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Author Topic: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst  (Read 4760 times)

iSurgeon

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2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« on: March 31, 2015, 12:05:49 AM »

1st Post on here.

I Recently picked up a 2010 zero s with 320 miles on it for a reasonable price. The bike was always kept on a charger and barely used obviously. It ran fine but even with a fully charged and balanced pack the voltage would sag pretty bad after a 3 mile ride at 45mph. I was able to get around 20 miles of range out of it but any sustained speed over 40 mph would have the gas gauge flashing empty at me. The motor controller would groan from low volts any time I would go full throttle for more than a few seconds. They seemed to be taken care of as zero directed but were just old I guess? From dead to fully charged they bike would pull 2.85 kwh from the wall according to my kill-a watt

After researching on here and some other forums I decided to by 7 Nissan leaf cells from Nick at hybrid auto center who was very helpful. I would have liked to put more than 7. 11 would fit but it would be quite snug and would require breaking down 4 of them to reconfigure so I could still use the zero bms.

When I removed the old pack and tested the cell banks I was expecting to see some that were lower but on the fully charged pack they were all within 4mv of each other. 58v total. I wired everything up with the bikes bms wires to the new leaf cells,and charged the new battery on the bench with the battery box still open. The were all stored at 30% charge 3.75v if I remember correctly. Charged up to 58.

I re installed the pack yesterday and installed a cycle analyst at the same time.

I've only taken one test ride so far but it drives so much better. No controller groan so far.





« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 12:36:11 AM by iSurgeon »
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iSurgeon

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2015, 12:09:12 AM »

More pics.

Sorry they're upside down
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iSurgeon

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2015, 12:16:56 AM »

The cycle analyst I used is the 2.3 high current version with a 600a shunt. The speedometer sensor needed to be mounted 6mm or less from the magnet and that was not possible.

I cut off the sensor and tapped in to the factory speedo pickup. On the bike there a white , black ,and red wire. On the gauge there is white and black. White to white and black to black. Calibrated to 2180 in the cycle analyst settings to match the zero speedo.  I found 58v pack voltage on a white wire in the connector on the back of the zero gauge.
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trikester

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2015, 12:34:01 AM »

Did I read correctly, that after disassembling the stock battery pack the cells appeared to be OK? So you reassembled the pack with the original cells and on first ride it seems to be preforming normally?

I have no suggestions, except possibly some bad solder joints, but just wanted to make sure I understood the situation.

Trikester.
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iSurgeon

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2015, 12:38:48 AM »

No the bike now has 7 modules from the Nissan leaf in place of the 336 Molicel cells. 53v nominal 60ah. Running nice with them.
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iSurgeon

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 12:49:41 AM »

Cycle analyst data from first test ride

Max speed 61.1mph  ,  Avg Speed 28.1 ,  Time 34:34

Ride Distance 16.19Mi , Pack voltage at end 54.1 , 26.36 amp hours consumed

Watt hrs 1389.1,   Watt hours per mile 85.5 ,  Max amps 404.2 a ,Voltage Minimum 45.9v
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iSurgeon

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 01:48:08 AM »

Oh yea and the battery now weighs about 25lbs less with the 7 leaf packs vs the molicel
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protomech

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2015, 02:18:44 AM »

25 pounds lighter must be quite nice. The leaf modules (2s2p) are around 500 Wh each, so you're basically at the same capacity right? Nice upgrade!

The molicel 26650s are IMO not really suitable for long life in EVs. The data sheet for these cells shows a 300 cycle count to 80%; presumably they experience calendar aging proportionally more quickly than EIG cells.

Please update as you continue to ride and tinker.
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nigezero

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2015, 02:50:21 AM »

Intrigued: my 2010 was behaving almost identically before I swapped to s 2014. A friend pulled the pack down but suggested that trying to test and replace individual cells was impossible.
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ColoPaul

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2015, 03:51:27 AM »

Great job iSurgeon!  +1
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iSurgeon

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2015, 07:02:32 AM »

25 pounds lighter must be quite nice. The leaf modules (2s2p) are around 500 Wh each, so you're basically at the same capacity right? Nice upgrade!

The molicel 26650s are IMO not really suitable for long life in EVs. The data sheet for these cells shows a 300 cycle count to 80%; presumably they experience calendar aging proportionally more quickly than EIG cells.

Please update as you continue to ride and tinker.

Yes the weight savings was an unexpected bonus, helps with handling and whr/mile.

I'm not a fan of the molicels and I guess zero wasn't either. Mine have probably only seen 20 cycles or so but they are not performing from being at least 5 years old and maybe as old as 7 or 8 depending when zero bought them.

I'll post another update when I can take a longer ride. Hopefully tomorrow, it's supposed to be a nice 73 degree day here.
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iSurgeon

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2015, 07:13:28 AM »

Intrigued: my 2010 was behaving almost identically before I swapped to s 2014. A friend pulled the pack down but suggested that trying to test and replace individual cells was impossible.

Yea testing and replacing individual cells would be a pita.

From what I'm seeing with my pack that wouldn't have helped as all of my cells were fully charged and balanced. The just are down to about 70% of original capacity and have too much sag when big amps are asked of them.
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iSurgeon

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2015, 07:14:06 AM »

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Doctorbass

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2015, 07:15:15 AM »

Very interesting topic!

I remember i had alot of questions from people that owened some of these 2010 and 2011 S and DS requestind help from my to rebuild them a new pack.. but i have no time for that. I instead suggesting them to rebuild it with these great Nissan Leaf modules 1 or 2 years ago.

Now i see at least one have tried it!! great!!! congrat for doing it !! i was convinced that t will work. I was just not aware that these Leaf modules could fit like a glove in the original Zero box !!! wow !!

From my experience with my first Zero, a DS 2011,  when i have installed the cycle analyst i got 3000Wh from full to discharged.. the rated 2.9Ah molicells was more like 2.4 to 2.5Ah in reality when drained at the C rate teh Zero require... si it was far from the advertised 4.4kWh... witch is a false calculation of the energy and was in reality 3.9kWh suposed...

This was discussed few time in the past on that forum.

I remember i had about 60Ah from teh original Zero pack with the Molicells. and had about 50-60km real range with it.

The Leaf Modules are the exact same chemistry of the molicells with is perfect for the BMS.

If i remember correctly these modules are sold about 120$ shipped per modules.. so 7 modules is about 840$... not bad for making an older  Zero alive again!  I remember i had calculated that with the new Zero cells the old 2010 and 2011 battery box could store about 5-6kWh in the same volume!

Doc
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iSurgeon

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Re: 2010 Zero S - 7 Leaf cells and a cycle analyst
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2015, 03:38:41 AM »

Very interesting topic!

I remember i had alot of questions from people that owened some of these 2010 and 2011 S and DS requestind help from my to rebuild them a new pack.. but i have no time for that. I instead suggesting them to rebuild it with these great Nissan Leaf modules 1 or 2 years ago.

Now i see at least one have tried it!! great!!! congrat for doing it !! i was convinced that t will work. I was just not aware that these Leaf modules could fit like a glove in the original Zero box !!! wow !!

From my experience with my first Zero, a DS 2011,  when i have installed the cycle analyst i got 3000Wh from full to discharged.. the rated 2.9Ah molicells was more like 2.4 to 2.5Ah in reality when drained at the C rate teh Zero require... si it was far from the advertised 4.4kWh... witch is a false calculation of the energy and was in reality 3.9kWh suposed...

This was discussed few time in the past on that forum.

I remember i had about 60Ah from teh original Zero pack with the Molicells. and had about 50-60km real range with it.

The Leaf Modules are the exact same chemistry of the molicells with is perfect for the BMS.

If i remember correctly these modules are sold about 120$ shipped per modules.. so 7 modules is about 840$... not bad for making an older  Zero alive again!  I remember i had calculated that with the new Zero cells the old 2010 and 2011 battery box could store about 5-6kWh in the same volume!

Doc


Doc, I paid about $950 with ups hazmat shipping .

Yesterday I ran the battery down till it wouldn't move any more. Here are the numbers.
I did drive it somewhat fast. No controller groan from low volts until the very end.


33.4 Miles  48.89ah   Watt-hrs 2528.3  Amax 394.2  Vmin 41.7

Max Speed 66.3   Avg Speed 30.1mph  Time 1:06:33

To Recharging took 3.62kwh from the wall according to the kill a watt.

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