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Author Topic: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup  (Read 1631 times)

ashnazg

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2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« on: September 23, 2013, 11:19:01 PM »

In the last two weeks, I've had multiple recurrences of the throttle being disabled at startup on my 2011 XU.  I don't hear any indications of diagnostic beeps at startup beyong the single selftest beep, so no indication of a startup fault being observed.

Each occurrence has been in the afternoon (5p), after being plugged up all afternoon in the shade (highest temp was 85F).  In most instances, the issue cleared up after anywhere from 3 to 10 restarts over a few minutes.  Given no indications of startup faults, I had initially thought perhaps the kickstand disabler switch might be hanging, but I would assume the red triangle on the instrument panel would flash if the kickstand, kill switch, or some other thing was actively disabling the throttle.

Only one instance of more-odd-than-that has occurred.  Last week, after starting the bike, testing the throttle for two feet to see it was working, I finished suiting up and tried to take off.  I got about a half second of throttle before it disabled.  It took several minutes of restarts to get past this.  It is this working-then-died that has me concerned the most, as I keep imagining it happen at every stoplight I stop at.

As unlikely as I personally think that the issue is a battery temp thing, I started unplugging it around 430p to give it a good 30min unplugged.  I still had one occurrence of disabled throttle since doing that early unplugging.  Granted, I have it either plugged up all workday (800a - 500p) or just since returning from lunch (100p - 500p), but it's certainly not charging all that time... it recharges its half-empty pack in about 30min.

I'm not convinced that there's a loose connection anywhere between the various hardware switches (kickstand, killswitch), since again I think either of those would illuminate the red triangle.  I'm left thinking there's a software bug, or an overzealous temp safety switch somewhere.

This issue has not occurred even once on my morning startups, where it has been plugged up 530p - 730a in my garage.

Ideas anyone?  As background, I got this 2011 XU new in June 2012, and have just under 1800 miles on it.  I drive 7 miles one way to work, so I only use 4 to 5 bars one way, and probably five miles is at 50mph.  It always recharges half-to-full in about 30min, and I've never seen any abnormal light indicators on the charger itself.
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2015 Zero FX -  300mi
2011 Zero XU - 2500mi (previous bike)

protomech

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Re: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2013, 01:34:25 AM »

Quote
I would assume the red triangle on the instrument panel would flash if the kickstand, kill switch, or some other thing was actively disabling the throttle.

It will indicate, at least for the 2012s, if the kickstand or kill switch is engaged. It will not indicate for other things - obviously you don't have the controller issues we have with the 2012 bikes, but for example when the controller glitched no indicator light pattern was displayed.

I think it's fair to eliminate, at least for a first pass, the kickstand sensor and kill switch.

Have you every had it die at a stoplight? Or has it always been when you are starting it after a long "off" period?
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ashnazg

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Re: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 02:07:42 AM »

It has only ever happened during my 5p startup, after unplugging the charger from either a 4hr or 8hr connection (again, the first 30min or less would have been actual charging), parked in an always shaded location, on days where the highest temp would have been maybe 85F in the sun.

The only occurrence of it "going dead" on me was the one time I started it, tested throttle for two feet and it worked, tried to drive off a minute later, it ran for less than one second before throttle disable.  Not power loss, just throttle disable... instrument panel on, kickstand light engaged fine when I put the stand down, etc.  That was the main instance where I wondered if some temperature related trigger engaged itself.
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2015 Zero FX -  300mi
2011 Zero XU - 2500mi (previous bike)

pinaz

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Re: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2013, 05:30:43 AM »

In the last two weeks, I've had multiple recurrences of the throttle being disabled at startup on my 2011 XU.  I don't hear any indications of diagnostic beeps at startup beyong the single selftest beep, so no indication of a startup fault being observed.

That does sound quite similar to a problem I had with a 2011 XU (see "2011 XU died on me" thread on this forum Jan-Feb 2013).

There are at least three fundamental design issues relating to errors (at least on the 2011 XU):

1) blink codes only momentarily appear (and there is no way for a normal user to later retrieve them)
2) there are fundamental errors that the CPU registers which stop the bike but don't create a blink code
3) although a standard OBDII diagnostic connector is on the bike, Zero's implementation is proprietary

Rather than help the customer, Zero just expects there to be a Zero dealership on every corner equipped with their unique diagnostic tools.. and, well, there isn't.

Zero sent random parts, one at a time, for me to install over time.  In the mean time, the bike would just intermittently fail (either at the start or the middle of a journey).

If you have a local dealer, or someone who can access the Main Bike Board computer, see if "HPD Events" (under "stats" menu).

Zero would never confirm or deny this, but in my experience the "HPD Event" would shut down the bike without any indication to the user as to what was going on.
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ashnazg

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Re: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2014, 02:47:00 AM »

After missing most of the 2014 riding season due to a flat front tire, I finally got riding again last month.  After many perfect rides, I had a recurrence of this throttle disabling bug.  Unlike all those late afternoon 2013 occurrences, this one happened to me this morning (55F temp), within 5 minutes of leaving home.  Further, instead of it being a dead throttle at bike startup, this time it went out on me as I was cruising at 35mph.  It stayed dead for a few seconds before coming back, but went in and out several times for the 50 feet leading up to a stop sign.  After stopping, it took several twists before it finally responded, and only ran for 3 seconds.  I pulled over, kept twisting it until it started working again (about 2 minutes), and just turned around and drove it back home (no failures on the way back).
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2015 Zero FX -  300mi
2011 Zero XU - 2500mi (previous bike)

jenn1970

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Re: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2015, 09:44:41 PM »

I just started riding a 2011 XU that my roommate was nice enough to give to me.  It rode pretty well for the first few weeks, but then I started experiencing the same problems you describe.

How did you ever fix the issue?
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Anomaly

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Re: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 09:55:48 PM »

I've started having the same problem with my XU. Has been riding fine for the 2 years I've owned it, but recently will either have no throttle at startup (no errors, display, batt level all good) or else the throttle will cut out a few minutes into riding (again, no errors/beeps, and the batt level etc on the display are all good).

I'm worried that these may be fatal symptoms for these bikes, but would also like to know if anyone else has had these issues and resolved them. Very frustrating as the range was steady and predictable right up until these issues.
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cat33

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Re: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2016, 02:50:10 AM »

This thread might be old, nevertheless I have exactly the same throttle behavior on my 2011 XU. There is no beeping and no error visible. Once it just stopped while driving. I have sent Zero support an email but they didn't even respond. I'm not really happy with an unreliable bike. One thing I have seen is that the sensor at the sprocket was lit. Perhaps the problem has something to do with this sensor. What is this sensor doing exactly, does anybody know? Has anyone of you managed to solve this issue?
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cat33

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Re: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2016, 03:53:14 AM »

Perhaps I have found the solution for the intermittently disabling throttle. It could possibly be corrected with a firmware update. I don't know if my dealer is willing to work on my obsolete 2011 XU. I will post more when it is fixed. See below.

Zero Motorcycles released a statement announcing that they intended to recall 667 motorcycles due to faulty firmware that may cause the bike to lose power while running, potentially resulting in a crash.
According to Zero, “the subject motorcycles have a controller firmware that may react to infrequently encountered signal faults.” In layman’s terms, the signal to the motor controller may drift over the course of extended use of the bike, causing the motor to shut down sporadically.
The models in question are as follows:
2012  Zero XU: production date 10/21/2011-7/25/2012
2012 Zero S: production date 10/21/2011-7/5/2012
2012 Zero DS: production date 10/21/2011-4/3/2013
2013 Zero XU: production date 1/31/2013-5/21/2013
2013 Zero FX: production date 1/25/2013-6/20/2013
2013 Zero S: production date 1/21/2013-11/8/2013
2013 Zero DS: production date 1/24/2013-10/21/2013
Some owners have claimed that Zero has known about this problem for some time and have been slow to respond to the issue. Zero stated in their defect notice, that they had recognized there was a problem as early as September of 2012.
Zero has said it will remedy the defect by updating the motor controller firmware and configuring it to compensate for the signal drift. According to the NHTSA, the recall is expected to begin in mid-January and will be of no charge to owners.
Concerned owners may also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or go to www.safercar.gov.
Source: NHTSA
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Ndm

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Re: 2011 XU Disabled Throttle at Startup
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2016, 04:57:13 AM »

My bike has had the motor replaced by the previous owner for that exact problem, I have a problem where there is no regeneration on braking, but it will Regen with the throttle
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