »

I was reminded the other day of the vulnerability of a belt drive; what felt like a nail embedding in my tire turned out to be milk carton cardboard getting pulled under/between the rear sprocket and drive belt. I pulled over and removed it pretty easily, but I've been wondering whether a guard is possible or available in some way. Even a reverse mounting of the upper belt guard would be suitable.


Any thoughts?

Definetely something i would like to have along with some proper mudguard for the rear wheel. You've seen my post in the zero 2013+ section about gravel embedded into the belt. I think the belt is quite exposed on the Zero S/SR and the tiny rear wheel hugger (if that is the correct term) doesn't provide much help for the belt, as gravel may well pass onto the lower section of the belt from the inside, and it doesn't stop much dirt from landing in the motor/suspension area. Whatever piles up there may again fall down into the belt or land directly on the motor cogwheel driving the belt.

I'd like to see some proper mudgards that would also protect the belt as much as possible. If not for everyone, i'd like to have that as an option.

Unfortunately the current rear wheel hugger is made over a curve in the swingarm and the distance between the bolts holding it is not the same on both sides. This makes it more complex to make your own solution, and (as you've said) there are no ready made solution, -it has to be tailor made for zero.

I am pondering on whether i could design something larger than the current rear wheel hugger that would protect not only the belt, but also the motor and the supspension from being covered in mud. I guess if a 3D design was made, it could be used to create a sintered plastic part that would likely be strong enough. The problem -in addition to finding time to create such a thing- would be to decide what it should include. My thoughts ranges from something to attach to the current plastic to something replacing it fully. The latter would of course be an expensive part for sintering, but so would replacing the belt too.
   
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BrianTRice

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2016, 02:46:50 AM »

I look forward to anything someone comes up with, and willing to chip in somehow. I've got a few irons in the fire right now, just trying to make economical improvements to the bike for touring without a ton of custom fabrication (or split the cost/benefit).
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mistasam

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2016, 09:25:54 AM »

As soon as I get my bike (it cleared customs and is working it's way down to me!) I'll 3D scan it and start playing.  I'll post up some modeling ideas for you guys to check out soon!

Small stuff can be 3D printed, but bigger parts like a long belt guard would need to be CNC'd or made in pieces.  I figure if I split it into 3D printed parts, a mold could be made and the final piece could be created from carbon fiber.  But yea, I'll keep ya posted!
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MrDude_1

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2016, 07:24:11 PM »

As soon as I get my bike (it cleared customs and is working it's way down to me!) I'll 3D scan it and start playing.  I'll post up some modeling ideas for you guys to check out soon!

Small stuff can be 3D printed, but bigger parts like a long belt guard would need to be CNC'd or made in pieces.  I figure if I split it into 3D printed parts, a mold could be made and the final piece could be created from carbon fiber.  But yea, I'll keep ya posted!

What are you using to 3d scan the bike?  I can only scan small parts.
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mistasam

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2016, 02:04:17 AM »

Just a Sense 3D scanner.  The scale is 1:1 and quality is decent enough to model from.  Then when it comes to printing time, I can just do some test fits to make sure it works  :D
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yhafting

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I look forward to anything someone comes up with, and willing to chip in somehow. I've got a few irons in the fire right now, just trying to make economical improvements to the bike for touring without a ton of custom fabrication (or split the cost/benefit).


Before i removed the pebbles i got into the belt i took a few photos showing where i believe it is most likely that debris would enter the belt. From my brief experience, rocks at a certain size seems most likely to get stuck within the belt. If you look at the attached pictures i have marked the areas i think should be of particular interest when making a belt guard.

I believe the motor cog wheel (1, red) might chew on pebbles falling down from above, either directly from the wheel or those that fall down from the engine (2, blue). Without a proper mudguard, this area gets filled with small pebbles under the wrong conditions. I would guess that this is quite likely what has happened with most of the pebbles i got embedded in my belt.

It is also possible that some rocks would land on the belt going from the motor cogwheel to the rear wheel (3, yellow), but since the distance here is several centimeters, i would guess it is less likely that rocks landing here would stay on the belt long enough to be chewed by the rear wheel cogwheel.

I've also noted that gravel may land on the belt from inside the current rear wheel hugger, as the belt is exposed from the inside as shown in picture 2 (4, red). Last way of entry would be from below the swingarm (5, cyan)- where the rear wheel cogs may chew anything that may enter at that height. I would guess pebbles entering the rear wheel cogwheel would most likely either come from meeting traffic or the front wheel. I'm not sure if it is possible or likely for pebbles from the rear wheel to go there.

Now from what i've seen, i am currently focusing on two things.
A: Prevent gravel from landing in the area around the motor & suspension.
B: Prevent debris gathered in the engine area from falling onto the motor cogwheel.

As an option for later, id might also look at
C: prevent rocks from entering the rear wheel cog wheel.

I have already made a temporary solution (shown in the third picture) that has reduced the amount of gravel landing on the motor with 90% or more. Now i am planning on making something more permanent and durable, but that may take some time. I have ordered a cheap plastic mudguard to see if i can make it fit. 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Black-Outstanding-Rear-Mudguard-Fender-Accessory-Prevent-For-Harley-/251719364694?hash=item3a9ba4b056:g:cYoAAOSw~FNUZyo~
I'll have to see if i am able to make it fit, and look half decent. I guess i can attach it to the existing rear wheel hugger plastic, but i have to come up with some way of attaching it on the sides. If it can be decent enough, i will see if i can make some sort of bracket attached to the swing arm that would extend (or hold a piece of metal that would extend) all the way up to the plastic mudguard i've ordered.

In addition to this, i am looking at the possibility of creating a belt guard for the front area. Now as this may not have to be very big, i hope to make something 3D-printable. I guess it has to be made in a way that it can be securely attached under the current hugger, using the same screw, and it would have to extend above the belt, deflecting pebbles from both the rear wheel area and those falling off the engine. The hard part here is that it should ideally touch the engine to avoid pebbles from falling from it, and it has to be strong enough to sustain wind and have an angle that would deflect rocks from all sides approaching the belt. I have a few ideas to follow, but it will be a rather complex design, likely requiring several attempts of printing.

There are a few concerns i have with creating a belt guard for the front end of the belt.
- having plastic touching the motor might not be great (ideally the part should be metal).
- the swing arm will be moving with respect to the engine, so there has to be space in between.
- creating something that doesnt break (again, ideally metal)

..
I guess these are my current thoughts about belt guard. Any thoughts or suggestions?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 04:29:53 AM by yhafting »
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BrianTRice

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2016, 06:59:03 AM »

I guess these are my current thoughts about belt guard. Any thoughts or suggestions?


This sounds like a fine plan to me. I had been focussed on mirroring the top guard but now I see that that's not the full story.


I think I'm just curious at this point about a secure and known fitment, for S and then checking the DS.
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mistasam

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Re: Belt guard [Zero 2013+]
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2016, 02:05:30 AM »

Great details!  That's a lot to think about.  I guess there's always something like this:



With some air slits in it, and something to allow it to pivot with the swingarm.  Although I feel like we could get away with a lower guard (mirroring the top style) and a bigger piece that shields the motor.
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