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Author Topic: DigiNow Super Charger  (Read 5048 times)

Electric Cowboy

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DigiNow Super Charger
« on: October 16, 2015, 01:19:09 PM »

Here is a photo of a Pre-Production testing model.

PhreaK

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2015, 01:34:05 PM »

Nice work! Any chance you can post full specs / tech details here so that you're not assaulted with the same questions from all of us via email?
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Doug S

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2015, 08:35:20 PM »

Agreed, I think a public string for questions makes a lot of sense. I'll start with a couple I have.

In some of the press that's come out, you mention that better airflow in free air means if you install the charger in a top box, you can charge faster (I read 10kW vs 8kW for "tank" mounting). But if I somehow contrive to create better airflow in the tank area (I'm thinking in terms of installing a hefty 12VDC blower), can I crank up the performance to equal the free air performance? Related, it sounds like the unit has internal thermal protection to keep itself from overheating, is that true?

Also I'm curious about the "app" that Patrick and I both noticed mentioned on our invoices. Is that going to be a Bluetooth app? Will it have other functions than just setting a power level?
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Erasmo

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 11:06:42 PM »

If this is going the the be the question thread I can roll with that, I planned on sending an email but this way the information can be spread faster.

I'm considering to buy a Zero to replace the ICE for my commute but with 194km on the motorway and 50km on backroads I have to charge halfway at a Fastned station. Since they provide 50kW DC Chademo/CSS and 43kW AC Mennekes supplying the input shouldn't be a problem.
However it is unclear to me if the Super Charger also accepts DC power and if so what output you can achieve, both in the tank and in a topbox, could somebody please shine some light on that?
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kingcharles

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2015, 02:39:22 AM »

If this is going the the be the question thread I can roll with that, I planned on sending an email but this way the information can be spread faster.

I'm considering to buy a Zero to replace the ICE for my commute but with 194km on the motorway and 50km on backroads I have to charge halfway at a Fastned station. Since they provide 50kW DC Chademo/CSS and 43kW AC Mennekes supplying the input shouldn't be a problem.
However it is unclear to me if the Super Charger also accepts DC power and if so what output you can achieve, both in the tank and in a topbox, could somebody please shine some light on that?
The mennekes is a combo plug and includes the DC terminals.
I was unable to charge my Brammo there. So you need to have the right adapter and communication for it to work. I assume that this could be a bit tricky.
There are no sockets only plugs at the Fastned stations.
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Erasmo

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 03:21:17 AM »

If this is going the the be the question thread I can roll with that, I planned on sending an email but this way the information can be spread faster.

I'm considering to buy a Zero to replace the ICE for my commute but with 194km on the motorway and 50km on backroads I have to charge halfway at a Fastned station. Since they provide 50kW DC Chademo/CSS and 43kW AC Mennekes supplying the input shouldn't be a problem.
However it is unclear to me if the Super Charger also accepts DC power and if so what output you can achieve, both in the tank and in a topbox, could somebody please shine some light on that?
The mennekes is a combo plug and includes the DC terminals.
I was unable to charge my Brammo there. So you need to have the right adapter and communication for it to work. I assume that this could be a bit tricky.
There are no sockets only plugs at the Fastned stations.
The older stations have sockets, iirc there are five of them. And they only supply 22kW, what is this, 2014? :o ;D

I'm guessing you mix up the CCS with the high power AC mennekes for cars that carry their own hefty charger like the Renault Zoe.

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Doug S

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 03:22:47 AM »

The mennekes is a combo plug and includes the DC terminals.

kingcharles, I believe Erasmo was asking whether the new Diginow charger can use DC as an input source, and I believe the answer will be 'yes', but not immediately. IIRC, one of the press releases said that they were going to provide J1772 and 14-50 input here in the states, Mennekes AC in Europe, with CCS and CHAdeMO to follow soon. The charger itself has an AD/DC input stage, and is pretty flexible on voltage as well, which they did on purpose so they can use as many sources as possible.
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NoiseBoy

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2015, 05:15:07 AM »

I'm guessing you mix up the CCS with the high power AC mennekes for cars that carry their own hefty charger like the Renault Zoe.

Sorry to be pedantic but the Zoe doesn't carry a hefty charger. It uses the inverter to charge at up to 60KW 3 phase. If every EV used such an elegant solution we wouldn't need big expensive DC chargers everywhere.
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Electric Cowboy

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2015, 09:07:14 AM »

Great info in here, I'm glad so many people are getting a good understanding of the charger. What Doug said is correct.

Also, to do 193km you would probably need a power tank, and then the Super Charger in the top case. You would want the extra battery to safely travel that range I think.

Erasmo

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2015, 02:50:24 PM »

I'm guessing you mix up the CCS with the high power AC mennekes for cars that carry their own hefty charger like the Renault Zoe.

Sorry to be pedantic but the Zoe doesn't carry a hefty charger. It uses the inverter to charge at up to 60KW 3 phase. If every EV used such an elegant solution we wouldn't need big expensive DC chargers everywhere.
I meant that but worded it wrong. The problem with it is that you can't charge faster than your controller can deliver and that cooling can become a problem without driving airflow.

Great info in here, I'm glad so many people are getting a good understanding of the charger. What Doug said is correct.

Also, to do 193km you would probably need a power tank, and then the Super Charger in the top case. You would want the extra battery to safely travel that range I think.
When given both choices, what would yield the best results qua output, DC or AC input?

I will definitively opt for the power tank, but I first have to wait until the 2015's go into clearance sale before I can even think about affording one. An 2015 S with power tank goes at the moment for €18848 and there are no rebates in the Netherlands.
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Doug S

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2015, 08:32:46 PM »

It uses the inverter to charge at up to 60KW 3 phase. If every EV used such an elegant solution we wouldn't need big expensive DC chargers everywhere.

I know that Energica is doing that, but doesn't it require an AC induction motor to act as a transformer? I could be mistaken but I don't think it's possible with our permanent magnet-type motors.
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Lecram

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2015, 09:26:02 PM »

I will definitively opt for the power tank, but I first have to wait until the 2015's go into clearance sale before I can even think about affording one. An 2015 S with power tank goes at the moment for €18848 and there are no rebates in the Netherlands.

There are benefits, no road and luxury taxes (MRB and BPM). And for self-employed people are great benefits like "Kleinschaligheidsinvesteringsaftrek (KIA)" and "Milieu Investeringsaftrek (MIA)", even for used bikes if these are younger than 6 months or have less than 6k kms. Do you want to buy the Zero as a private person or as a self employed?
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Lecram

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2015, 09:29:03 PM »

I'm guessing you mix up the CCS with the high power AC mennekes for cars that carry their own hefty charger like the Renault Zoe.

Sorry to be pedantic but the Zoe doesn't carry a hefty charger. It uses the inverter to charge at up to 60KW 3 phase. If every EV used such an elegant solution we wouldn't need big expensive DC chargers everywhere.

This is the Zoe charger:

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NoiseBoy

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2015, 01:04:52 AM »

It uses the inverter to charge at up to 60KW 3 phase. If every EV used such an elegant solution we wouldn't need big expensive DC chargers everywhere.

I know that Energica is doing that, but doesn't it require an AC induction motor to act as a transformer? I could be mistaken but I don't think it's possible with our permanent magnet-type motors.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to understand the patents but I believe the motor coils are used to add inductance.  I imagine you could do the same with the coils in a PMAC but will leave it to an EE to confirm.  Apparently they redesigned the motor and controller for 2015 so the motor is now 15% more efficient.  It also said charging has increased but it doesnt say what to.
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Electric Cowboy

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Re: DigiNow Super Charger
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2015, 02:49:08 AM »


When given both choices, what would yield the best results qua output, DC or AC input?

I will definitively opt for the power tank, but I first have to wait until the 2015's go into clearance sale before I can even think about affording one. An 2015 S with power tank goes at the moment for €18848 and there are no rebates in the Netherlands.

You could also get a 2014.

DC will provide the best input, but only because it will produce slightly less loss through thermal. Meaning, it makes less heat s will be more efficient... slightly.

In reality, both AC and DC can give the same power out, and for the next few months, we don't have a DC plug with Chademo or CCS communication, so AC is best option now.
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