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[trikester]

The shape of things to come! Check this out and particularly notice the statement on energy density compared to Li Ion. Unfortunately, in this "copy and paste" the link to the full story won't work. Here's the link to the full story: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2013/rechargeable-flow-battery-enables-cheaper-large-scale-energy-storage-0816.html

I've been following developments in fluid flow batteries. One thing they have in common is this: If you don't want to wait while the battery is charging you have the option of just pumping out the discharged fluid and pumping in fluid that has already been charged. The discharged fluid is transferred to a device where it is recharged for the next customer in a hurry (the same fluid is used over and over again). You are now ready to go in no more time than it takes to fill a gas tank.

Trikester

RECHARGEABLE FLOW BATTERY
MIT researchers have engineered a new rechargeable flow battery that does not rely on expensive membranes to generate and store electricity. The device, they say, may one day enable cheaper, large-scale energy storage.

The palm-sized prototype generates three times as much power per square centimeter as other membraneless systems — a power density that is an order of magnitude higher than that of many lithium-ion batteries and other commercial and experimental energy-storage systems.

The device stores and releases energy in a device that relies on a phenomenon called laminar flow: Two liquids are pumped through a channel, undergoing electrochemical reactions between two electrodes to store or release energy.

Read the full story.

[Marshm]

Would be neat to have an order of magnitude over Li-ion.  It looks like the fluids are not supposed to mix and typically use a membrane so they don't.  They control the flow so they don't mix all that much, then deleted the membrane.  I think that might work for a stationary power source, but try that offroad and I bet there will be a lot of mixing.  Maybe not that good of technology for a motorcycle.  They might be able to make it work. 

[trikester]

I know in the past development and research of this technology it has been aimed at large stationary bulk storage of electrical power. You're probably right, that it wouldn't like to be jostled. They do talk about laminar flow so that would be sensitive to being disturbed, I didn't think about that when I read it. Good point. We'll just have to wait until that problem is solved.

I remember reading about one development (it my also have been at MIT) some time ago that was thought to have future application in vehicles. I posted it somewhere on the Zero forum.

I do think we  are seeing the slow march toward the demise of the ICE for everyday transportation use. Of course, like the vacuum tube and the horse, it won't disappear completely. I started my engineering career using vacuum tubes, I have a nice antique collection of them now. The first "small" business computer I worked on took up an entire room, needed huge air conditioning for the massive heat from all those tubes, and had about as much capability as an $8 Radio Shack calculator does now (maybe less).

Trikester

[ColoPaul]

The draw to flow batteries is quick charging at a "flow battery juice" station.  A lot of promise, but still out there a ways due to the 'infrastructure' problem.

Here is a pretty cool incremental step - LiS batteries: cheaper, less flammable, equivalent life and 4x the energy density of current Li-ion technologies.
http://phys.org/news/2013-06-all-solid-sulfur-based-battery-outperforms-lithium-ion.html

Can you imagine a ZF 46 battery in the same space/weight as the current ZF11.5?   With a ~350 mile range you might consider touring, and you'd only have to charge while you sleep.

[dkw12002]

Wow....or a quarter the weight for the same range which would be my 1st choice. That bike would fly.

[trikester]

Fantastic! Lithium/sulfur solid state batteries.

Now we have SHAPES of things to come!

Trikester