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[dhzehrbach]

Burton

The range at 70 we advertise at 70 miles.  The battery company increased the battery capacity a bit, and customers report 80 and even 90 miles ( 90 is with a 140 lb rider)  One fellow in Atlanta is running 80 miles on the Interstate commuting.  But that will not get you the 140 miles at 70 that Vetter runs.

There was a Tesla Canada to Mexico rally schedule about 2 years ago that one of the customers was going to run in pulling a little trailer about 19 inches to the trailer top that had 2 LRC battery packs in it so he could run 280 miles at Interstate speeds.  (Rally was cancelled)

We have done some more streamlining.  Basically we need to close up the holes in the cowl for no through body air flow.  That was the trick on this new motorcycle.  The handlebars are pretty wide on the LRC and could be moved inboard so the hands were behind the fairing.  We switched front fenders to a new more streamlined shape and partially hid some of the brake.  See attached bike being assembled.  The seat can be lowered easily and the windshield height reduced for some quick reductions. 

[Burton]

The 140 miles in the Ohio challenge wasn't in one go ... it is in two 70 mile sprints http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/2015-Challenge-pages/2015-VMD-Challenge-results.html

If you tack on some good chargers, button it up a bit, it will likely ride with the gas bikes just fine.

You can also cover the top half of your front wheel to get some added range as well. I would love to see a relatively unknown competitor come in and snatch the vetter challenge away from everyone with a production model bike which has little modification

Of course you could always tow extra batters as well ... some EV competitors do this.

[Erasmo]

Burton

The range at 70 we advertise at 70 miles.  The battery company increased the battery capacity a bit, and customers report 80 and even 90 miles ( 90 is with a 140 lb rider)  One fellow in Atlanta is running 80 miles on the Interstate commuting.  But that will not get you the 140 miles at 70 that Vetter runs.

There was a Tesla Canada to Mexico rally schedule about 2 years ago that one of the customers was going to run in pulling a little trailer about 19 inches to the trailer top that had 2 LRC battery packs in it so he could run 280 miles at Interstate speeds.  (Rally was cancelled)

We have done some more streamlining.  Basically we need to close up the holes in the cowl for no through body air flow.  That was the trick on this new motorcycle.  The handlebars are pretty wide on the LRC and could be moved inboard so the hands were behind the fairing.  We switched front fenders to a new more streamlined shape and partially hid some of the brake.  See attached bike being assembled.  The seat can be lowered easily and the windshield height reduced for some quick reductions.

Stop making us envious! If it weren't for the fact that you can plug them into DC fast chargers I would have ordered one already

[dhzehrbach]

I see on the Vetter site, that they do stop at the end of the 70 mile run for lunch.  About an hour.  So you are correct, I had not considered that before.  The 18 amp standard charger, if coupled with the underseat battery pack could make the trip.  If they have a place so that I could switch the charger to 220, its more than possible with only minor streamlining consisting of air gap closure, and a rear box behind the rider to hold all of the grocery bags that would blend in the tail more.  If I were to run the Challenge, I would prefer to do it with a stock looking bike if possible.  But the seat is an arc underneath and a lot of space there, so it could be lowered another 3-5 inches without touching the bodywork and then the windshield cut down to match (or eliminated)

[Burton]

There are several places to charge around the hall of fame where we stop. All are 220v with some charge point at L1

See if you can get a crew out there next year Or sponsor one of your current owners to do it.

[NEW2elec]

Sir what is the closest airport to you?

[Erasmo]

That would be probably http://www.morgantownairport.com/

[ctrlburn]

CNTRBURN---Hub motors need not turn rpm, as even on the 84 mph LRC scooter with a 13 inch wheel, its never over 1400 rpm.  On the taller 18 inch wheel, its really loafing.  So the span of rpm between 0 and max is so little the torque is very linear. 
We are a bit odd in that we heat the motors in a hot box to 300 degrees F, and then put them on the dyno.  They run there at max power as we watch the temperatures come down while running full power.  When the temps stabilize, we hold another 3 minutes of full power.  Then we check the torque and rpm, etc.  So the torque is sustainable. 

The hub motor has some advantage in that it is not buried in the chassis like the ZERO motor so it gets good cooling air.  Since it is turning, it is its own cooling fan.  The entire wheel becomes  heat sink/cooling fin. 

dhzehrbach

Hype is good and you certainly have something you are proud of, but it does tend to stray from the question.

I do feel that I've created a dialog where you shouldn't have to re-prove the validity of hub motors.

I'd like to compare your torque measurement (however it was done) to the behavior of other cycles also of Known torque (Zero S and Zero SR) that I have ridden. As the details of your methodology is more information... it still lacks the comparative. We know the front tire will not wheelie... as we try to determine what does it do with those 206 torques...

0-60?
60-0?

These do merit direct answers, and will really help establish comparatives.

[Zorgalouf]

I like the fairing! You should sell it to zero so they improve their  range a little bit more ^^

[Spoonman]

ermmm.... I'm a little concerned about this right here on alibaba...

Are these guys just switching out the powerplant?.... are they even switching out the powerplant? - that hub motor looks pretty close too.

ZEV M-S


alibaba ZX3000GT


ZEV M-S


alibaba ZX3000GT


ZEV M-S


alibaba ZX3000GT




Now I'm not for one minute suggesting that there wouldn't be added value in the work that could be done with this chinese import chassis if it were the case that things are how they appear to be from the pics above... but it does seem a little disingenuous, particularly when they claim to be a US manufacturer.

[Justin Andrews]

Anyone else starting to get a Kiwami / Terra Motors vibe here.

[dhzehrbach]

Spoonman
I recommend that before going off on a tangent, you look at the bike you just presented and its specs. 
The page you sent us to shows this Chinese bike to be:
1) Powered by little 35 ah lead battery, not 100 ah cells like the ZEV, so only 2.52 kwh which you should then realize or indicate to you that the frame is not the same.  So only 1/3rd the battery capacity indicating that this bike must be much smaller than the ZEV.
2) The wheel sizes are not 18 like the ZEV, but 17 front, and 16 inch rear.  So the frame geometery, if the same frame, would be all wrong.
3) Max power 3,000 watts, not 13,000
4) The motor is not the same at all such that besides the wrong size wheel, the right hand view of the motor shows it is made differently.
5) Swingarm is different
6) Bottom of the cowl has openings and you can see daylight clear through the bike.  So different bodywork on the cowl, even if it appears they must be buying the same light.
7) Brakes do not match
No controller visible
9) The cowling side has see through V panel, not the blue translucent panel on the ZEV. 
10) The view of the right side does not seem to show a foot brake which is required on motorcycles in Western country.
11) Max speed claimed of 60 mph.
12) Further indicating that the bike is a much smaller bike, is the weight at only 142 kg. 
11) The price of the bike is $1380.  That alone should have given you pause.  What do you think that you get for $1380.

If you or anyone else think this is a ZEV, you certainly should order one or hundreds.  The price is $1380.  Save yourself $11,110 compared to a ZEV.  Such a deal

What this does point out is one of the issues in developing products.  We use plastic mold houses in China to produce the parts.  You get 2 year maximum agreement to not sell anything you design to anyone else.  Development times on bikes run longer than that.  So sometimes at the tho year mark you can see versions of your design pop up with modifications so they can say they do not sell exactly what you designed.  At the 4 year mark they just sell your original.  We have seen this on some of the scooters. 

[Justin Andrews]

Looking at at least one of the pictures on ZEV's site I can see the same swing arm and brakes as on the Chinese bike.

My guess is that ZEV are buying these in from China as cheap Gliders and then fitting their own power train, swing arm, brakes and other items.
I suspect that the list above is a list of changes to the Chinese gliders...

[dhzehrbach]

I also notice on the Chinese web site that this bike is not certified anywhere for legal sale, not EEC, definitely not the USA.

[Justin Andrews]

The Zev Site is really weird, one of the pictures of the bike really does appear to the chinese bike, motor and swing arm, others seem to show the motor and swing arm have been replaced.
You can see it in the pictures Spoonman posted, the Top picture of the Zev-MS clearly has the same motor and swing arm of the Chinese bike, and that picture is the same one as the first picture on the http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/30.html page.