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Author Topic: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes  (Read 6937 times)

protomech

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Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« on: January 10, 2014, 08:58:40 PM »

On Dec 18 2013 Zero notified the NHTSA of recall to properly handle continuing glitches in 2012 and 2013 bikes. You can read about the earlier glitch for 2012 bikes in another post.

For better readability, everything between '****' is a quote from Zero's defect report.

****
DESCRIPTION OF DEFECT:
The subject motorcycles have a controller firmware that may react to infrequently encountered signal faults by discontinuing controller power to the motor. Should one of these faults occur while the motorcycle is being ridden, the controller's response may result in an inadvertent quits-while-running condition, which could lead to a crash.

CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS:
On 09/12/2012, Zero Motorcycles concluded that certain 2012 model year motorcycles had a motor encoder position signal that could drift over the extended use of the motorcycle. Should the encoder signal drift too far, it could fall beyond the signal limits expected by the motor controller. This condition could cause the motor controller firmware to respond to such a signal fault by discontinuing power to the motor, resulting in the inadvertent loss of power of the motorcycle, which could lead to a possible crash. In response to the conclusion of its investigation, Zero Motorcycles determined that a defect related to motor vehicle safety existed and declared a voluntary recall program (12V-455). The remedy in this program involved  a new controller firmware and configuration, which compensates for the possible drift of the motor encoder position signal to ensure it remains within the limits expected by the controller.

Over the next several months, Zero Motorcycles received reports of 2012 and 2013 model year motorcycles that exhibited similar quits-while-running behavior. Since the analysis of each of these reports revealed a variety of unrelated faults as the root cause of the inadvertent power interruption, on 09/20/2013 Zero Motorcycles personnel traveled to Sevcon's headquarters in the United Kingdom to better understand the reason behind such behavior (Sevcon Limited is the manufacturer of the subject controller and developer of its firmware). During the ensuing investigation after this meeting, it became clear to Zero Motorcycles and Sevcon that these random, infrequent and unrelated signal faults could not be avoided in the lifetime of the motorcycle, and that the controller firmware needed to deal with these faults in a different, more reasonable manner.

On 12/05/2013, Zero Motorcycles completed its internal investigation of this concern and concluded that 2012 and 2013 model motorcycles built with a Sevcon controller prior to 11/08/2013 have firmware that could respond to infrequent signal faults by discontinuing controller power to the motor, which could lead to a quits-while-running situation. Zero Motorcycles executive management considered this information and determined that a defect related to motor vehicle safety existed.

Zero Motorcycles is not aware of any accidents or injuries caused by this condition.

DESCRIPTION OF THE PROGRAM TO REMEDY THE DEFECT:
The remedy of this defect is for Zero Motorcycles dealers to update the suspect vehicles with revised controller firmware that deals with these infrequent faults in a way that does not result in an inadvertent quits-while-running condition.
****
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Burton

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 02:50:26 AM »

Thanks for posting this!

I know have another question to ask the dealer before buying my 2013 11.4 soon :)
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frodus

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2014, 03:45:38 AM »

I wonder if this is a Sevcon issue across all sevcon models....
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Travis

protomech

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2014, 06:19:25 AM »

I think the flaw exists across all Sevcon models, when presented with a particular set of input signals.

However, that particular set of input signals may only present itself in certain applications. The Zeros are (apparently) capable of presenting that particular set of input signals. The Brammo bikes may or may not be.
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frodus

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2014, 10:36:08 AM »

I haven't had any issues yet. I'll update if i do.
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Travis

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2014, 10:59:25 AM »

That make me wonder too.

I have 13000Km with no glitch. Daily use for 2*16Km and also for day-trip 200+ Km.

I don't understand what this " infrequently encountered signal faults " are.

But Zero/Sevcon seems to have done a lot of analysis.
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frodus

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2014, 12:12:09 PM »

The encoder signal drifts from what is expected a day the controller doesn't recover safely..... It faults.

Sounds like they worked with sevcon to have the controller recover safely.

Good info in the recall documents.
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Travis

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2014, 02:30:32 PM »

All bikes that use the sevcons will have this fault including the Brammo's. Zero and Sevcon worked together to fix Sevcon's firmware though.

Had Zero not fixed the problem Brammo would also have experienced the problem as encoder drift will happen no matter how you slice it. I presume the only reason it was not noticed was the fewer number of Brammo bikes out there and the lower mileage on those bikes.

-EC

Justin Andrews

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2014, 03:58:18 PM »

I wonder if the Renault Twizzys are using Sin/Cos encoders as well? If so this will be effecting them as well.

Good find on Zero's part.

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zerotracer

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Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2014, 06:50:22 PM »

I have one time tryed where my 2013 Zero was cutting the power to the engine.
It was when I stopped at a traffic light the throttle was dead and I had to "reboot" before the engine could run again.
It only happened 1 time and the bike had back then run about 300 km. at the clock.


My bikes production number is 2887

 8)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 11:08:38 PM by zerotracer »
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Zero S ZF9 - 2012 - production nr. 0014 "sold"
Zero S ZF11.4 - 2013 - production nr. 2887 - firmware updated 12/3-14 - new BMS board 28/7-14 - ZF12.5 battery upgrade 20/4-16

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Jazin

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 11:50:50 PM »

Should this be a factor in considering the purchase of a new 2014 fx?
Any thoughts appreciated.
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protomech

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 01:44:47 AM »

All bikes that use the sevcons will have this fault including the Brammo's. Zero and Sevcon worked together to fix Sevcon's firmware though.

Had Zero not fixed the problem Brammo would also have experienced the problem as encoder drift will happen no matter how you slice it. I presume the only reason it was not noticed was the fewer number of Brammo bikes out there and the lower mileage on those bikes.

I spoke with the Brammo guys at Daytona end of 2012. FWIW, they said they were aware of the encoder drift issue in the stock Sevcon firmware and had corrected it on their end.

I don't know if the second round of glitches is an issue for their bikes. If so, we'll probably see a recall from Brammo as well.

Should this be a factor in considering the purchase of a new 2014 fx?
Any thoughts appreciated.

It wouldn't bother me, Zero has a fix in place. No 2014 bike should leave the factory with this issue.
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swiftsam

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2014, 05:17:52 PM »

wow, I hadn't had a single problem with my '13 (after major glitch time with my '12) until this morning.  Pop on over here to see if there's anything going on with others and the recall is waiting for me.  That's impressive timing.  Bike 2729 with 2500 miles since August.  Cut out 5 or 6 times in 20 miles, mostly when accelerating significantly.  Was able to get going again with a reboot or two each time.  Saw error-blink pattern 4-1 and 3-2 (or maybe 2-3?). 

Sounds like they've got a much better handle on things this time, let's hope the firmware update is a decisive fix.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 05:28:25 PM by swiftsam »
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zerotracer

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Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2014, 03:08:58 AM »

I don´t know where and how to update the controller firmware.
But Zero could make a usb dongle of a kind which you could put in the bike and then it cut flash the firmware itself, it would save Zero for many hours.
And then if there came another new firmware they could do the same ting again.

Just send the dongle thing to all the bikes which has the "glitch" problem, if it don´t work then the customer can get to the dealer
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 03:12:16 AM by zerotracer »
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dkw12002

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Re: Zero issues recall for controller cutouts for 2013 bikes
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 05:15:15 AM »

My bike has never stopped while running, just needs a couple of boots to get it going (4700 miles). Question? Does anyone know if Zero will just update all the 2013 Zeros with new firmware? Are there certain vin nos that are affected but not all? Will Zero send out letters when they are ready to fix the affected bikes?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 05:25:08 AM by dkw12002 »
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