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[Joar79]

I got my Zero SR 2014 mod a month back. And I absolutely LOVE the bike. I have been waiting and looking for it for over half a year now. And my only issue have really been the range fear. Running out of power. And with a range of 170km with powerpack the only think that stops me from taking it for longer touring rides is a fast charger like CHAdeMO. And I have been questioning everyone. And sadly, Zero Motorcycles have been the quietest ones regarding this. ABB witch deliver the CHAdeMO fast chargers here in Norway (EU) they tell me they have spoken with Zero and tested the motorcycles and everything should be fine. Their fast chargers go as low as 50volts. But in the dialog with the CHAdeMO association. I found out that Zero Motorcycles are no longer a member of the CHAdeMO association. Witch saddens me a lot. I would so like to know what plans they have now. And since I know the CHAdeMO fast charger works here in Norway, I would love to buy one sett anyway. But my Zero dealer says they can get any since Zero Motorcycles do not deliver them anymore. Even tho they are still on their web page.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=162

Mail from CHAdeMO association :

Dear Mr. Joar,

Thank you for your interest in CHAdeMO.

First of all, CHAdeMO protocol is the same wherever you go in the world. However, that does not mean the motorcycles bought elsewhere would work well with all chargers in Europe, for example.

For CHAdeMO chargers meeting all requirements for the full voltage range (50V-500V), your Zero Motorcycle should be able to charge.
However, certain CHAdeMO chargers go from 250V-500V, complying with the SAE requirement of 250V lower voltage bracket, and you would have to ask the charger manufacturers you intend to use beforehand whether their chargers can go as low as 50V (or not).

It is our regret to inform you that Zero Motorcycle is no longer our member, and I suggest you continue to ask them regarding their future plans to deliver CHAdeMO inlets for their motorcycles.

Best regards,

Tomoko

--
Secretariat
CHAdeMO Association Europe


I want a CHAdeMO charger for my Zero SR.

[jheth]

Because of the compatibility issues (some chargers will not work with the lower voltage of Zero's battery), Zero might have chosen to stop supporting CHAdeMO. I suspect there is too much potential for customer dissatisfaction in this area, if owners get the CHAdeMO and station incompatibility could leave them stranded. This is unfortunate, since a DC quick charge option like CHAdeMO is preferred, since you don't need to haul heavy chargers with you on the bike, and it doesn't care about the country's AC voltages. Here in the US, most infrastructure being built is L2 J1772 chargers, so many Zero owners mount extra AC-DC chargers onto their bikes with a J1772 input.

Have you tried contacting Zero to ask about the CHAdeMO option?

[dc5dd]

The consensus is that although Zero has done what they can with Chademo the vast majority of charging stations are NOT compatible.  This is because of the voltage that the Zero motorcycle require and although it is part of the Chademo charging standards most choose to not incorporated into their stations because they are focused more on cars.   

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3637.0

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3308.msg18982#msg18982

[oobflyer]

I, too, was disappointed to see that Zero dropped the fast-DC charging idea.

with a range of 170km with powerpack

Isn't it 170 miles ?

I just ordered a second 'Quic' Charger and Y-adaptor from Zero (through my dealership) - so I'll be able to charge at 3.4 kW from a J1772 car-charging station. It's nothing like CHAdeMO, but much better than just charging with the onboard charger. I should be able to charge in 2-3 hours, vs. 10 hours.  I'll be testing it as soon as I can.

[benswing]

And since I know the CHAdeMO fast charger works here in Norway, I would love to buy one sett anyway. But my Zero dealer says they can get any since Zero Motorcycles do not deliver them anymore. Even tho they are still on their web page.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=162

Apparently Zero just took ChaDeMo chargers off their webpage, this link no longer goes to the charger.

Also, with the powertank the city range of an SR is 170 miles.  Highway range is closer to 170km, though.

I would also like ChaDeMo and know there are charging stations near me that work with our voltages on the east coast of the U.S.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DynoMutt]

The consensus is that although Zero has done what they can with Chademo the vast majority of charging stations are NOT compatible.  This is because of the voltage that the Zero motorcycle require and although it is part of the Chademo charging standards most choose to not incorporated into their stations because they are focused more on cars.   

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3637.0

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3308.msg18982#msg18982

I was never given the impression that "the vast majority of charging stations" was not compatible through any of my reading on this forum, nor in communication with Zero.  The problem as I see it has always been a concern for an inconsistent experience for users that reflects badly on Zero.  Meaning: even if 10% of the chargers are incompatible, it will cause problems for us, in various ways.  I guess Zero decided to go in a different direction after seeing no way of getting satisfaction on this issue from those that choose not to properly implement the CHAdeMO protocol and yet choose to still call their chargers CHAdeMO.

[xmjsilverx]

I have 2 questions on this.  Is it possible to put a chademo plug on a 2015 SR?  What is the charge time for something like this?

[benswing]

CHAdeMO fast charging has never been offered for 2015 models and it will not be offered. 

I have heard an employee at zero say that he thought 80% of CHAdeMO fast charging stations do not work with their equipment.  This may have been an exaggeration, but it seems they feel like they have been burned by offering an expensive product that doesn't work consistently through no fault of their own (namely the voltage issue). 

They actually have stopped selling CHAdeMO and have never shipped a CHAdeMO unit for any 2014 bikes.  I ordered one and after a month and a half of waiting they pulled the plug on it and will not fill the order, so I'll get my money back.  Pretty pissed about that.  I don't want money, I want fast charging!  Particularly since I got a 2014 model instead of a 2015 specifically to get the CHAdeMO fast charging!

My dream bike was a 2014 Zero SR w/ a power tank and CHAdeMO, which really would have been a road-trip machine!

[xmjsilverx]

I understand that it's not offered by Zero and that not all stations will charge it but my question is, is it possible to make something work whether it
is aftermarket or something put together from parts?

[DynoMutt]

@zero, if the chademo chargers won't give you 96-118vdc, can you maybe drop 250vdc to 96-118vdc??? http://www.absopulse.com/Absopulse_DC_DC_Converters.php

[ultrarnr]

I had a CHAdeMO kit for my Zero SR on order for over seven months before being told recently that Zero wasn't going to deliver it. CHAdeMO systems are being installed all over North Carolina and I could easily travel throughout most of the state using mainly CHAdeMO instead of L2 chargers. I could also travel up the east coast to visit Benswing in NJ and only need to use L2 chargers about three times, the rest all CHAdeMO. And the CHAdeMO systems I would be using are Eaton and Nissan. These are systems that Zero feels good about working with the Zero system. Most of the CHAdeMO systems on the east coast are actually systems that would work with the Zero. But Zero can't see past what they have in California. The models of CHAdeMO chargers around Santa Cruz California are not representative of the rest of the country.  So for those of us who could have made good use of the Zero CHAdeMO system we get screwed. One of my concerns right now is that Zero is going to apply the logic they used to kill CHAdeMO to Level 2 charging and as a result we will never see L2 charging on a Zero. Those of us using Elcons know you can't charge at a GE Wattstation because of the required interface needed with the BMS. PEP chargers are the same way. But there are plenty of other systems out there that do work with the Elcons so you just look on Plugshare to make sure before you go to a location to plug in. In the same way with CHAdeMO you would check to see what brand is at the location you want to charge at.

Below is an email from 1 August 2014 that Aaron sent to my dealer and was forwarded to me.
Hi Tanner,

I am glad we finally connected via phone. I thought I would send a quick email for your reference based on our conversation.

The 2014 Zero SR CHAdeMO kit has not been released by engineering.  I believe we are only a few weeks away, but I wouldn't be able to ship immediately. 

You asked about compatibility with an Eaton Charging Station.  Unfortunately, we have limited access to this brand and have not been able to perform thorough compatibility testing.  Our tests with the two systems in California were successful, but your customer may want to contact Eaton about this specific charge station to be sure.  The specific questions that should be directed toward Eaton are whether they implemented the full CHAdeMO specification and support voltages as low as 50V.

In general, we have not been able to provide an official compatibility list because there is no central testing location or methodology offered by the CHAdeMO group to ensure it.  We have found incompatibilities with stations that we believe have not fully implemented the CHAdeMO specification.  Usually, these related to a lack of support for voltages around 100v, which our motorcycles require, or Isolation Tests.  And a specific brand of station can differ by model or even firmware revision.  From our testing, we generally feel good about ABB, Fuji and Nissan stations, but Blink typically doesn't support the lower voltages.  AeroVironment may be working on a firmware improvement that will help, but they have not announced a release date.

We all know that the right answer is CHAdeMO should work in every case.  For this reason, I am continuing to work with the CHAdeMO organization to ensure that this is the goal.  And we believe that when charging station companies comply with the full specification, then our solution will work.  But because the market isn't there yet, our CHAdeMO solution today tends to be best for fleet customers willing to install a known compatible charging station.  I am happy to speak directly to the end customer about this if it helps support your business.

Regards,
Aaron Cheatham
Director of Customer Experience
Zero Motorcycles
@aaronzeromoto



.

[DynoMutt]

Yeah, as of 08/2014, that was the same message I was getting from Chris at Zero.  Even as of November 2014, there was no decision to discontinue CHAdeMO support for the '14s, only the decision not to implement the kit for the '15s.  This change is new.  I want to get an answer from Richard before making any judgements at this point.

[Doctorbass]

Chademo cost about 1800$ and is limited to very few charge station

And ...  the ChaDemo would charge to max 100A but probably 80A on most charge stations so it would be max 8kW

The only advantage of the chademo is that it does not require any onboard or transported charger on the Zero...


A 6kW " portable" Elcon charger cost 1700$ but have the size of two box of shoes side by side. It would require a J1772 adapter for about 150$... total 1860$... and can be used to 99% of the EV charge stations witch are level II 30A J1772 type.


A 7KW DIY VERY COMPACT charger would cost about 300 to 1200$ and is made from server power supply and is not waterproof.
The DIY 7kW charger require a minimum of electronic knowledge to build and a particular attention to operate.

From these evidence i can't see any need for a ChaDeMo except if you can't make the compromise to bring about  between 10 to 20 pounds with you on the bike.

How much would you guys be welling to pay to get a J1772 6-7kW portale compact charger for your Zero?

Doc

Doc

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I would definitely pay for charging support that I can use conveniently.

I'll say this about waterproofing support: it makes the difference between occupying precious cargo space versus an exposed area (like the tank bin) where mass and space would not otherwise be used in less-than-ideal weather. 10-20 pounds in a side case is far less convenient than 10-20 pounds over the center of the bike.

Maybe the cargo space limit will be addressed by an aerodynamic touring cowling, or maybe not. But as long as cargo space is at a premium, it's difficult to justify hauling around a charger in its own sealed case.

I ride a lot in the rain, anyway [in Seattle], so carrying high-power electronics that are not waterproofed is scary and likely going to fail at some point.

[DynoMutt]

Chademo cost about 1800$ and is limited to very few charge station

And ...  the ChaDemo would charge to max 100A but probably 80A on most charge stations so it would be max 8kW

The only advantage of the chademo is that it does not require any onboard or transported charger on the Zero...


A 6kW " portable" Elcon charger cost 1700$ but have the size of two box of shoes side by side. It would require a J1772 adapter for about 150$... total 1860$... and can be used to 99% of the EV charge stations witch are level II 30A J1772 type.


A 7KW DIY VERY COMPACT charger would cost about 300 to 1200$ and is made from server power supply and is not waterproof.
The DIY 7kW charger require a minimum of electronic knowledge to build and a particular attention to operate.

From these evidence i can't see any need for a ChaDeMo except if you can't make the compromise to bring about  between 10 to 20 pounds with you on the bike.

How much would you guys be welling to pay to get a J1772 6-7kW portale compact charger for your Zero?

Doc

Doc

I was thinking that two ESP120s hacked to allow for a broader DC voltage range wrapped in exhaust pipes would make quite a bit of sense.  I have sent an e-mail to a custom exhaust shop about the notion of encasing a single ESP120 in an exhaust pipe with the baffles removed so as to provide camouflage and environmental protection.  There would be symmetry, hanging one on each side of the motorcycle.  If anything, the bikes would look less conspicuous as they would have the outward appearance differences reduced.  I wanted to use the knowledge obtained from the endless sphere hacking of ESP120 + the modular cable componentry demonstrated in Burton's videos to do this.  There's still a lot of thinking, designing, and fitting to go on.  My end goal is to have something intrinsic to the bike enough that it's not apparent that it could be stolen easily, but would still be removable in the span of a few minutes.  Also, it has to look like it belongs on the bike.  Also, it has to ultimately be possible to get it UL-certified so insurance problems might be mitigated for users.  Also, it should work with J1772 inlets as well as NEMA 14-50 and the others, each plug should be kept as small as possible and modular.  The ESP120 should also be considered to be swappable, as they have the functionality to be swappable already designed in, so the exhaust pipe should allow for instant removal of the ESP120 should it fail, so there should be rail guides and a backplane board at the front end of the exhaust pipe it lives in that would then be connected to AC and DC power.  The fans face outward and upward, and are only in operation when the bike is stationary, covered most of the time, only uncovered when the chargers are active.

As to CHAdeMO, I can see it becoming more and more common over time.  By having force of numbers, we can encourage more adoption of this technology.  I think Zero was on the right track but they gave up due to understandable reasons, but they made promises to people and backed out on them without providing a proper alternative on their own and that's a grave mistake.

Oh, and $1200 or so seems to be a number I'd be comfortable with, $1800 would be the upper range and >$2000 is where it'd start to become problematic.

Sorry for the wall of text.