Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MichaelJ]

Hi,

I'm saving up for a Zero S with accessories that will make a commute more comfortable and make 100-200 miles per day touring possible, but after reading a number of posts about factory installed accessories and the trouble caused by installing them later or letting dealerships do the work, I've been wondering how to avoid those mistakes when I order. 

For example, the 98% charging thread expresses concern about what happens with the SOC reporting if the power tank is added later.  The Contactor Error thread describes a faulty power tank that had to be replaced.  And then there's the Power Tank delivery? thread which shows that regardless of whether you want one installed at the factory or by your local dealership, it might not be in stock.

So, of all of Zero's accessories, which ones do you feel would be better installed at the factory, better installed at the dealership, and why?  I understand that there will not be only one answer, depending upon your definition of better.  For example, it might be cheaper and more reliable to get a power tank installed at the factory, but it would be faster to take delivery without one and then add it to the bike later.  Or, there might be a 3rd party heated handgrip product that is cheaper or superior to the stock accessory.

--
Thanks,
Michael

[Richard230]

The 98% charging indication on the display is not a issue.  The charging system will indicate that it is 98% charged, but will jump to 100% about a day later.  Yesterday, my bike was showing 99% after riding three miles.  I then turned it off for a few minutes and when I turned it back on the display said 100%.  So I wouldn't worry about a percent or two, one way or the other, especially if you are familiar with IC motorcycle fuel gauges.  You are lucky if those are as much as 25% accurate.   

As far as accessories go, my first vote would be to purchase a windshield.  Either the Zero commuter shield, or any after-market windshield that fits the bike and fastens to the handlebars, such as the National Cycle Deflector Shield DX.  Note however, that Zero has not tested that windshield and therefore would not recommend its installation.

The next thing I would look at is the Zero combination luggage rack and Give E340 top box - if you can handle the cost.  The top box is very convenient for shopping trips and for securing your helmet and gloves while away from the bike.

If you do not have to carry a passenger, you can also purchase any number of universal semi-soft seat bags.  Just be sure to get a model that attaches to the seat and not to bungee cord hooks, as there are none on the Zero.

The 2014 S and DS come with a "stuff bay" (a BMW term that was used on their F650CS model).  But if you buy the power tank, which replaces the storage bay, you can install most any universal tank bag that is held down by straps and not magnets (the tank area is plastic).

Attached is a photo of my bike showing the Givi box, the rear of a $26 universal tank bag and a RKA removable seat bag.

None of these accessories need to be factory installed.  The Zero instructions that come with their accessories are very complete and easy to install for anyone with a few tools and just a little bit of mechanical ability.  The same goes for the other brand accessories that I mentioned.  The only accessory that I believe needs to be installed at the factory (in my opinion) is the Power Tank.

[WindRider]

I don't think that any accessories are factory installed by Zero.  Your choices are dealer installed or self installed.   The bikes all come in a crate with no accesories on them.   

The answer depends on how much faith you put in your local dealer verses how much faith you have in your mechanical or electrical skills and factor in the cost savings of self install if you are skilled and have the right tools.   

I don't think the 98% thing is a problem at all:  just an observation. 

[MichaelJ]

I don't think that any accessories are factory installed by Zero.  The answer depends on how much faith you put in your local dealer[...].

Sorry for my misunderstanding.  Re-reading the product descriptions for the accessories, I overlooked that many are described as coming with parts are supplied for easy installation, implying that the customer or dealership can do this but not saying whether or not the factory can or will do this if asked.

As a counterexample, the power tank page says:

Upgrade your motorcycle with increased range at any time before or after purchase

 

"Before your purchase" is awkwardly worded; does it mean that some Zeros have the power tank pre-installed?  Or should "purchase" have been replaced by "delivery", to be consistent with the idea that it is not the factory, but the dealership that installs the power tank?

Given that Zero also makes fleet sales (e.g. to law enforcement), it shouldn't be impossible to believe that Zero can do the work of installing accessories at the factory, prior to delivery.  How to request this (without writing a fleet purchase order ), is unclear.

[ultrarnr]

MichaelJ,

The Power Tank is only installed by the dealer, not the factory. Even when you order a S or SR from a dealer with the Power Tank option the Power Tank will be shipped separately and the dealer will install it.

[MichaelJ]

Richard,

thanks for the advice about the accessories!

windscreen

I'm glad to hear you recommend a National Cycle windscreen, I had one on my Suzuki Savage (Boulevard S40) years ago and was very happy with it.  I've always ridden the cruiser or scooter style with a windscreen and find that it saves me from sore arms fighting the wind.  Because the Zero isn't a cruiser, I should try it without the screen to see if I can get used to the wind pressure in a streetbike posture.

In support of not using a windscreen, I'd heard from Mehve that she has experienced distracting pressure waves in her ear caused by turbulence behind the windscreen.  I have not experienced this on my cruiser or scooter, but just in case, appreciate that National Cycle designs are easy to install and remove.

storage

The Givi E340 top case looks great.  My scooter has a top case that I use for exactly that.  $600 seems high, though.  The rack itself Zero sells for $290 and the case Givi itself sells for $160, so that's a $150 markup.

power

I chose the heavy S because I am looking for only maximum range so that I can extend my riding envelope.  I don't use much acceleration when I ride.

Like you, range rather than acceleration is the priority, so the power tank is a must.  By getting the S instead of the SR, I'm saving $2,000 right off the bat, so might as well put that straight into the power tank ($2,500).  Also, despite all of the recommendations in favor of the quick chargers, I feel that for a bike that is going to serve both everyday commuting and the occasional road trip, CHAdeMO is the only practical solution in my area, which does have CHAdeMO stations along the routes I wish to travel.

charging vs. time

For commuting, the advertised range of over 150 city miles is four times the range of my scooter, which I recharge daily.  I might only have to recharge the S every Friday.

For my longer trips--day trips or weekend trips--I want to be delayed as little as possible by recharging stops.  Even with two quick chargers, the Zero S ZF14.2 takes over 5 hours to recharge to 100%, vs. 1.5 hours for CHAdeMO.  Seriously?  If I'm going to stop that long, I might as well stop overnight and let the bike get to 100% in 10 hours @ 120V.

charging vs. storage

Then there's the storage issue.  Let's imagine that instead of the CHAdeMO socket kit ($1,800), I take the advice to buy two quick chargers ($1,200), Y adapter ($250), and extension cords ($40).  That a savings of $200.  With all of that extra charging gear in my top case or saddle bags, how much room is left to carry my toiletries, 2-3 days of clothing, and souvenirs?  If the racks are standard enough, I could buy a larger set of saddle bags, but that would erase the $200 in savings, wouldn't it?

CHAdeMO vs. 2x quick charge

Except for the non-zero possibility that the CHAdeMO DCFCs in my area are not compatible with the Zero, my user scenarios do not make the quick chargers compelling at all.  Either I travel short distances that don't require recharging, or travel far enough that stopping for >5 hours to charge might as well be an overnight stay.

Zero vs. other brand

I've put together a spreadsheet to help me compare the Zero S against other makes and models, but so far the Zero makes the most sense, assuming that I can rely on CHAdeMO.  If I couldn't, then what's next on my stack rank?  When I started this exercise, I really wanted the Brammo Empulse to be #2.  Unfortunately, with a disappointing highway range of only 58 miles @ 70mph vs. Zero's 88, and no CHAdeMO support, it fell to #4, despite superior L2 support.  What's in position 2?  Don't laugh, but the Lit C-1.  Of course, that's based on numbers on paper for a product still under development that hasn't even been seen cornering.  Wait, what's in position #3?  Nothing: I might just stick with my commuter e-scooter until electric motorcycles can easily get over 150-200 miles of highway range.

[protomech]

charging vs. time

For commuting, the advertised range of over 150 city miles is four times the range of my scooter, which I recharge daily.  I might only have to recharge the S every Friday.

For my longer trips--day trips or weekend trips--I want to be delayed as little as possible by recharging stops.  Even with two quick chargers, the Zero S ZF14.2 takes over 5 hours to recharge to 100%, vs. 1.5 hours for CHAdeMO.  Seriously?  If I'm going to stop that long, I might as well stop overnight and let the bike get to 100% in 10 hours @ 120V.

charging vs. storage

Then there's the storage issue.  Let's imagine that instead of the CHAdeMO socket kit ($1,800), I take the advice to buy two quick chargers ($1,200), Y adapter ($250), and extension cords ($40).  That a savings of $200.  With all of that extra charging gear in my top case or saddle bags, how much room is left to carry my toiletries, 2-3 days of clothing, and souvenirs?  If the racks are standard enough, I could buy a larger set of saddle bags, but that would erase the $200 in savings, wouldn't it?

If you have access to CHAdeMO chargers along your route that are compatible with the Zero, then you should buy the CHAdeMO accessory inlet. No question, no debate. It sucks that the inlet is that expensive, but it's worth it if you can use it.

Consider using the 95% charge time instead of the 100% charge time when planning trips .. your typical charging stop would be from 10 to 20% up to whatever SOC where the bike has sufficient range and reserve to get you to your next charging stop. Typically this would be 90% or 95%, so you're looking at a total of 70% to 85% charged per stop.

Charge Type	Power	0-95% time	% in 10 minutes
Onboard	1.3 kW	9.3 hours	1.7%
Onboard + 1 Delta-Q	2.3 kW	5.1 hours	3.1%
Onboard + 2 Delta-Q	3.3 kW	3.6 hours	4.4%
100A CHAdeMO	10 kW	1.2 hours	14.0%
125A CHAdeMO	12.5 kW	1.0 hours	15.8%

Zero vs. other brand

I've put together a spreadsheet to help me compare the Zero S against other makes and models, but so far the Zero makes the most sense, assuming that I can rely on CHAdeMO.  If I couldn't, then what's next on my stack rank?  When I started this exercise, I really wanted the Brammo Empulse to be #2.  Unfortunately, with a disappointing highway range of only 58 miles @ 70mph vs. Zero's 88, and no CHAdeMO support, it fell to #4, despite superior L2 support.  What's in position 2?  Don't laugh, but the Lit C-1.  Of course, that's based on numbers on paper for a product still under development that hasn't even been seen cornering.  Wait, what's in position #3?  Nothing: I might just stick with my commuter e-scooter until electric motorcycles can easily get over 150-200 miles of highway range.

The 2014 Mission R and 2015 Energica Ego both offer DC Quick Charge, 0-85% in 30 minutes. Mission R hasn't specified which QC protocol it uses, Energica Ego uses J1772 Combo which has almost zero market penetration today.

DC Quick Charge for the Lit C1 totally changed my mind about it. We'll see once real range numbers are available, but I suspect because of the aero shell it will be markedly faster to charge in terms of miles per hour than even the larger-battery ZF14.2 bike. Of course, you could always install your own aero shell for the ZF14.2 ...

However, there is a HUGE distinction between the Brammo Empulse and the Zero S ZF14.2 which you can buy TODAY, versus the Lit C1 which very likely will never make it to market (or even the Energica and Mission bikes, which I feel pretty good about but are not yet available). And even if it does, I suspect by 2016 Zero and Brammo will both have high-voltage bikes that can charge very quickly from the dominant DC QC standard *fingers crossed*.