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[Flash Nick]

G'day from sunny Cairns, FNQ, Land of Oz,
have any Zero S or SR owners had problems with sudden loss of power, resetting of State of Charge (SOC) meter or refusal to restart after any of these issues?

Was first in Australia to purchase the SR, and to be fair to the dealers, they have yet to have training (sales got ahead of them). Partially my fault, as I have been awaiting introduction of these new models to Australia for a number of years (Zero had trouble setting up a dealer network and/or thought the bikes were not ready for our market). Anyway, they are dealing with the issues, and I hope to have the bike up here by the end of the month.

Did manage 2000km+ (that's 1200mile+ in imperial units) in the month I rode it around Victoria (it was purchased in Melbourne), and had a few "breakdowns". However, for the most part the bike is awesome. Vastly superior acceleration to my Ducati M900Sie, and similar "engine braking" to the Duke. Can't wait to try it out on my local circuit (Gillies Highway - over 100 turns going up to the tablelands - all in 20km).

Would be interested to hear if other S or SR owners have had these issues.

Nick

[protomech]

Congrats on getting the first 2014 bike down under .. there are a couple of Australian posters here that may be a little jealous.

Do you get any kind of flashing indicator on the dash? It'll be the triangle containing an exclamation mark, just right of the left turn signal.

Here's a copy of the 2014 manual in case you don't have it. Section 6.2 has a list of error codes that may give more information about the fault. There is also a small window on the front of the battery pack with some BMS indicator LEDs; these can display error codes that you can look up in section 6.7 of the manual.

http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2014/2014-Zero-Owners-Manual-S-SR-DS.pdf

When you say the SOC meter resets.. does it suddenly drop to zero? If so, what SOC % are you at when it does this? When it refuses to restart, do you mean that everything including the dash shuts off? Does it come back after you charge?

If you have a bluetooth-capable iOS or Android device, you can link it to the bike and use it to download logs. Zero may ask you to do this and then email them the logs from the bike.

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/app/help/ios/

[Flash Nick]

Thanks for the feedback - have watched Zero improve for at least 5 years, and having disconnected my house from fossil fuels a decade ago (100% PV powered), was looking to a way to do the same for transport. When the 2014 model lineup and a dealer network was announced for Oz, the time had come to commit, so I did.

Initial problem was caused by the non-fitment of suppression devices causing interference with the computer (causing it to go AWOL is the technical term LOL). As an electrical engineer who has been designing hybrid solar/ wind systems (and writing their manuals) for around 40 years, and am quite familiar with devices electrical/ electronic, and to the problems of electrical "noise"/interference.

Did download via Bluetooth and email to the factory (nice feature!), which led them to pick up on the lack of suppression devices. These are required because the motor controller/ inverter which converts the DC to 3phase AC for the brushless AC motor causes very high current variation on the battery leads, and this causes harmonics which go into the MHz range and beyond, and consequent crosstalk then leads to interference with the computer/ controller.

The SOC reset was at close to full charge. Display was always still operational, except SOC indicated zero. On two occasions the bike lost power, so I stopped, turned it Off, waited half a minute, then turned it On, then correct operation resumed (also SOC came back to a proper reading). Only once did I run out of battery, and from then on was more careful watching range (it was cold, so battery capacity was less).

Am very familiar with the red warning triangular light sequences on the dash, and the BMS indicator lights. The one that sticks in my mind for the dash warning light was two flashes followed by one (6.3 contactor error). I carried a paper copy of the manual with me on my travels and have read it extensively. It has a few errors in it for the SR (for example the 20A Charger and 30A Quick Charger fuses are not where the manual says they should be - probably correct for the S and DS, but I have not had the seat off on these models, so this is supposition).

Further issues arose with the fitting of the supplementary tank battery (suppression devices were also left off), however these have since been fitted after I left Victoria to come back to Cairns.

I am sure Zero will figure out what is going on once they come out to Oz to train the dealers, and look forward to having my bike up here in the sunny, warm, dry winters that are Cairns signature climate. However I am grateful that they are holding my bike until after training, so that all issues can be resolved. Cairns is a long way from the Queensland dealer on the Gold Coast (over 1000km).

In the meantime I have logged every kWh that has gone into the SR, and am finding it gives me between 10 and 16km/kWh (around 6 to 10miles/kWh), depending on road conditions, headwind, speed, ambient temperature and how I ride - all as expected.

As an early adopter of PV and wind 40 years ago, I recognise these small issues happen with new technology, so am not overly frustrated. All in all, very satisfied with the bike, and am confident that problems will be solved by Zero and their dealer network here in Oz.

[protomech]

Suppression devices = chokes and RF shields? Yikes that those would be left off.

[Falco]

Hi,
I'm in West Australia and have the first zero in the state. I have a SR Which i got from the eastern states and have been having the same issues you describe. Just this morning I went to get on my bike to go to work and it failed to fully charge last night. Its was @ 80% and would not accept anymore charge. I left for work and 500m down the road the battery dropped to 1% from 80% so i turned around and rode it very slowly back home and put it on charge again. Straight away it jumped to 80% with a loud click(switch sound). I then decided to see if it was OK to ride and left for work. Got to work which is 4km away with 82% charge. My bike seems to generate power when riding 
My first charge was similar with a fail to reach full charge as it stopped at 80% too. Ive done 1300km on the bike so far.
Each time it has done this I noticed the phone app indicates battery voltage is 101v @ 80% SOC instead of the 116v you get @ 100% SOC
Something is not right with my bike and the dealers like you mention are not clued up on what to do.
Would love to know more if you find out whats happening to yours

[protomech]

Flash Nick, you said you had the power tank installed. Falco, do you also have a Power Tank?

[Falco]

Yes I also have the power tank installed. Interestingly I have only had issues after a deep discharge. Discharge below 35% that is. I have only done this twice and each time has cause dramas on the charge.

[protomech]

Hmm.. Richard230 (S) had some issues with his power tank install. I suspect some combination of lack of dealer experience and poor post-installation verification procedures are to blame..

[C. Dolan]

RE: RF, Shielding, Noise, etc. :
My SR # 666 had a recall where something called " ferrites " ( sp ? ) were installed by the dealer.

RE: Charge Indicator:
Mine sometimes gets "stuck" at a random % number, no matter how long charged.
Disconnecting the charger and turning the key on and off seems to get it to show 100 %,
if charged to that point.

There is also a sustained run test done to see if motor holds together.
Recall letter mentions bikes made prior to March 2014.
Mine, being late Feb, was done by distributor before shipping to dealer.

 

[Flash Nick]

Mssr Dolan,
seems I'm not the only one with problems. Good to have a forum like this to share issues and solutions.

Yes, the SOC indicator is not so reliable it seems, and it was my experience that a "cold boot" was often required to ensure it showed correctly. I hope that it is rectified along with the intermittent stop problem before shipping up here (bike is still with Melbourne dealer, awaiting training to assist with correct setup).

Cannot blame the dealers who have no previous experience with electric bikes, and often not a great deal of experience with issues electric or electronic (although with fuel injection and computer control the latter is improving). High current, high voltage electrics is another area of expertise however, and procedures like torquing of high current electrical connections may not be fully understood, where it is in fact, critical. Hopefully training will address some of these issues. This is a very new field, as PVs were 40 years ago.

Ferrites are a magnetic material which, depending on formulation, will "absorb" high order harmonics. You often see them on plugpack supplies, as a lump near the plug, to do this and "suppress" these harmonics and "shield" the equipment being supplied from interference (caused by these harmonics produced by the switch mode power unit in the plugpack). Highly necessary on a >60kW power supply (aka Zero SR). There are many other ways interference may be caused, and many ways to protect systems from this - intelligent design, good materials and craftsmanship in construction all obviate issues down the track.

Trust this answers your query.

Could you inform me about the motor recall? I have not heard of this before.

Nick

[Richard230]

My bike was manufactured in late December 2013 and had a potentially defective motor, due to the possibility that the magnets were not properly glued at the factory.  It was recalled and inspected by the dealer.  The inspection consisted of running the bike at full throttle for about 30 minutes, until the motor reached a specific temperature.  If the motor didn't blow up then it was considered to be good.  Mine checked out OK.  But if the magnets had let go and the motor locked up then Zero would have paid to have a new motor installed.  However, no motors were on hand at the time and they would have had to be ordered from the factory (located about 80 miles from my home), which would have involved several days to arrive and be installed.  To my knowledge no one visiting this forum has had their motor frag and received a new motor. So I guess this isn't much of an issue for most (if not all) Zero owners.

When my "power tank" was installed the extra battery module (apparently the same one used in the FX) had a defective BMS and the bike didn't recognize that it was there.  Eventually a new "power tank" was installed at my dealer's shop by a Zero factory technician, who also gave my bike the latest updated firmware programming, along with synchronizing the encoders.  Since that work was performed, my bike has been performing flawlessly and the SOC gauge is perfectly calibrated.  I ran it down to 0% recently and when it says "0", it means start pushing because you are out of juice.  The Zero app shows a full charge to be 13.22 kWh, with battery voltage as 115 Volts.

Speaking of voltage, ever since the power tank was installed my bike will only charge to 98% before turning off.  A day later it will come back on and finish charging to 100%.  However, when I visit my daughter, it will charge right to 100%, without stopping at 98%.  Today I discovered what was different between her electricity and mine.     Her power is supplied at 118 volts, while mine is 123 volts, according to my Kill-A-Watt meter.     So I guess that affects the charging sequence somehow.   

[Doug S]

My 2014 SR (which may have been the first one delivered -- I put my deposit down the day the 2014 model year was announced) got recalled and the motor failed the test. My local dealer (Rocket Motorcycles in San Diego) had to order a new motor, but it arrived pretty quickly and they had the bike back to me within a week. Not bad in my opinion. Try replacing the motor on an ICE vehicle in a week, including a couple days' shipping time! I'd also had a seam rip on my tank bag, and they replaced that under warranty while the bike was in the shop.

Other than that, I've had "zero" (sorry) problems with my bike. Occasionally drive mode won't engage at startup, so I turn the key off and on again and it seems to reboot correctly, but that's barely an annoyance. I realize there's a selection bias here, since people post the problems they've had and don't post when they have no problems, but it seems like I may have really lucked out -- it seems like there's a lot of problems reported on this BBS considering the size of this market.

Has anybody gathered any data on failure rates of these bikes? I'm getting a little spooked that there may be problems waiting to pounce on me -- it is a relatively new manufacturer and a fairly niche product. I understand that anecdotal evidence is pretty meaningless, so it would be nice to see compiled data if anybody has any.

[BeezDiego]

My Zero died on the freeway today.  Not a great place to all of a sudden lose power.  Once on the side of the road I reset the system several times and managed to confirm that there was no red warning light (flashing or otherwise).  Has everyone else has red warning lights flashing when they lost power?  Or is it just me?  I am very disappointed because the throttle gave out after less then 200 miles of me riding the bike (the factory put on nearly fifty).  I appreciate any specifics or insight any of you may have. 

[protomech]

Which Zero do you have, Beez?

Did the dash go blank as if powered off, or did the motor suddenly cut out but with no other indication of fault?

On the 2012 bikes, a controller glitch can cut power to the motor, but Zero will reset the controller when the throttle is returned to the idle stop. Takes about a second then you have power again. Wonder if the same thing happens with the 2013-2014 bikes.

[Manzanita]

I think I will bring the bike into a Zero dealer now, but just wanted to post this to see if anyone else has had this issue and resolved it. This is not quite the same problem as the OP, but close enough...

I have a 2014 S with power tank and have over 18,000 miles on it. It previously had the onboard charger and the controller replaced (both over a year ago). It has been running fine up until a week ago. Now it will completely lose power (even the headlight goes off)--once you come to a complete stop it resets itself and you can continue on like nothing happened. This happened again yesterday, and it thankfully only happens at very low speed (5 mph or less, it seems). It seems when you go completely off the throttle and are coasting to a stop, it completely dies: the dash display goes blank, the headlight turns off. Now today it happened three times on my way to work! So it's getting worse, it seems.  But always either rolling to a stop or once when I was just moving the bike in my driveway.

Maybe I should just pull the seat and do a basic visual inspection of all the connectors, as I imagine the bike could be at the dealer for months (judging from my past experiences). I should look to see if the error log has anything.