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Author Topic: ABS failure on dirt?  (Read 1506 times)

mguw

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ABS failure on dirt?
« on: August 30, 2015, 03:25:37 PM »

Hi guys

I have my fx5.7 for one week now and really enjoy it for my commute. Lots of fun..   (Coming from a duke 690)

Yesterday I took her to the cross track and after a whoops wheelie the ABS got screwed up and I had no brakes at all at the end of the straight line!   I ran straight in the bushes!

I could feel the hard lever and vibrating action for the ABS and no braking power at all. Neither Front nor rear also rear is understandable.

Usually I would disconnect the ABS but this time I forgot....

Did somebody already experience that? I am scared now it could happen under other circumstances. 

Is there a way to disconnect it permanently?


A+ Marcel

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BenS

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2015, 07:07:19 PM »

That's interesting! I've had my FX for a few weeks now, but have always turned ABS off for dirt. I'd like to have the option of having it "off" by default.
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2015 FX 5.7, DIY Electric "Jesse James" chopper bicycle, and DIY Electric 26" Lowrider bicycle. ('10 KTM 530exc, '06 GasGas EC250, '06 YZ450F, '06 GSXR1000.)

firepower

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2015, 04:03:58 AM »

If it fails thats a safety issue, it should not fail at all.

sure on dirt it may not be useful and be disabled but it should not cause brake failure.
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NoiseBoy

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2015, 04:08:30 AM »

Are you sure it was the ABS and not a different part? I thought ABS systems were usually incapable of completely bypassing the brakes as a failsafe?
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grmarks

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2015, 06:52:19 AM »

As a total guess, could some air have got in the lines from the whoops?
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ctrlburn

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2015, 11:28:25 AM »


I went looking at Bosch and there are a range of ABS solutions available and the 2015 FX manual is not much more informative to which system is installed or define the operations.

There are some "old threads" on other forums (some ABS phobic hyperbole) but this one from 2007 resonated:

http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/default.aspx?f=17&m=377069

Bottom line, this ABS is a "linked" type in that the brakes aren't linked but the ABS system is; most common fault is when the rear suspension undergoes substantial compression followed by rebound...the ABS "reads" that as low traction and DECREASES FRONT BRAKE PRESSURE!  It is clearly in the Manual...and BMW is stonewalling.



I'm not finding much Bosch collaboration from the time, and guessing some changes took place in the technology over the past several years or perhaps the owners manuals have faded on the intent of off-road usage. 

I'll keep searching.
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Justin Andrews

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2015, 03:41:44 PM »

ABS on motorbikes is a seriously dumb idea, especially on dirt, but the f*@%tards in Brussels has legislated that all motorbikes must have it.
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steven_first

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2015, 03:59:48 PM »

I talked with Zero at length about this and the end result was them calling Bosch and them (Bosch) saying that it is too great of a relative speed difference between the 2 wheels. There is nothing wrong with the system and this is normal behavior.  They told me that they would be rewriting the manual to include this detail in the future.  I was a bit surprised myself when this happened but now that I know it is normal it does not bother me at all.
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mguw

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2015, 04:45:38 PM »

Thanks for all the answers

I did some rethinking about this and believe it is normal.

Think about trying to decelerate in dirt without stalling the rear,  it is impossible.  If then the front is released it is just not working.

I will do some trials on purpose to confirm.
Bottom line is don't forget to switch off this %@#& ABS

I agree with Justin,  abs and motorcycle doesn't match

A+ Marcel

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mguw

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 11:54:19 PM »

Hi

I made some tests today,  even on the road you can fool the ABS.

Try this:

Brake hard on the front without rear and then hit hard the rear,  the ABS will release your front for no reason!

Or this

Break hard on rear and then your front will be very weak..

ZERO ,  Please give us an option to disconnect this sh%t permanently,  it is Non sense on a dirt bike.



A+ Marcel

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Kocho

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2015, 07:09:29 AM »

That seems like a very bad logic for the ABS! Probably because, as someone mentioned above, the front and rear ABS are linked and not independent... Cost-cutting?

I wonder what happens if both the front and rear brakes are squeezed hard (to lock) on dry or wet (not dirt)? 

Oh, and I don't think "non ABS" is necessarily better anymore (or at least decent ABS systems are very good today)



https://rideapart.com/articles/motorcycle-abs-work?page=3



Hi

I made some tests today,  even on the road you can fool the ABS.

Try this:

Brake hard on the front without rear and then hit hard the rear,  the ABS will release your front for no reason!

Or this

Break hard on rear and then your front will be very weak..

ZERO ,  Please give us an option to disconnect this sh%t permanently,  it is Non sense on a dirt bike.



A+ Marcel
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 07:35:17 AM by Kocho »
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mguw

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2015, 06:04:18 PM »




I wonder what happens if both the front and rear brakes are squeezed hard (to lock) on dry or wet (not dirt)? 

I made some hard braking tests today on an excellent dry road.

Stop distance from 90km/h by squeezing all I can both brake with ABS is 34m...  Squeezing only front is about the same.

But when I disconnect the ABS I am able to stop in 21m if I do a good job...

So from now on I will disconnect ABS every time which is a pain in the ass...

Next rain,  I'll try on the wet...





A+ Marcel

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rayivers

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2015, 06:31:26 PM »

Can the front & rear ABS wheel sensors be unplugged?  It seems this works on many cars, perhaps it's the same with the Zero ABS.

ray
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'14 Zero FX 5.7 (now 2.8, MX), '14 Zero FX 2.8 (street), '08 YZ250F, '82 RM250Z, '75 MR175, '74 CR125M (175cc)

Kocho

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2015, 04:19:50 AM »




I wonder what happens if both the front and rear brakes are squeezed hard (to lock) on dry or wet (not dirt)? 
That's really disappointing! Or something is wrong...A good ABS should not have such a big penalty (if any) on dry road braking!


... on an excellent dry road.

Stop distance from 90km/h by squeezing all I can both brake with ABS is 34m...  Squeezing only front is about the same.

But when I disconnect the ABS I am able to stop in 21m if I do a good job... 

A+ Marcel
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'15 Zero SR

mguw

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Re: ABS failure on dirt?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2015, 10:15:38 PM »

Hi

I tested today on a wet road.  There the ABS is nice,  I have to admit.  But forget the rear brake.    Only rear is like no braking at all, no surprise here,  but don't use it if you need to brake hard.  Use Front only,  because as soon as you hit rear,  front gets weaker.

A+ Marcel

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