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Author Topic: Zero Fx power under 50%  (Read 1768 times)

FirstZeroFinland

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Zero Fx power under 50%
« on: May 09, 2015, 06:22:24 PM »
Hi everyone.
 I have been driving 2014 zero fx for month now. So far great to drive this silent wheelie machine from 100% charge to 50%. After that it feels lame ???
 Is there some limit on european version to get better range or might there be something wrong?
   Battery charges normally to full and range is 50-100km, close to 50km on my driving style :D
    I contacted to zero but no answer so far and dealer really knows BS, he´s just a seller :D
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rayivers

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2015, 06:33:43 PM »
I think that's normal.  I rode mine yesterday from 92% to 45% (mostly in the dirt), and I noticed a drop in power around 70% and then another drop at 50%. Below 50% it seems to get weaker in direct relation to charge.

I charge the bike for at least 24 hours now to let the BMS balance the cells, and it seems to run a little better.

Ray
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'14 Zero FX 5.7 (now 2.8, MX), '14 Zero FX 2.8 (street), '19 Alta MXR, '18 Alta MXR, various '74 - '08 ICE dirt bikes

FirstZeroFinland

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2015, 08:10:16 PM »
Nice to know.
 Is this thing made only for better range? I can´t think any other reason, it is not to protect battery because it can handle full power all the way down.
 I would like to decide myself if I want longer range,, this apple style shit is not for me, mode button is useless if it goes to "eco" at 70% and even more "eco" on 50%.  >:(
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 09:09:25 PM by FirstZeroFinland »
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rayivers

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2015, 08:33:34 PM »
I think the main reason the controllers are programmed this way is to make the 'apparent' state-of-charge seem longer and more consistent.  A simplistic analogy would be a flashlight; rather than start out at max brightness and immediately start getting dimmer, I think Zero chooses to start out fairly bright and stay that way for a while, then go to medium-bright for a while, etc.  I'm sure there are also protection and current-limiting considerations etc.  At first I felt as you do about it, but after living with it for over a year I think it may be the right choice.  I do wish the Custom mode allowed fine-tuning of the throttle-response curve and/or additional curve options, though.

My FX has differences in T.R. characteristics in the 3 modes at nearly all charge levels, although below 20% they're all very weak.  I forgot to mention that I only use 1 battery, but the 70% / 50% / etc. thresholds seem to exist with 1 or 2 bricks, they just last longer with 2.

Ray
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'14 Zero FX 5.7 (now 2.8, MX), '14 Zero FX 2.8 (street), '19 Alta MXR, '18 Alta MXR, various '74 - '08 ICE dirt bikes

trikester

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2015, 10:39:39 PM »
I haven't noticed this on my '13 FX. Is there a difference between '13 & '14 FX models?

Trikester
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rayivers

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2015, 11:11:47 PM »
Quote
I haven't noticed this on my '13 FX. Is there a difference between '13 & '14 FX models?

I wouldn't be surprised, as there are differences even between '14 models.  My early '14 FX (made in late Oct. 2013, I believe) feels less aggressive in both Sport and Custom modes than my later one built in Feb. 2014, though Eco mode seems identical in both.  The later one also retains its power farther down into the discharge cycle.

Ray
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'14 Zero FX 5.7 (now 2.8, MX), '14 Zero FX 2.8 (street), '19 Alta MXR, '18 Alta MXR, various '74 - '08 ICE dirt bikes

FirstZeroFinland

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2015, 06:11:20 PM »
I really love the easy wheelies with my FX. I was driving today and made my first a run with one battery only and I had to turn back after few kilometers, feels very lame and no wheelies with one pack:/
  With to batteries it feels very agressive 100-70%, and there really is the first power drop.
    I would really like to change some parameters on controller, has enyone any experiense?  :P
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FirstZeroFinland

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2015, 06:27:19 PM »
So I bought 30%race bike. 20% sportsbike and 50% moped?  :D
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steven_first

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2015, 07:31:30 PM »
My 2015 is the same way.  When you first start out it is quite the machine but as you drive and lower the charge it starts dropping.  What I expected with this bike was something more like what R/C cars with "lipo" batteries do where the top speed is what dies off but the torque remains about constant.  I knew that the cells going from 4.15V to 3.9V would drop the overall voltage of the packs but I expected the current output to stay about the same but it does not.  I have driven my bike down to about 14% charge so far and not only does the top speed become like 40MPH but getting to 40 takes much longer...  I hate to say it but that sucks a lot.  I wouldn't call it moped at that point but if you figure 100% is a 450cc then below 20% is like a 100cc.  I have been thinking about doing a Youtube review on the bike as most reviews are either very bad, not an actual review, or a "loaner bike" review where the bike was supplied by the manufacture.
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m0t0-ryder

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2015, 08:56:01 PM »
The reduction in power consumption s the battery gets depleted is by design.
A way to try to help a rider from getting stranded with a depleted battery.

NOTE: The FX only has 1/2 the horsepower when running on a single battery. Same torque but less horsepower.

The rollback on power with battery depletion was a design decision. The thought being that if full power was provided to almost full depletion (10% or so) then a rider could get themselves into a "stranded" situation. By providing less and less power as battery goes low will provide a sort of "limp home" mode.
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LiveandLetDrive

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2015, 02:24:15 AM »
Interesting that it's changed so much even in the same model year.  On my '13 5.7 I really only notice limiting when it gets down to 3 bars, and moreso the lower you get.  Maybe it's not as sharp at 50% as it is at 98% but I'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference.
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2013 Zero FX, 2005 Triumph Sprint ST, 2000 Triumph Tiger, 1970 Triumph T100R Daytona, 1970 Honda SL100  (Latter three for sale!)

trikester

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2015, 10:50:39 PM »
Quote
Interesting that it's changed so much even in the same model year.  On my '13 5.7 I really only notice limiting when it gets down to 3 bars, and moreso the lower you get.  Maybe it's not as sharp at 50% as it is at 98% but I'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference.

I ditto that.

Trikester
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FirstZeroFinland

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2015, 02:16:19 PM »
Here the answer from Zero for this question.
 
"On page 1.8 from the Owner’s Manual you will find the parameters that might influence the range of the vehicle. However the experience that you describe below is basically not mentioned on that specific page. The power algorithm that is notice by the Customer is to prevent damage on the Battery, thus to perform correctly over the lifetime. This embedded firmware, the algorithm, allows the Battery to discharge quicker from fully charged to half way down. If the State of Charge (SOC) drops below 45-50% the power is cutting back. Although I don’t know all the ins- and outs about the algorithm, you will notice a significant drop in performance below the 30 %. Basically the algorithm protects the Battery from quick discharge at low energy level, to guarantee the lifetime. This is something I personally noticed riding a 15MY FX."

 I had a long drive and drove first time down to 5%. This time I didn´t notice any power drop untill 50%, charger was plugged 24hr before this run and the previous run was just out of charger.
 Zero is not gonna leave you halfway easy, there is no horry when you are under 30% :D
 Now when I know this is normal behaviour I dont mind the power drop. Good thing there is solution for this, Quick charger is more significant thing to buy if I want to drive more with full power  :D
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steven_first

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Re: Zero Fx power under 50%
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2015, 05:33:34 PM »
Well that is good to know why this happens.  I couldn't tell exactly when it was happening but now that I know it is there I feel better about it happening.  Thanks for finding that out!
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