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Author Topic: Wierd charger question  (Read 1374 times)

xmjsilverx

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Wierd charger question
« on: July 01, 2015, 07:46:03 AM »

Okay so I got the delta q in the mail today and hooked the bike up to the same outlet I always hook it up to and then hooked the delta q up to a different circuit.  All seemed well for a while but then the circuit breaker flipped on the on board charger.  This is the same outlet I always use and it is a 15 amp and no other loads are running on it besides garage lights.  It has done this 3 times now and it always takes about the same amount of time.  Is there something I don't understand about the charger setup?  Why is the onboard pulling more with the delta q hooked up?  On an unrelated note: I got the medium leather jacket and it is way too big for me.  The site has said sold out of smalls for a while now.  Has anyone contacted Zero about getting a small?
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oobflyer

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2015, 10:27:15 AM »

The onboard charger draws 12.5A
The Delta-Q draws between 9A-10A

There may be another load on the same (15A?) circuit that is adding the additional 2A or 3A to trip the circuit breaker. This happened to me a couple of times (always at a friend's house where I didn't know what else was drawing current on the same circuit).

In my garage I have a 20A circuit and a 15A circuit - if I want to plug the onboard and the Delta-Q in at the same time I can plug the onboard charger into the 20A circuit and the Delta-Q into the 15A circuit.

Since I got the new Delta-Q I have to really be careful as the combination of chargers draws nearly 40A.

I plugged into a J1172 last week, but it had a 32A limit, so I found a separate 120V outlet for one of the Delta-Q chargers (I took this picture last month before I received my third charger).

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kphonik

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2015, 09:24:32 PM »

I've got to get my own Kill-a-watt. Any suggestions on the right model? And any chance they have a connected version I could monitor via wi-fi or BT?

And with that I'll go and do my own googling - just thought I'd throw it out here...
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xmjsilverx

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2015, 03:31:19 AM »

Well I think I probably figured it out.  The outlet I plugged the delta q in was a gfi and for some reason I thought if I hit test and tripped that then all the outlets on that circuit would go out.  Obviously I was a moron because that outlet must be on the same circuit as the onboard charger.  I guess I need to run a separate circuit out to the garage.  Sorry for wasting your time.
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Doug S

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2015, 06:52:49 AM »

...I thought if I hit test and tripped that then all the outlets on that circuit would go out.  Obviously I was a moron...

I wouldn't say you're a moron. If properly installed (the first device on the circuit -- i.e. closest to the breaker box, and with the "line" and "load" sides properly connected) a GFI should protect all devices on the circuit. Sounds like your GFI isn't properly installed...either it's not the first device on the circuit or the "line" and "load" sides aren't hooked up correctly. I'm and EE and it probably would have taken me a while to figure out too.

Your electrician is the moron. You should find a new one. ;-)
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JasonS

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2015, 08:00:32 AM »

I've got to get my own Kill-a-watt. Any suggestions on the right model? And any chance they have a connected version I could monitor via wi-fi or BT?

I'm not aware of a connected (wifi or BT) version.  If you find one, please let us know.

That said, I have a P4400 and a P4460 (the "EZ").

The 4460 allows you to set a cost per KWh and has persistent storage, so if you lose power, it doesn't reset.  It also has a reset button so that you CAN reset it.  It's set up to allow you to easily estimate monthly (or weekly, daily, yearly, IIRC) cost of a device plugged into it. 

The 4400 does not allow you to set up a cost per KWh, is reset by unplugging it (or interrupting power in some other way), and does not do any computations.  Not even KWh consumed per mo/yr/dy/week, as I thought it could.  It will keep track of KWh consumed, or course, so you can do the math yourself.

I bought the 4460 first ($27), then bought the 4400 later ($17) because I thought the only differences were the persistent storage and the ability to enter $/KWh.  Had I known it also couldn't calculate KWh per (month, day, year, etc), I would have bought another 4460.  That said, depending on what you want, the 4400 may be perfect.  It's just less useful for estimating consumption over long periods if you don't keep track of when it was last reset.

OH!  And something that surprised me (true of both units) is that when you plug one in, it only uses one socket, but blocks access to the other as well (in a 'normal' style US outlet).  Doesn't matter which (top or bottom) outlet you use.  Worse than a wall-wart in that regard.

Probably more info than you needed or wanted, but since I just went down that path myself, I figured I'd share.

Oh, and btw, thanks to these two devices I know that I use about 9Kwh/day (at the meter) to do my 50 mile round trip commute, or about $20/month.  I also know that the mini-split AC I installed in my garage-shop will cost me about $15/mo to leave running all the time with the thermostat set at 80F.  (That's the diff between the two units!  I know my AC usage in $/month, but my motorcycle usage in KWh/charge up. How do you want to think about it?  The 4460 make it easy to do it either way.)
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kphonik

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2015, 05:16:05 PM »

@JasonS - That's exactly the info I was looking for! I read up for a bit yesterday and it looks like the only consumer connected options that fit my needs are the Belkin WeMo Insight - but those get seriously spotty reviews on Amazon and as such I'm not thinking it'd be good to pull 10a through it.

Looks like the kill-a-watt with NVM is what I'll end up with to track the bike consumption!

thanks again -

Jason
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nigezero

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2015, 06:30:51 PM »

Very cool stuff guys. Here in Australia I have two primary devices. A WattWatchers monitors house, solar and shed (bike)  via wifi to any device, in up to 1sec increments. Then, I have several Efergy Ego load controller / monitors that plug in and do 16A 240v. Also wifi, I can remotely program, control and monitor any outlet. I'm about to add a battery system which will synchronise and save my daily generation for the bike. The energy from my solar is free (system paid off) so I have incidental cost only.
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kphonik

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2015, 07:02:12 PM »

@nigezero - that system looks like what I was hoping to find. Looks like Wattwatchers builds them for OEM to brand and sell?

I'd settle for a per-circuit accounting if nothing else. Seems like something the local electric could offer as an upgrade.
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Cortezdtv

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2015, 07:33:16 PM »

...I thought if I hit test and tripped that then all the outlets on that circuit would go out.  Obviously I was a moron...

I wouldn't say you're a moron. If properly installed (the first device on the circuit -- i.e. closest to the breaker box, and with the "line" and "load" sides properly connected) a GFI should protect all devices on the circuit. Sounds like your GFI isn't properly installed...either it's not the first device on the circuit or the "line" and "load" sides aren't hooked up correctly. I'm and EE and it probably would have taken me a while to figure out too.

Your electrician is the moron. You should find a new one. ;-)


You should always u
Tail out gfi's.  If you use line and load it just creates more issues. You can have a gif trip making all other outlets stop working. If each outlet is tailed out and then connected to the gfi it still protects the house circuit and the gfi is doing its job but none of the line and load issues that shouldn't even be there.... Mother more frustrating than having a bad gfi that tests good trips and resets but won't my power out the load side.


Take the -+ coming in on one side twist them up with short jumpers to the outgoing side and then attach the short jumpers to the gfi
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oobflyer

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2015, 07:51:49 PM »

I have a WEMO wi-fi switch that monitors while charging. It's only 15A, so only good for the slow-charging, but it works with your smart phone and you can turn the outlet on/off remotely:

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kphonik

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2015, 10:32:20 PM »

I was considering one of those but saw very mixed reviews on Amazon. I'm not interested in their whole line of home automation - just a few of the same socket monitors you're using.

- How long have you been using it?
- Do you need to be on the same network to see the data or does it get pushed to cloud?

Thanks!
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oobflyer

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2015, 11:41:57 PM »

I've been using it for 3 or 4 months without any problems. I set the timer to turn on at midnight and off at 8AM to take advantage of the cheaper electricity rates.
Yes - it works via the 'cloud' - if I'm away from home I can still see the charging status on my phone and turn the outlet on/off - however, sometimes the connection is less reliable when away and I have to try a few times to re-establish a connection to the wi-fi switch.

I have some other WEMO wi-fi switches in the house that turn lights on/off at sunset/sunrise - the automation is cool - and you don't have to buy any 'system' - you can just buy one switch at a time and connect them to your wi-fi network as you get them.

I have had to reset the switches a few times, so I can understand the mixed reviews on Amazon, but I find they are reliable 95% of the time.
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kphonik

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2015, 12:38:10 AM »

Definitely sounds like it's worth the $50 to give it a try then, thanks for your help!
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SopFu

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Re: Wierd charger question
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2015, 02:24:45 AM »

My Kill-a-watt caught fire while I had my bike plugged into it. Reading around the EV forums, that isn't uncommon when drawing high current for extended periods of time. I would not recommend any long term or consistent use with it.
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