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Author Topic: I don't get it and I am really frustrated.  (Read 3206 times)

Reaper

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I don't get it and I am really frustrated.
« on: August 03, 2009, 10:38:54 AM »

I've gotta be missing something simple.  It's got to be something really basic.  But that only makes it that more annoying...

I am using a 48v Sevcon PMAC controller and a Mars brushless motor. I also have an Albright Sw-180 contactor with a 24v coil voltage and fitted with blowout magnets.  I've tried all combinations of battery voltages from 24-48v.   I have a Magura 5k-0 twist grip throttle mounted, using only the brown and blue wires at pin 11 as per the drawing here: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/pdf-downloads/millipak_pmac_wiring.pdf and  have also tried pin 10 as per the Sevcon user manual here: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/pdf-downloads/Millipak_PMAC_User_Manual_April_2006.pdf )  The black one is apparently not used.  I have the entire thing wired up... I engage the power and throw the FS1 switch at pin 4...

2 flash error.  The manual seems to indicate that being an "illegal start condition.  I've tried everything. I've tried 0-5k pin 10.  I've tried 5k-0 pin 11.  I've tried every different combination therein.   ALWAYS 2 FLASHES. I can't get this damned motor to spin if my life depended on it. 

I've read the manual twice, looking for even the smallest little detail that could lead to my error.  Nothing.  I haven't changed any settings, so everything should run at default.  Still nothing.

I've thought about abandoning my project, having a month and a half of constant tinkering down the drain.  The lot of parts even made it's way to eBay for a day before I convinced myself to have another good crack at it.

I've followed the wiring diagram to the letter with the exception of just one thing and I don't think that it should matter.  I've made FS1 and FWD the same switch and I am not even using REV at all.

My wiring is here:  http://personal.psu.edu/cer143/EV/sevconwiring2.JPG

I noted my changes on the right hand side of the drawing.

What am I missing?  Can anybody offer any guesses?  Do I need to buy the damned 250 dollar programmer just to get this to spin?

Thanks for any help fellas.  I just want the thing to work.  I've invested over a grand into this project and I want my bike to run.  Even if it doesn't run well.
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frodus

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Re: I don't get it and I am really frustrated.
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2009, 09:59:51 PM »

well, illegal start error is going to have something to do with order of startup. We need more info.... how do you start it up? whats is the order of how you turn things on?

Also, I'm almost positive FS1 and FWD cannot be initiated ON at the EXACT same time. Since you'll always be going forward, just wire it to BAT-. The issue being, the controller is looking for EITHER FWD or REV.... but if it doesn't see ANYTHING for a certain amount of time, it might fault out. i.e. keyswitch on, then you wait, then FS1/FWD is initiated... it might already have timed out. the FWD/REV switch is usually a toggle, so its either/or...and its never neither.

Another thing confusing.... is that you've got a 275A continuous key switch and 15A fuse supplying it. What is the intention of that circuit?
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Travis

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Re: I don't get it and I am really frustrated.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2009, 11:44:48 PM »

Thanks for the response. 

I had no idea that getting a motor to turn was supposed to be this difficult.

Well... I start it up by engaging the main keyswitch, and then flipping a single switch that should engage FWD and FS1 simultaneously.  REV is not used.

Several things here give me pause.

-Page 56 of the manual indicates that the controller has a "Static Return to Off" feature which requires an specific order of switches to be thrown.  Key, direction and then FS1.  Any bizarre combination therein will create a 2 flash error.  The problem is that feature is supposed to be disabled by default, so I shouldn't have a problem.

-Page 60 indicates that if either direction is selected at system startup, it will create a 2 flash error like I experienced.  I did jump the FWD connection wire originally, and that would have created such an error.  That shouldn't be an issue in the current configuration.

-Currently the keyswitch and toggle switch for FWD/FS1 are a couple of paces away from each other, and I saw that there might be a time limit from power engage to throwing the switch.  That makes sense, but again that's a feature that is supposed to be disabled by default.

FS1 according to the text must be thrown after system power on.  Jumping it to ground would probably not work as it would be closed upon system startup.  I could be true that I got some bad advice about throwing FS1 and FWD simultaneously, and it might expect some kind of order though.

I am not using a single pole double throw switch for FWD/REV, and the situation must in order to make the controller engage is that both must be off at system power up.  If the controller does in fact find the system "in gear" upon power up, it will create my 2 flash error.  That can be disabled with the programmer, but again, $250.

My key switch is a bit hefty, sure.  But the controller does in fact get power it just has some kind of illegal start condition fault. 

And this is a real headache.



well, illegal start error is going to have something to do with order of startup. We need more info.... how do you start it up? whats is the order of how you turn things on?

Also, I'm almost positive FS1 and FWD cannot be initiated ON at the EXACT same time. Since you'll always be going forward, just wire it to BAT-. The issue being, the controller is looking for EITHER FWD or REV.... but if it doesn't see ANYTHING for a certain amount of time, it might fault out. i.e. keyswitch on, then you wait, then FS1/FWD is initiated... it might already have timed out. the FWD/REV switch is usually a toggle, so its either/or...and its never neither.

Another thing confusing.... is that you've got a 275A continuous key switch and 15A fuse supplying it. What is the intention of that circuit?
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frodus

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Re: I don't get it and I am really frustrated.
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2009, 12:27:15 AM »

then get another switch

Do this:
KS on
then go FWD on
then do FS1

Check that throttle is in the 0% position too.... by this, I mean MEASURE the resistance before you hook it up, it could very well be that its drifint a little, mine was and I had to "zero" it.

This is a typical safety feature for controllers and large industrial drive systems. There is an order and if not followed exactly, it won't work. Flipping on FS1 and FWD at the same time seems like where I'd focus my effort. They need to be in that order.
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Travis

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Re: I don't get it and I am really frustrated.
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2009, 10:01:31 PM »

I've gotta be missing something simple.  It's got to be something really basic.  But that only makes it that more annoying...

I am using a 48v Sevcon PMAC controller and a Mars brushless motor. I also have an Albright Sw-180 contactor with a 24v coil voltage and fitted with blowout magnets.  I've tried all combinations of battery voltages from 24-48v. 
 I have a Magura 5k-0 twist grip throttle mounted, using only the brown and blue wires [/b]at pin 11 as per the drawing here: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/pdf-downloads/millipak_pmac_wiring.pdf and  have also tried pin 10 as per the Sevcon user manual here: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/pdf-downloads/Millipak_PMAC_User_Manual_April_2006.pdf )  The black one is apparently not used.  I have the entire thing wired up... I engage the power and throw the FS1 switch at pin 4...

2 flash error.  The manual seems to indicate that being an "illegal start condition.  I've tried everything. I've tried 0-5k pin 10.  I've tried 5k-0 pin 11.  I've tried every different combination therein.   ALWAYS 2 FLASHES. I can't get this damned motor to spin if my life depended on it. 

I've read the manual twice, looking for even the smallest little detail that could lead to my error.  Nothing.  I haven't changed any settings, so everything should run at default.  Still nothing.

I've thought about abandoning my project, having a month and a half of constant tinkering down the drain.  The lot of parts even made it's way to eBay for a day before I convinced myself to have another good crack at it.

I've followed the wiring diagram to the letter with the exception of just one thing and I don't think that it should matter.  I've made FS1 and FWD the same switch and I am not even using REV at all.

My wiring is here:  http://personal.psu.edu/cer143/EV/sevconwiring2.JPG

I noted my changes on the right hand side of the drawing.

What am I missing?  Can anybody offer any guesses?  Do I need to buy the damned 250 dollar programmer just to get this to spin?
Just a couple overlooked items
 Pin 5 seat switch to B- , strait to B- not connected to throttle
pin 5 has to be grounded to B-, for controller to turn on
Maguri throttle wires
 brown-BLACK 0-5k -- brown to pin 10 -- black to B-
blue- BLACK 5-0k  -- Blue to pin11 -- black to B-
(blue - brown incorrect)
read Maguri throttle with OHM meter
make sure brown - black reads 0-5k Ohms
              blue-black reads 5-0k Ohms
make sure Maguri throttle is good, i have seen some don't work
won't read exactly 0-5 maybe .2 to 5.4 or .3 to 4.7  or reverse for blue - black wires
before start Foward, FS1 off, key off
start sequence
to start - key on
controller  verifies seat switch to B- you are sitting on seat,
vehicle can not take off without driver
controller comes on (no blinks on LED we hope) solid on
few seconds contactor engages
wait 3 seconds
turn on Forward, FS1
default should be, can switch both at same time
hope  i was able to help
I havn't worked on millipaks but have set up wired several  Sevcon Powerpaks
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Reaper

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Re: I don't get it and I am really frustrated.
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2009, 11:46:15 PM »

Thanks for the fantastic replies and great information, but I think I am going to do a total project overhaul.  I am sure that all of the parts work, but I think that brushless was a bit too advanced for a new ecomodder like myself.  I've put all my parts up on ebay.

I think I'll go with the standard Etek/Alltrax combination for the next go around.  I understand that it's a bit more forgiving.

Thanks very much for the information fellas.
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frodus

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Re: I don't get it and I am really frustrated.
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2009, 12:09:38 AM »

link?
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Travis

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Re: I don't get it and I am really frustrated.
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2009, 12:47:20 AM »

link?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brushless-Etek-DC-Motor-with-Sevcon-Controller-extras_W0QQitemZ270462309513QQ#ht_802wt_973

That's all my stuff. 

Just tired of screwing with it.  I kept reminding myself that if I went DC, really all I'd have to do is hook up a 12v battery and I'd be done.  It's maddening.

I did do the ohm meter on the throttle again though.  It read .01k-5.5k.  I don't know if it was the oils in my skin increasing the resistance or whatever though. 
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