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Author Topic: Regen 2014 SR  (Read 1822 times)

Martin

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Regen 2014 SR
« on: July 01, 2014, 11:39:55 AM »

Where can I go to learn more about regen and how it works. I also would like to better understand how adjustments in custom mode work with regen.

Insist in greatly appreciated.
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kensiko

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2014, 05:41:28 PM »

What type of information do you want ? Regen uses the kinetic inertia and the electric motor with the help of the power inverter to put back the energy in the battery. The custom mode allow you to set the Regen level you want when closing the throttle and when hitting the brake lever.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 05:18:33 PM by kensiko »
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Martin

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2014, 12:24:38 AM »

what effects does changing max regen coast and brake have on the bike. How do I know where to set each one for my particular ride?
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dkw12002

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2014, 01:23:30 AM »

It's a little of a catch 22. In town, in stop and go traffic is where regen is happening best, but who needs it there? When riding on the interstate or other major road going long distances where you might like a few extra miles, you would seldom activate the system from braking or letting off the throttle. I still really like the system, but I like it because it simulates engine braking. If you minimize regen in eco mode, since the bike rolls so easily, you might find yourself coming up too fast at stop lights or stopped cars in front of you. I certainly did. But max braking regen and max off-throttle set in eco mode is a fantastic way to ride for me. It is similar to the engine braking you get from many motorcycles by dropping down 2 or more gears...steady though and not jerky...like a slipper clutch would apply the slowing. For me, it makes the bike safer to ride. It's brilliant.
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ultrarnr

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2014, 03:05:33 AM »

In my opinion the real benefit of regen is duplicating the engine braking you experience on an ICE bike. While technically regen is capable of recharging your battery and extending range unless you live in the mountains that doesn't happen to any extent. Recently I rode my SR across North Carolina and rode around in the mountains. When you have long downhills that go for several miles you will see regen having an effect on your battery. In some cases it means you can ride for 6-8 miles with no drop in charge level. On one very long and steep hill on Wayah Road the battery charge level actually increased by several percent. When I stopped to take a break on that hill a van passed and it was obvious their brakes were burning up. Nice to have regen recharging my battery instead of me burning up my brakes.

I have my regen set at 74% on throttle closing and 100% when braking. Your preferences may differ.
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protomech

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2014, 06:03:34 AM »

Heading down from the Pikes Peak summit, there is a halfway point brake check station where the rangers check your rotor temps to make sure you're not overheating.

The electrics were of course cool.. and we all picked up a few % riding down. Brandon (Electric Cowboy) riding trikester's FX-conversion trike I think gained from 19% to 40+% by the end..
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Martin

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2014, 01:39:45 AM »

Thanks everyone for the guidance.

First, what is an ICE bike?

Second, in someone with more knowledge opinion, what should I look at setting regen. I live about 4.3 miles from the freeway entrance. I then ride 24 miles, going between 40-80 mph depending on traffic. My office is then 2 miles from the freeway exit. I know I want to set max speed to 85mph.

Regen Throttle ?
Regen Brake?

Thanks,
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Richard230

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2014, 03:52:46 AM »

Thanks everyone for the guidance.

First, what is an ICE bike?

Second, in someone with more knowledge opinion, what should I look at setting regen. I live about 4.3 miles from the freeway entrance. I then ride 24 miles, going between 40-80 mph depending on traffic. My office is then 2 miles from the freeway exit. I know I want to set max speed to 85mph.

Regen Throttle ?
Regen Brake?

Thanks,

"ICE" is shorthand for "internal combustion engine".  "EV" is used to describe "electric vehicle".

Setting the regen percentage to something that works well for you is mostly trial and error, but any setting should work fine, maybe just not optimum for your type of riding.  If you do a lot of stop-and-go surface street riding, then I would recommend something like 50% throttle regen and 100% braking regen.  But if you ride at faster speeds and on mostly level roads, you might want to try 0%-25% regen with the throttle closed and 100% when braking.  That is what I now have my "custom" setting at and I think I like it.  In any case you can easily switch from "custom" to "sport" or "eco" modes should you want a different regen setting for the type of riding that you are doing at the moment.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Justin Andrews

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2014, 04:18:49 AM »

For example I tried setting my regen throttle to 0% and brake regen to 100%, but I did'nt like the resulting jerk that touching the brakes generated, the UK has a LOT of roundabouts and it made controlling my speed round them uncomfortable. 50% regen on the throttle however was to aggressive when simply rolling off the throttle, so around 20% worked in the end for me.

So my current settings are
Regen Throttle - 20%
Regen Brake - 100%

Interestingly the Sevcon motor controllers in the Zero's can handle proportional regenerative braking, but to take advantage of that you'd have to add your own controls (and possibly reprogram the sevcon?) if you dig around on this forum you'll find at least one or two threads discussing the modification.

One of the nice things about regen braking is that when applying the front brake, it mimics the rear brake coming on before the front calipers fully engage, this makes braking much smoother.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 04:25:58 AM by Justin Andrews »
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Richard230

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2014, 04:35:18 AM »

With my braking regen set at 100% I find that I only need to touch the front brake lightly to activate easy braking.  That gives me light braking in front and relatively light braking at the rear wheel, balancing front and rear braking without having to actually use the rear brake.  Then if I need to brake harder, I can apply heavy hand front and rear foot braking as you would with a typical ICE motorcycle when coming to a stop and the regen just adds some rear wheel braking, resulting in needing lighter foot pressure on the rear brake lever.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Martin

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2014, 08:30:03 AM »

ICE, no dah. That is obvious.

I will try your recommendations. Thank you all.
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trikester

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2014, 12:24:07 AM »

Quote
Heading down from the Pikes Peak summit, there is a halfway point brake check station where the rangers check your rotor temps to make sure you're not overheating.

The electrics were of course cool.. and we all picked up a few % riding down. Brandon (Electric Cowboy) riding trikester's FX-conversion trike I think gained from 19% to 40+% by the end..

The two times I rode my e-trike to the top I loved coming down to the mandatory brake temp check point.

The first time I told the lady as I rolled up that this was the first time I used my mechanical brakes and it was just to stop at the check point. She pointed her temp scope at one front disk and said: Wow, it's below 100F (most likely it was at ambient). The second time, two days later, there was a guy there checking temps. As I approached the station he yelled at me from about 50 feet away: "You're OK" and waved me through without checking. Since he was not the one checking the first day he must have been near and heard what the lady said. I got a big kick out of that! ;D

I did my down hill rides from the top for maximum regen gain, not high speed. That meant in the straights I kept tapping my brake light momentary switch (left handlebar) to engage maximum regen. This reduced my straightaway speed to the point where I could ensure being able to slow enough for the switchbacks using regen alone. The highest speed I observed was about 35 mph and on the steepest slopes I held it to less than that. On the second ride I did the entire decent from the top of Pikes Peak to the toll station (18+ miles) without using my mechanical brakes. Not even at the check point this time because he waved me through.

FYI - I have my non-regen state set at zero (for free coasting) on both SPORT and ECO because I only want "engine braking" regen when I ask for it by using the brake light switch to initiate. It is very easy to get used to this when riding in traffic also.

See photo of Zero powered trike at the top.

Trikester
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 12:28:01 AM by trikester »
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krash7172

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2014, 01:45:12 AM »

As far as the effectiveness of regen, it depends on the rider as much as the riding conditions. I have a car that allows for some custom eco settings and it has guidelines for max fuel efficiency including regen. Excluding hills and other anomalies, the most efficient use of regen happens when you stop by using only the force from regen - no brakes. Any use of the brakes is lost energy. It also suggested that 0% regen is more efficient when you are trying to maintain an approximate speed. My car has a coast setting that uncouples the transmission - same as if you would put it in neutral. Lift off the gas and it coasts with no engine brake. Touch the brakes and you get both engine brake and regen.

The regen is triggered by either the front or back brake and depressing either enough to activate the brake light also activates regen. The back brake is essentially worthless so I am considering disabling it and using it only to activate 100% regen.

Edit: 2 problems, I like to use the rear brake to hold position when stopped on an incline and it appears the same mechanism applies the brake and light / regen. Good news is that there is a set screw on the front brake to adjust sensitivity to light / regen.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 09:48:51 AM by krash7172 »
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Doug S

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2014, 03:32:57 AM »

A newbie's $0.02 worth: I received my SR in late January 2014, and spent a fair amount of time those first weeks fiddling around with "custom" mode....I didn't like being limited to 71 mph on the freeway here in so cal -- it's fine for cruising, but not so much if you want to get around someone. Finally, after experimenting quite a bit, it dawned on me that if I just leave it in "sport" mode and show some discipline with my right wrist, I can get exactly the same benefits as "eco" mode without any of the restrictions.

So I've been riding it that way ever since. My daily commute uses no more energy than before, but when that 18-wheeler is in the way of hitting my off-ramp, 106 ft-lbs of torque is available instantly, whatever my speed may be.

And I like the full regen -- roll off the throttle to slow down and you put energy BACK into your battery, instead of wasting it heating up brake disks.
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krash7172

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Re: Regen 2014 SR
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2014, 03:42:59 AM »

Have you noticed that you cannot change modes when going faster than 60mph? This really sucks when you forget to change to sport mode before getting on the highway. Finding yourself stuck in Eco mode 70 mph hell when everyone around you is going 80 sucks. The only way out is to slow to 60 or get off the highway. Not very safe IMO.

I prefer general riding in sport mode as well. You can depress the brake just a little and get 100% regen without actually braking. Once you get the feel of it, it's easy.
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