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[gsyyz]

Hello,

I'm thinking of purchasing a brand new 2011 Zero S from an Ex Zero Dealer clearing out his remaining stock.  My question is, how can I know if he has kept the Bike/Battery properly maintained while sitting in his Dealership for 3 years?  It only has 35 kms and he is willing to sell it for 6K Canadian, is that a good price?  Also with the 2012 and 2013 improvements in motor and battery am I going to regret purchasing this 2011?  I think I can bring him down to maybe 5K but I don't want to get stuck with a lemon.  I've been following Zero for a few years and finally some older models are coming available in my price range.  I know some brand new 2012 DS are going on clearance here in Canada for around 8K but that's still way over my budget.

Any advice would be great,

GSYYZ

[protomech]

Ask about the warranty coverage. The 2011 bikes came with two years of warranty. If it is brand new then the warranty should be intact. Consider how you will transport the bike to the nearest dealer in case of the bike needing service.

Ask the dealer how they maintained the battery. 99% probability that he just left the bike plugged in. Count on some level of range degradation .. the 2011 batteries were not as durable as the 2012 batteries.

Ask about recalls. The 2011 bikes have seen at least 2 recalls. NHTSA link

We've seen a couple of reports from owners that have recently bought a "new" 2011 bike and then seen battery issues. I don't know how common this is - chances are that owners with perfectly working bikes won't log on to post. Factor that risk into the price you're willing to pay.

Alternatively, you could ask the dealer for a grace period to return the bike if there are immediate problems. I would think any issues would likely show up within a 1 week period. If the dealer is a motivated seller then you should be able to come to agreeable terms.

$6k canadian sounds high, especially if you can get a 2012 DS (assume ZF6) for $8k.

[gsyyz]

Thanks protomech, when I asked about the warranty he wasn't sure and said maybe a year left on it.  I'm guessing he activated the warranty with Zero.

I'll definately ask about the recalls and review the link you provided, this Dealership is located 4 hours away from me but I have two local Dealers to deal with 30 minutes away if needed.  I love the Zero S and I was attracted to this Dealership since they had one in stock at a reasonable price.

My main concern is the battery life and the motor not being brushless, I've read that you can't even compare the 2012 S to the 2011.  Even if I get this bike for 4K will I be able to purchase a new battery from Zero to replace it in the future?   I know parts are slowly discontinuing for 2011, I'm excited about this 2011 Zero S mainly because of the price and the reality of owning one of these bikes.

[eyeinsky]

Hi

I just bought the 2011 XU 20 mile on it for 4k it only has the 2kw batt but based on the real life condition you will probable only see 1/2 the rated miles. Spoke to Zero and they said that that was the average. I think that a potential buyer should have realistic exception of the bikes range.

So based on that you are looking at 30 mile range with the 4.4 kw battery.

Here the PDF that will provide you with the info on how to establish the battery setup see below. not part of my operator manual.

So far my bike working well and my range is about 15 miles with 1000 mile on it now. In the future I will be adding a supplemental battery to increase my range to 30 mile. Here's some of the modification I done so far: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3051.0

Good luck with the purchase let ut know how you make out.

Jerry

 





 

[protomech]

Even if I get this bike for 4K will I be able to purchase a new battery from Zero to replace it in the future?

I would definitely shoot this question to Zero customer service.
888-RUN-ZERO or service@zeromotorcycles.com

Let us know what you hear back.

I'd love to see Zero support the older bikes (yes, a 2.5 year old design is older!) with newer battery chemistries. Even if the absolute volume is small, improved parts availability is a huge boon to existing customers and potential new customers.

[manlytom]

My main concern is the battery life and the motor not being brushless, I've read that you can't even compare the 2012 S to the 2011.  Even if I get this bike for 4K will I be able to purchase a new battery from Zero to replace it in the future?   I know parts are slowly discontinuing for 2011, I'm excited about this 2011 Zero S mainly because of the price and the reality of owning one of these bikes.

Hi,
I am happily riding a 2011 and at about 6000km I have replaced the brushes. Zero support has been very helpful in particular as the nearest Dealer from us is about 5000 miles away now! Just that we are not sure if indeed the brushes have been the problem (they did not look to bad) or in fact the contactor arcing. If the dealer near you is willing to support you during what is left of warranty or based on labour with parts free from Zero it might be an easy call. Otherwise, I found it much easier to work on a Zero than on any ICE bike.

What I like at the older models is that they use mostly standard EV parts. This means spares and knowledge is more readily available within the EV community. An item to consider if the support ends and parts are discontinued by Zero. For any battery issues I am not to concerned; in the battery pack seem to be some sort of standard batteries and any EV/battery expert could assist to replace faulty batteries. Then again, wasn't there a warranty or guarantee of 30,000 miles on the 2011 batteries ?? So should be quite save. Would be interested to hear if the battery is indeed good (ie. has been kept plugged in). I heard from dealers that did not keep the bikes plugged in !! Therefore a test (how to anyone?), or 14 day test purchase with the right to return ? 

In terms of range typical get 60km-70km in mixed riding (commuting around town with some freeways). Happy with that.

[NoiseBoy]

It would have to be alot cheaper than that for me to even consider it.  They are fairly nippy but need more maintenance and range is poor.  Do you have experience with EV's?

If i was you id save for a few more months and get a 2012 model bike.

[gsyyz]

Hi Guys,

Thank you so much for your feedback, this community is mind blowing.  I have ZERO experience with EV's or with ICE motorcyles.  I've owned a Suzuki Maurader 800cc ten years ago and only put 1000km on the bike before selling it, I didn't attempt any maintenance or mods so again I have very little experience.  Something that attracted me to the EV world was the low maintenance (no oil changes, fluids, gas, transmission etc.) on the bikes.  One of the big selling points at my local Zero Dealership.  But after reading through this forum it seems like work needs to be done on certain parts like the motor after only a few thousand kms.  Don't get me wrong I'm still very interested and will be calling Zero customer service today to ask about warranty.  I do see some used 2012 Zero s coming up for around 8K but again that is out of my price range.  Maybe in the spring of 2014 2012's will come down in price.

I am considering making the 4 hour drive to the Dealer that has the 2011 Zero S for sale, again this Dealer only has the one Zero for sale.  He lost his Zero Dealership in 2012 and only sells EV scooters, he actually told me that he paid 10k for the bike new as a Dealer owner and losing his shirt on selling it for 6K.  I bet if I offered him $4500.00 he would take it but you never know. 

What would you pay for a brand new 2011 Zero S?

I'll keep you guys updated on what Zero has to say about the warranty on a 2011 S.

Thanks,

GSYYZ

[protomech]

With a full warranty and a magic new battery, I'd pay $5k USD for a 2011 S.

The 2013 XU ZF2.8 represents a hard upper limit ($8k USD) for older bike pricing. With similar range (38 miles city vs 43 miles city 2011 S), higher top speed, and MUCH faster acceleration .. nevermind the lower maintenance motor, lower weight, phone connectivity, modular battery .. it's just a much better bike IMO.

With a questionable battery, I'd pay $3k USD for the 2011 bike and just factor in an expected replacement into my costs.

If I had a return option (7 day or 14 day), I'd pay $3.5k to $4k USD.

All of the above is predicated upon either doing my own servicing (easier on 2011 than 2012+) or being near a Zero service center.

[gsyyz]

Thank you for the great advice protomech, “magic new battery”  can you actually replace the 2011 with an updated 2012 battery?  Factoring in all the unknowns with this 2011 S I’m willing to take the risk if I can get it for $3.5K to $4K.  The good thing is I have two Zero service centers within 30 kms away from my house.  Now the challenge is to get the darn bike for that price, wish me luck.  Giving Zero a quick call regarding warranty.

Thanks,

GZYYZ

[gsyyz]

Contacted Zero’s customer service and there is no warranty available for the 2011 Zero S, their advice is to stay clear away from the 2011 technology and wait for a used  2012 Zero S to come available.  That’s advice straight from the manufacturer, he mentioned that the technology in the 2012’s will remain the same until 2016. 

What do you guys think about that comment from Zero?

[protomech]

By "magic new battery" I mean one that is in 2011-new condition. Even a "new" 2011 battery will have today have degraded substantially if not ridden regularly.

Edit: there are four maintenance cycles for a battery of this age. Ranked from least injurious to most injurious:
1. Stored in moderate temperatures at ~50% SOC, periodically going through a charge / discharge / balance cycle
2. Ridden frequently, for a typical commute cycle this means 1/2 the day at < 100% SOC
3. Left on the charger @ 100% SOC
4. Left uncharged @ 0% SOC ("bricked")

I assume Zero meant the 2013 bikes. They switched battery suppliers and motors for the 2013 bikes, but I'm not surprised they'll carry that technology for a couple of years.

Without a warranty I'd second their recommendation to stay away from the bike, unless you have an opportunity to ride it for an extended period of time (3-5 discharge cycles) and verify that it works properly.

If you're willing to tinker with it, then by all means talk them down and buy it if they're reasonable with the price. But just expect a battery that has been left on a charger for 2 years to be less than 100%.

[craigq]

Where in Canada are you? Mitchell Cycle in Southern Ontario might have something left over from demo stock etc. (i.e. they have a 2012 XU for sale at $3,000, not sure of the KM though).

[gsyyz]

Protomech thank you for your detailed information and advice, after doing more research and this wonderful forums advice I’m leaning towards not getting the 2011 S.  To many unknowns with the battery and honestly I don’t have the time and patience to tinker.

Craigq I live maybe 2 hours from Mitchell and yesterday when I chatted with Eric he didn’t have a used or new 2012 XU.  I would jump on a used 2012 XU for 3K in a heartbeat, the range of the XU is my only concern.  I do see a couple of used 2012 XU’s for sale in the 5K range in my area.  But deals out there for Brand New DS’s for under 8K would be more appealing if only I could afford it.

[craigq]

Sorry he must have sold it between the time it was posted (28-july) on the zero forum and when you called.