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Author Topic: Do Zeros get jealous?  (Read 766 times)

Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Do Zeros get jealous?
« on: December 31, 2015, 04:39:10 AM »

My 2015 FX is dead! Worked flawlessly until I parked the 2016 FXS next to it.
Now it is dead, no click, no power, nothing! Checked fuses in fuse box and 25a fuse on harness. All looked ok visibly, did not check w/ meter. Checked power outlet, cord, swapped cord, etc. What else can I check? It did just get cold here (barely freezing) and temp in garage is high 30s. Other bike is fine, 100% charge. Could this be a case of jealousy? Any help is appreciated!

Thanks Say10
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BenS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2015, 05:05:11 AM »

So the battery packs are fine(LED's, tested in the FXS)? The 25A fuse that you checked, was that the ABS fuse(which, by the way, you can remove to disable ABS without having to do the button procedure every time!!!)?

The main fuses are located behind the left and right rubber covers at the bottom of the frame. Pages 5.29 and 5.30 in the manual!

The 2015 FX manual says: "Note: To prevent battery damage, the BMS will prevent the charger from charging the battery at a temperature below 32°F (0°C). As long as the battery was initially topped off by the charger above 32°F (0°C) and remains on the charger through the winter at temperatures above -31°F (-35°C), the system will guard the battery from damage."
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 05:17:49 AM by BenS »
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2015 FX 5.7, DIY Electric "Jesse James" chopper bicycle, and DIY Electric 26" Lowrider bicycle. ('10 KTM 530exc, '06 GasGas EC250, '06 YZ450F, '06 GSXR1000.)

Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2015, 05:12:13 AM »

Ran the heater for a bit and raised garage temp. Bike itself was still cold to the touch. I understand the not charging bit (was at 100%), but shouldn't the bike still turn on?
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Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2015, 05:39:54 AM »

Good to know about the abs fuse mod! Haven't looked at the other fuses yet. I knew there was a fuse box under the "tank" ha. Glad I checked them cause two or three were not fully seated. I'll check the mains on right side next.
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BenS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2015, 06:02:03 AM »

Yeah, I only just discovered the ABS fuse mod in a Youtube comment, and then discovered it's an old trick used by mechanics to prevent a mishap while working on car brakes! So, I gave it a go on the FX, and voila, ABS finito! I'm happy as a pig in $#!t about that!
I really dislike ABS on the bike, and I nearly ended up in a stinky, bottomless mangrove bog hole one time when I forgot to turn it off! It's horrible on dirt! One other member on here mentioned that he forgot to turn it off one time, and ended up off track, in some bushes, after ABS disabled his rear brake because his front wheel was off the ground.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 06:04:51 AM by BenS »
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2015 FX 5.7, DIY Electric "Jesse James" chopper bicycle, and DIY Electric 26" Lowrider bicycle. ('10 KTM 530exc, '06 GasGas EC250, '06 YZ450F, '06 GSXR1000.)

Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 10:04:21 AM »

Checked fuse box fuses w/meter, ok. Removed rubbers and checked charger and main (1&4 I believe) ok. Couldn't find dc/dc fuse didn't want to cut thru the p/n on webbing. The other is a 70a which is shrink wrapped, left it alone. Since I had access I plugged in my quiq (brand new 1st use) to see if that did anything. Got a charger error on charger, 2 flashing triangles, reset charger etc. What are the LEDs on 1 battery? Should they light up or something? Seems like onboard charger quit?! This bike was flawless until I bought a second. Haven't ruled out jealousy!!
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BenS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2015, 11:02:14 AM »

They did have a few bad on-board chargers earlier on, but somehow got that sorted. That was one of the main things I was worried about when I bought my bike, 'cause I'm more than 800kms away from the dealer!

Yeah, there should be a flashing LED on the battery pack. I just checked one of my battery packs that was sitting on the floor, because I went for a ride last night using only one battery, and the LED, although it was flashing when I first removed it, had stopped flashing. I pulled the one in the bike out, and it has the flashing LED, then put the other one in, and it says 100% charge, so the LED must stop flashing after a while if it's not connected to the bike.

Quick charger LED codes: Page 4.13 in manual

Dash LED codes: Page 6.2 - 6.4
Other dash codes 6.5 - 6.7

Battery pack LED codes: 6.9 - 6.12

« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 11:19:02 AM by BenS »
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2015 FX 5.7, DIY Electric "Jesse James" chopper bicycle, and DIY Electric 26" Lowrider bicycle. ('10 KTM 530exc, '06 GasGas EC250, '06 YZ450F, '06 GSXR1000.)

BenS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2015, 12:16:31 PM »

So, the battery pack LED must have a time-out. After 38mins, I went and checked the fully charged battery on the floor, and the LED had stopped flashing.
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2015 FX 5.7, DIY Electric "Jesse James" chopper bicycle, and DIY Electric 26" Lowrider bicycle. ('10 KTM 530exc, '06 GasGas EC250, '06 YZ450F, '06 GSXR1000.)

ctrlburn

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2015, 08:36:10 PM »

Dead dead is odd. How long between parking the 2015 FX and finding it dead?

 Low supply voltage from sharing the circuit? Check the outlet voltage while the 2016 FXS is charging.
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Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2015, 09:16:57 PM »

They were both plugged into same outlet. It was only two days max. Switched to a different circuit thinking that might be the problem, nothing. No charger, no dash, no power! I recently ordered the adaptor to charge batts out of the bike. When that arrives I will try and do that. It's just so strange that the bike was just fine plugged in 100% charge then overnight stone cold dead.
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Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2016, 03:42:38 AM »

Brought batteries inside and let them warm up. Checked voltage w/ meter, 0.0v! Swapped FXS batteries to FX and bike powered right up, phew! Showing a 21 error contactor me thinks. Must have been a combination of having both bikes plugged into same outlet and cold weather. Put the FX batteries back in the FXS to see if they would charge, no dice. Built a shelf in the house to hold all 4 batteries and QuiQ charger. Hopefully once I get the adapter I can charge them all up for the winter.
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Electric Terry

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2016, 07:13:09 AM »

I believe the Sevcon sends the signal to close the contactor, so what you describe with the volt meter sounds normal.  Although I don't have an FX and can't try this myself, I'll bet if you measure the voltage of the FXS batteries, I would be willing to bet they are 0.0v also.

Plugging 2 bikes into the same outlet should also be fine.  Both draw 650 watts.  So together they are just pulling the same power as an S, DS or SR.  So I doubt that also.

To me it sounds like the contactors on the FX batteries aren't closing.  I'm not sure if there are bent communication pins or not, but I would call the guys at Zero customer service on Jan 4th and let them run a flow chart series of tests with you if you feel capable.  The fact you went probing with a volt meter makes me think you would like to try.  Otherwise I would suggest getting the bike to your dealer you got it or the FXS from right away.

I have a feeling your batteries are happily charged at 100% inside, it's just hibernating and not allowing you access the stored energy for some reason that is keeping the contactor open.   Although the fact both batteries are acting strange is odd.

Actually take it to the dealer and have them pull a BMS log.   This will answer all the questions right away and verify the voltage of all 28 cells and tell you what error it is unhappy about.
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BenS

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2016, 07:34:30 AM »

I believe the Sevcon sends the signal to close the contactor, so what you describe with the volt meter sounds normal.  Although I don't have an FX and can't try this myself, I'll bet if you measure the voltage of the FXS batteries, I would be willing to bet they are 0.0v also.
Yep, my fully charged(working) FX pack reads 0v at the main terminals too.
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2015 FX 5.7, DIY Electric "Jesse James" chopper bicycle, and DIY Electric 26" Lowrider bicycle. ('10 KTM 530exc, '06 GasGas EC250, '06 YZ450F, '06 GSXR1000.)

KrazyEd

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2016, 12:40:34 PM »

My understanding is that if you have batteries of different voltages in an FX, it will still operate.
Have you tried one FXs and one FX battery to see what if anything happens?
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ctrlburn

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Re: Do Zeros get jealous?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2016, 01:11:43 PM »

Plugging 2 bikes into the same outlet should also be fine.  Both draw 650 watts.  So together they are just pulling the same power as an S, DS or SR.  So I doubt that also.
I was not as concerned about excessive draw, I was concerned about voltage drop putting one charger below thresholds, or just electrical noise.
My 2013 S went into serious fits while sharing the circuit with a vacuum cleaner that I hadn't the nerve observe for more details or to retest.  No telling (to me) what the long term impact of these fits would have been.

Anyway the question for me still stands - with the FXS plugged in and charging, what is the voltage on the outlet?

The utility power conditions might be passed too - power is only stable if you view in general terms.
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