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Author Topic: New classification for Zero S in Quebec  (Read 1398 times)

vfkf

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New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« on: July 29, 2014, 07:41:15 PM »

Previously registered with a capacity of 10 cc, my Zero S 2013 is now a 16  kW motorcycle (the average power apparently).

Below 125 cc I was not allowed on the highway but only required a class C motorcycle permit. But above 11 kW I need a class A permit (>400 cc) and can go on the highway. The SAAQ (our DOT or MOT equivalent) was errant with this classification (<125 cc). I first thought it was a green incentive (lower registration/insurance $) but soon realized it could be somehow restrictive. There was not enough electric bikes registered for them to care. Maybe someone was caught speeding on a highway while not powerful enough to have access :-)
 
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Doctorbass

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 08:27:11 PM »

lol...

S A A Q   is STUPID ! no doubt!

Yesterday I just received a letter with my new registrations with a big error !

They have cathegorized my Zero S 2012 ZF9 to a   9kW engine !!!

They confuse kWh and kW !!! what a stupid engineer !!

The 2012 S have a 30kW motor and a 9kWh pack... not a 9kW motor !! lol

I am not engineer and I know the difference between kWh and kW !!

I just called them in the last hour to speak with their "engineer" and update him a "little bit" I'm waiting for the callback...

Doc



 
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Doctorbass

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 08:30:47 PM »

Also they never categorize gas motorcycles with average power...   so why they would do that on electric motorcycles?? lol

You said they cathegorized your 2013 S to 16kW ?? while it is 40kW... lol.. at least you can  say you will pay less !! ;)


on my side they mention it is required to have at least 11kW to be allowed to drive on highway...  and with their error it's like they would not allow mine to go on the highway lol.... 9kW ... lol  "Hey guys at the SAAQ... that's the energy of the battery not the motor power !!" lol

Doc
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Zero Drag racing bike: 12.2s 1/4 mile and 7.3s 1/8 mile

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hinse

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2014, 09:01:01 PM »

You are lucky, at least the SAAQ lets you go on highways. (Once they sort out power, energy, and top speed)

I am in Ontario where ALL electric motorcycles are banned, except on low speed highways.

MAD AS HELL in Ontario. >:(
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protomech

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 09:12:25 PM »

More likely they are rated by continuous power, which for the 2012 S is 9.1 kW.

For example, on page 1-5 in the 2012 Zero manual, there's this breakdown of an example VIN:

538 S M3 M3 9 C C A 12345

538 = World Manufacturer Identifier (not unique to Zero)
S = S / DS platform
M3 = Model Line (M3 = 2012 S)
M3 = 9.1 kW (12.2 hp)
9 = unlabeled, but it's a check digit
C = Model Year (2012)
C = Plant Location (California)
A = Model (A = 11-12 S)
12345 = Production Number (serial)


Here's a 2013 S for comparison:

538 S M4 Z2 # D C A 12345

M4 = Model Line (M4 = 2013 S)
Z2 = 16 kW (22 hp)
# = check digit
D = Model Year (2013)


And a 2014 S:

538 S M4 Z2 # E C A 12345

Almost identical save E = Model Year (2014)
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benswing

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 09:24:10 PM »

hinse, do you think a police officer would even (1) know that obscure rule about electric motorcycles or (2) be able to identify one if he saw it? 

I think it would be a good idea to petition a rule change, but wouldn't be too concerned about getting busted before that happens.  :-)
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kensiko

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2014, 09:57:00 PM »

Got the letter last week-end.

Any idea on how many owners of Zeros in Quebec ? I know at least that somebody else got a S 2013 in Sherbrooke, I saw it for the recall.
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Doug S

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2014, 10:21:56 PM »

Just to be SURE, I Googled what's legal on the freeways here in California; the only references I could find were to a "motorcycle" being over 150cc, and a "motor-driven cycle" being under 150cc, and not legal on the freeways. Obviously those don't apply. I remember in my teenage years CA used horsepower instead of displacement as the determining factor (IIRC 12 hp was required to make a bike legal on the freeways), but apparently the new rules only speak about displacement.

Now...CA (especially so cal) is motorcycle central, and I've seen a LOT of electrics on the street, and even the freeways, and my registration wasn't given to me with any restrictions, so I'm REALLY skeptical that our bikes aren't legal on the freeways. But I can't see any reference to the section of code that deals with electric motorcycles. Does anybody happen to know offhand where electrics are discussed in the CA vehicle code?
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Doctorbass

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 01:55:24 AM »

So what is ridiculous Is that Zero state that the 2012 S is rated 9.1kW?  and that in Quebec, the requirement for being allowed to go on the freeway is 11kW !! :o ??? ::)

It appear that my zero is over the law of physics since I've been able to drive it on the freeway for 2 years now  :P

But wait a minute??.. .Who the hell defined that the continuous power of the 2012 s is only 9.1kW ??  The ME0913 is rated 12kW.. lol not 9.1kW...

According to the engineer I spoke too in the last minute the 11kW required power to be allowed on the freeway in Quebec  is based on the 125cc quivalent from the europeen laws... ::)

The name of that engineer is Mark Baril and he work at the S.A.A.Q

So now it appear that Zero decided that the nominal power of the 2012 S is 9.1kW according to the VIN. but WHY  ????

This mean  would not be allowed to go on the freeway anymore ???!!! >:( >:(  WTF !!!

I must  speak with Glen Wakefield and the other guys at Zero for that   for sure!!

I feel I'm the only Zero ambassador in Quebec and also really proud to be it but I would now not be allowed to ride my 2012 S on the freeway ??6 wtf ??

Doc


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Doug S

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2014, 02:47:45 AM »

According to the engineer I spoke too in the last minute the 11kW required power to be allowed on the freeway in Quebec  is based on the 125cc quivalent from the europeen laws... ::)

Okay...since ICE's are rated on MAXIMUM horsepower (you can't ask a 150 horsepower ICE to put out 150 hp continuously), they should also use the MAXIMUM rating for EVs. Even if they're gonna be stupid, they need to be stupid consistently.
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KrazyEd

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2014, 07:03:48 AM »

Here in Las Vegas, I have been taking my 2012 XU on the freeways for the last year without problems.
The only mention that I am aware of is that an electric bicycle has to have peddles, and, less than
1 horsepower, and, less than 750 watts. An electric Moped or scooter can have up to 2 hp, and,
not more than 1500 watts. Other than that, the only limit seems to be that you are able to
maintain at least minimum speed for the road that you are on. As far as the DMV goes, there
is an Electric fuel section on the title which is reflected on the registration, but, don't see
anything pro or con for electric as far as they are concerned.
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evtricity

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2014, 02:31:12 PM »

In Australia, our DOT equivalent has classified the full Zero range as Learner Approved, including the FX and SR. There is supposed to be a 150kW per tonne power restriction but some bright spark hasn't applied that to electric motorbikes.

Waiting for the day a 16 year old rides by on one wheel or beats every sports car to 100kph!
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Doctorbass

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2014, 08:28:49 PM »

this is redicule!!

The old 2011 SDS that I had  is 2.5 time the VIN rating power of the 2012 SDS !!!

I checked for my previous DS 2011 and from what I understand this one was allowed on our highway!!! because it had more than the required 11kW so it appear that the 2012 S is a downgrade for the continuous power?
 
Here is the VIN of my previous 2011:
538 S D2 A1 1 B C B XXXXX

538 = World Manufacturer Identifier (not unique to Zero)
S = S / DS platform
D2 = Model Line
A1 = 26.1- 31.9hp     ( the 2012 is M3 = 9.1 kW (12.2 hp))
1 = unlabeled, but it's a check digit
B = Model Year (2011)
C = Plant Location (California)
B = Model DS
XXXXX = Production Number (serial)
 
So this would mean the  2011 Agni + Alltrax 4855 at 52Volts  is a combo that allow like 2.5 more continuous hp than the 2012 motonergy + sevcon at 66volts ??
 
Is it me who.... ?

 >:(

Doc
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 08:32:39 PM by Doctorbass »
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BSDThw

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Re: New classification for Zero S in Quebec
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2014, 10:33:31 PM »

Doc this sucks for you but I like this very much in Germany.

The Highway has nothing to do with KW only with max speed the vehicle need to have 60km/h max speed ability.

The low KW in the paper makes the bike really cheap at insurance and the guys with the limited driver license are even allowed to ride the SR :o

One man's meat is another man's poison. 
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Air Drag Sucks - 2012 Zero DS ZF9 - 2013 Zero FX ZF5.7
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