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[mrwilsn]

I don't think you see what you think you see. They were running a home built pack ~150V with a high voltage sevcon gen4.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

I stand corrected.

No its a longer brick Ive seen one at refuel; the fx platform only needs a tiny kick in the pants to be an amazing bike (for myself who has a power/throttle addiction just on the acceleration), maybe this will help close this gap, heck a little extra range never hurts

Unfortunately, in the past Zero has made it pretty clear they don't want to go to a higher voltage.  So unless they have had a change of heart I doubt we would see this improvement directly from Zero for a factory bike.

[mrwilsn]

I don't think you see what you think you see. They were running a home built pack ~150V with a high voltage sevcon gen4.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Is the battery physically bigger/frame longer? Or is it just a custom build for a higher voltage?

[Cortezdtv]

I don't think you see what you think you see. They were running a home built pack ~150V with a high voltage sevcon gen4.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

I stand corrected.

No its a longer brick Ive seen one at refuel; the fx platform only needs a tiny kick in the pants to be an amazing bike (for myself who has a power/throttle addiction just on the acceleration), maybe this will help close this gap, heck a little extra range never hurts

Unfortunately, in the past Zero has made it pretty clear they don't want to go to a higher voltage.  So unless they have had a change of heart I doubt we would see this improvement directly from Zero for a factory bike.

We both stand corrected on that bike, but I know what I saw at refuel, if were lucky maybe it will make it to all the bikes soon



You can gain with the battery without going to higher voltage

[mrwilsn]

I'll answer my own question....Gen5 brings better Anti-Tamper...not cool if you like to mod.  Although SEVCON just provides the features...it would be up to Zero to use them.

http://gen5.sevcon.com/

OEM intellectual property is secure and protected

But it also looks like Gen5 line does support low voltage...or at least plans to.  I could only find a spec sheet for the size 9 which says 128V to 430V.  Maybe the size 7 will support lower voltage?  Or maybe they plan to have low voltage models but they just aren't available yet?

And the Gen5 size 7 is 75kW so if it supports Zero's voltage range then it seems more likely than two 420A controllers.

The Gen5 range will support a wide range of voltages (24 V DC to 800 V DC) that are matched to the needs of the automotive and commercial transport markets.

[Burton]

We should really be looking at the 2016 "wishlist" style thread as any changes made to the 2017 bike were likely made a while ago and are long since fixed and not changing.

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5055.0

[protomech]

I don't think you see what you think you see. They were running a home built pack ~150V with a high voltage sevcon gen4.

Ah.. interesting. I wonder if they used the 29 Ah cells, or something new? And one string or two? One string might have enough energy to get the bike up the mountain .. two strings would give more power.

1. I think IPM across the board is likely.  It only makes sense to keep the number of different motors they make to a minimum. 75-5 for the FX/FXS, 75-7 for the S/DS and 75-7R for the SR/DSR.  Which just means that the FX and S/DS ZF9.8 get upgrades to IPM but Zero eliminates two part numbers from their inventory.

3. I'm not sure Zero would do the dual 420A controllers unless they could do it without adding liquid cooling...which I'm not sure can be done...I'm not sure the IPM cooling improvements get you there....maybe.  But I don't think Zero will go through the effort to integrate dual controllers if it means they have to add liquid.

4. Seriously....when is Zero going to make a bike with with a proper sport bike fairing??

5. I'm not familiar with the Gen5 controller.  If SEVCON made an LV version, what does Gen5 bring to the table?

6. Does Farasis have higher capacity cells on the market??  If they use the same cells as 2016 then I think it is highly likely that the power tank will get the boost.  Someone said when they sent their for the 2013 monolith upgrade their bike came back with a ZF13.  They may already be delivering ZF3.3 power tanks without advertising it.

Bear in mind this is all speculation.

The dual 420A controllers is a shot in the dark. I know there's been some speculation about it, and I don't doubt Zero has discussed it internally. It does make a more complex system, and if a higher-amp Gen5 controller is on the verge of being released, maybe it doesn't make sense.

On the other hand.. the 2014-2015 SRs were clearly thermally motor-limited, and I think they were game-changers for Zero. 2016 SR moved the limit back to the battery pack, I believe, for 20+ minute type track events. Powering dual 420A controllers would certainly shift more heat load to the battery and motor. Enough to make the bikes unusable at full power? Maybe so.

Zero has also released short-term upgrades before - the 2012 S motor comes to mind, a Motenergy design with significant Zero customizations. This was released a year before the new sealed ZF motors were introduced. Likewise, the 2013s used an array of Meanwell LED controllers to charge before they were replaced for 2014+ with a GWP dedicated unit. So maybe even if a Gen5 is coming in the future, they might still pursue a one-off upgrade for 2017 then replace it later with a single larger controller.

I'll answer my own question....Gen5 brings better Anti-Tamper...not cool if you like to mod.  Although SEVCON just provides the features...it would be up to Zero to use them.

http://gen5.sevcon.com/

OEM intellectual property is secure and protected

But it also looks like Gen5 line does support low voltage...or at least plans to.  I could only find a spec sheet for the size 9 which says 128V to 430V.  Maybe the size 7 will support lower voltage?  Or maybe they plan to have low voltage models but they just aren't available yet?

And the Gen5 size 7 is 75kW so if it supports Zero's voltage range then it seems more likely than two 420A controllers.

The Gen5 range will support a wide range of voltages (24 V DC to 800 V DC) that are matched to the needs of the automotive and commercial transport markets.

The Gen 5 Size 7 is listed at 400V operating range on their site. It's possible there may eventually be multiple voltage ranges supported for each size, as with the Gen 4 product line. It's even possible these are sampling now and will be used for the 2017 bikes .. there's just no public datasheets available.

Hopefully the performance (power per mass, volume, cost) is increased, and perhaps with Zero and Brammo's success they will offer more powerful options in the lower voltage ranges.

Sevcon Gen 5 Size 9:
- up to 430V DC
- up to 150 kW, 400A RMS (2 min)
- glycol cooled
- 338 x 233 x 83 mm, excluding brackets and connectors
- 6.8 kg

Sevcon Gen 4 Size 8:
- up to 400V DC
- up to 100 kW, 300A RMS (2 min)
- 332 x 332 x 107 mm, excluding brackets and connectors
- 10 kg

Gen 4 -> Gen 5 increased power by 40-50%, decreased weight by 30%, and decreased volume by 45%. Hopefully similar benefits will be realized for the lower voltage line.

[protomech]

Zero introduced the $650 FX / $1000 S "Fuel for Life" promo pretty early in the sales year, in April. They

, and then rebadged the promotion as their "10th Anniversary Savings" through the end of July.

What happens after July? As with other temporary promotions that are ended - see Georgia LEAF sales, or Denmark Tesla sales - expect a sales crash once a widely publicized promotion ends.

As the riding season winds down and the promotion expires, one of a few things may happen:

1. Zero does nothing, because they've sold all the 2016 production they care to sell.
2. Zero will extend the promotion further throughout the rest of the year, potentially under another name. "Zero: because we HATE money" promotion has a nice ring to it. This may be incorporated into a permanent price drop, as with 2015.
3. Zero will quietly work with dealers to offer special incentives and get rid of any demo bikes. These are likely to be pretty reasonable discounts, especially after the 2017 bikes are announced.

Now, why hasn't Zero simply made the price cut permanent, as with 2015? Possibly because they're gearing up for an effective price increase in 2017 - at least relative to the promotion price that has run for most of 2016. A price bump - as in MY2015, when prices at model introduction rose a small $300 over MY2014 prices - will be poorly received unless there's significant improvements.

*rambling snipped*

Zero has extended the 10th anniversary savings ($650 FX/FXS, $1000 S/DS) through the end of August.

See dealer for details. Offer is restricted to the retail purchase of new, unregistered 2016 Zero motorcycles through an authorized Zero Motorcycles Dealer located in the United States. Excludes 10-year anniversary Zero DSR model. Offer ends August 31, 2016.

At this point the rebate has been active for five months of the year. I expect it will continue until the MY 2017 bikes are announced.

I expect for MY2017 we will either see minor changes paired with an official price drop or something new. Hoping for the latter, I suspect we will see the former.

[vfx]

Hello friends,
I'm new here because I look / wait for the MY 2017 of the DSR.
As I heared the new MY will be published at EICMA 2016 in Milano at Nov. 10-13.
Today I've done a test ride on the 2016 one - amazing.
Because I'll mostly use the DSR for commuting approx. 60 miles / 100 kilometres in total the effective range fits my behaviour, I still hope for some major upgrades in specs or features in MY 2017 like Bosch ABS 10 with combined rear and frontbrake assisstance, hill assisst and parking brake / hold function are options of this new gen ABS.
A colored display, full led lighting and optional navigation system (provided via mobile and carplay or fully onboard doesn't matter at all) are state of the art in the year 2017, aren't they?

So let's wait this some 70 days and there'll be a nice xmas gift for us. 

Greetings from Germany
Kendy

[Fred]

You guys think too small! We've got an electric motor under full control of the MCU. It can control power and engine braking. I'd like a wheelie button that will balance the bike perfectly for you. It'd just need a cheap and readily available accelerometer / gyro.

[Alan Stewart]

To add to the rumor mill, it looks like the Farasis web site has not been updated since May '15. That'aps a long time! Too busy working on secretive stuff? Going out of business?

[Richard230]

To add to the rumor mill, it looks like the Farasis web site has not been updated since May '15. That'aps a long time! Too busy working on secretive stuff? Going out of business?

Well, let's hope that they are spending more time upgrading their battery chemistry than upgrading their website. 

[kashography]

What i would like on new models 2017+:

+++ Partnership with DigiNow. Ship 10kw chargetanks, PLEASE! 
+++ More Power -> Or at least a ludicrous mode where there is full or a bit more power and torque, maybe just for a short periode of time (for drags vs ice-bikes and the advertised 3.3s 0-60). C'mon, Tesla can do it too
++ LED lamps and blinkers
++ Dual frontbrakes. Just one single one is a bit scary. it works fine, but im used to two. Imagine the one breaks on the road infront of a corner on the swiss alps at 7500feet hill down.
++ Stageless regeneretive breaking to about at least the double of the present "100%" regen power. I dont want to use my mechanical so often when i drive a little faster on twisty roads. Regeneration is just to weak for this.
++ More choice in color! I would never have picked red. But i heard u can order these seperate, but is costs..
++ Better quality finish on the plastic parts. I have sharp edges and brews on my tank. On the Back near the socius seat, i have a lot hair-scratches. I dont know from where, my GF always wears her leather bikesuit (how is it called in englisch?), nothing sharp or edgie. A good coating could prevent that.
+ Better mirrors (has distorton). Looks a bit cheap in comparison to my KTMs
+ Let us change the display-Infos like range and trips on the handlebar

[Bartimaeus]

To add to the rumor mill, it looks like the Farasis web site has not been updated since May '15. That'aps a long time! Too busy working on secretive stuff? Going out of business?

It's the former-- good things are coming. And the company is growing not getting smaller. A new website is in the works.
Source: I'm their systems engineer

[Justin Andrews]

Some people have been mooting a 6 brick bike.
Heres the question...
Assuming Zero does not want to change the chassis that much, is there even space on the existing chassis for a 6th brick?

[Richard230]

Some people have been mooting a 6 brick bike.
Heres the question...
Assuming Zero does not want to change the chassis that much, is there even space on the existing chassis for a 6th brick?

I am pretty sure there is not - unless the bricks get a lot smaller.     However, it has been my opinion ever since I bought my first Zero that they could use a larger chassis to allow room for more batteries, make the bike more stable when cornering and when hitting bumps, raise the load capacity somewhat and provide additional room for passenger comfort and for carrying luggage.  They have been using the same chassis since 2012 and I think it is about time for a change.