Topic: Change regen while riding? (Read 2133 times)

domingo3 · « **on:** January 13, 2015, 05:07:18 AM »

Hi. This isn't the biggest deal in the world, but I was wondering if anyone felt similarly about this.

For most riding, I'd like regen to be maximized, but in a few situations, I'd like it to be minimized.

The example I can think of off the top of my head is coming up to stop lights in urban areas. On a gas bike, I'd pull in the clutch to coast up to the light. On the Zero, if I have max regen, and I release the throttle, I slow down pretty quickly. I've thought it might be nice to have a "clutch" lever that would cut regen for situations like this. It seems like something that wouldn't be hard for the manufacturer to program, but it's beyond what I think I could implement. Of course, if I'm the only one who thinks it would be useful, it's not going to happen.

Richard230 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2015, 05:47:42 AM »

I have my regen set to zero when the throttle is closed and maximum when braking. That way I can coast when not going down a steep hill and just touch the front brake when I need to slow down. If I am slowing down too much, I just let up on the brake and start coasting again. It works for me and I like it, after trying every other combination that I can think of using the Zero app.

Electric Terry · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2015, 07:04:29 AM »

Remember if you just crack the throttle slightly (zone between regen and acceleration) it will coast and you can let off as you get closer to where you want the regen to come on again.

Or you can set Custom mode as Richard has done to be none or less than what you have now in sport mode, and hit the mode button on the fly. It should go into effect as soon as you go off throttle I believe.

Burton · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2015, 07:54:06 AM »

Some people have already created the inverse of this. I would have done so today but I broke my sensor so I have to wait till next week. -__-

I will post up details when I complete it but it isn't something you can do alone less you want to spend a lot of money on DVT software and connector. My bike will be, like it always is, set for 0 regen and the clutch when used will increase the regen. At least that is the goal.

Wednesday my new sensor comes in so I likely wont get anything posted up till Thursday or next weekend.

trikester · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:04:09 AM »

I have my SPORT regen at zero when coasting and at 1/2 max when the brake light is on. My ECO regen is zero when coasting (same as SPORT) and max when the brake light is on. I have added a spring loaded to off position switch on the left handlebar to activate the brake light without using the brake lever. I find this useful especially when riding dirt trails to quickly turn on and off the regen for modulating downhill speed.

On loose surfaces I'll ride in SPORT mode so that I only get 1/2 max regen with the brake light to avoid sliding the rear tire.

The photo shows the left bar switch with an extension I added to the lever to make it easy to pull with my index finger.

Trikester

Cortezdtv · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:24:41 AM »

Very clever idea trikester

I think I'm going to go digging into this idea with a friend. Very good idea but how is the initial jolt of the regen kicking in when its in max
With a tune you can easily make it much much stronger, But I would worry all the regen just kicking in if you tap the brake

I need some time to ponder this idea maybe modify the tune like Richard then add the lever

evtricity · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2015, 05:44:30 PM »

A good solution for the opening poster would be a separate regen lever on the LHS wired into the Sevcon controller as a variable "footbrake".

I've done this by using a clutch lever / master cylinder and pressure transducer and wired it into the Sevcon controller similar to what Burton is doing ATM.

It can give you enough power to lock the rear wheel and you can modulate the power/regen in the same manner as using the front mechanical brake i.e. the harder you pull on the lever, the more regen you get. You can easily come to full regen, no mechanical brake stops in all but the most hard (need front brake!!!) braking scenarios. Like Burton and others suggest with this setup you'd most likely remove the regen "switch" on neutral or on application of the front brake. When I say switch I mean the regen is either on/off with respect to being in neutral or using front brake. You can choose between the three modes for different regen levels as noted previously, but variable regen allows you absolute control in any mode.

Yes, you need an IXXAT CAN-USB compact adaptor and Sevcon software and some electrical wiring skills but it's not difficult to do. I've had this set up for a couple of weeks and its is great for providing much better modulation than you can get with your foot with the benefit or extended range (albeit I don't think there is actually much range benefit versus coasting to a stop).

I would recommend keeping your existing mechanical rear foot brake if you're going to use the bike on the street.

Just a quick aside to end:
Coming from a bicycle racing background and a Vectrix riding background, the whole rear brake foot control thing is an anachronism and not good ergonomics. I'm still searching for the ideal setup but a LHS regen lever or bidirectional throttle makes a huge amount of sense to me. If we could get absolute reliability on the regen then I would ditch the rear mechanical brake too for weight, cost and aesthetic reasons. And if we can find ways to control gas engine traction control and mechanical ABS we certainly can do the same for electric motor acceleration and deceleration/regeneration. Exciting times ahead!

Burton · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2015, 09:19:54 PM »

My current setup has regen 0 on Eco with the "max" regen when braking (15% of 7.2Nm which is odd since the app says 25Nm when braking)

I modified my brake lever by grinding down the location where the brake light contacts the lever to make the brake light activate before the front brake does anything. In this manner I can currently pull on the front brake lever to activate the brake light and induce regen without the front brake slowing me down.

I am copying dgh853 setup as some other clutch based setups I have seen would require more engineering and his only requires a pressure transducer, a step down transformer, and a hydronic clutch. And access to someone with DVT if you don't have it yourself.

Depending how I adjust it and like it I might seek to modify the transducer or a mechanical clutch solution with a potentiometer. The only difference between my setup and his is the power source used for the step down transformer is different.

It is worth noting dgh853's torque was maxed out on the braking section to ten times that which is stock from zero. As with any setting changes in DVT you should change things slowly and test between each change so you don't accidentally kilo yourself or your machine

trikester · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:37:17 PM »

There is another Sevcon programming thing to consider when changing the regen response: The stock program has the regen start to reduce at a certain RPM and cutoff completely at a certain lower RPM. I didn't like the regen going down and then cutting off at the factory settings. I had Harlan change it on my FX so that it doesn't start reducing the amount of regen until I'm down to about 2 1/2 MPH and not cutoff until I'm at about 1 MPH.

However, I would like to completely eliminate this feature and have max regen until the RPM is too low to generate the required power. On a recent descent of Silver Canyon (near Bishop CA) the eroded dirt trail descends at 22% for several miles (this is damn steep!). I had to go very slow to keep my speed from becoming uncontrollable (like continous sliding). I was using my regen switch to act as a drag brake but often it wasn't doing much because of the slow speed and that programming.

Trikester

BTW - That was my first and last descent of Silver Cyn - been there, done that. At the bottom my eyes hurt because i think I forgot to blink all the way down.

DynoMutt · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2015, 12:50:36 AM »

Right now in custom mode I set regen to maximum on throttleback. I do most of my riding in custom mode.

This is not so safe in slippery/rainy weather, in which case I would switch to sport mode.

My personal preference would be to have spring-resistance on a negative roll of the throttle which would allow for mediating regen over a range from zero to 100. It seems logical to me that positive throttle and regen should never happen at the same time. In an ideal setup for me, a user could set their zero position relative to max and min throttle and whatever throttle direction is pushed, it will always snap back to zero position if pressure is removed. This would allow for a user to set no negative positions if in a sport situation or if there is a concern for safety, while allowing for the scenario that I describe that I'd want.

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Author Topic: Change regen while riding? (Read 2133 times)

domingo3

Change regen while riding?

Richard230

Re: Change regen while riding?

Electric Terry

Re: Change regen while riding?

Burton

Re: Change regen while riding?

trikester

Re: Change regen while riding?

Cortezdtv

Re: Change regen while riding?

evtricity

Re: Change regen while riding?

Burton

Re: Change regen while riding?

trikester

Re: Change regen while riding?

DynoMutt

Re: Change regen while riding?