Topic: Zero 2014 Model Speculations (Read 13938 times)

BZERO · « **on:** August 07, 2013, 05:25:14 AM »

Greetings,

I recently decided to get a motorcycle as a second vehicle for commuting purposes (as well as the occasional joy ride) and I am absolutely psyched about the Zero S. However, I wont be able to buy one until at least September, and due to military training won't be riding for the first 1/3 (at least) of next year. From everything I read, both on this forum, and across the web it sounds like Zero isn't likely to introduce any major new changes into the 2014 models. Any ideas on when those would be announced? I know that the federal tax rebates this year expire, which means the new 2014 would cost at least the 10% extra from the lack of a tax rebate in addition to whatever the additional cost for the new models would be. Anybody have any speculations about what the new 2014 model (for the S) will be like, and when it would be announced? Speculations more than welcome.

Thanks

Richard230 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2013, 06:28:15 AM »

I have no idea what the 2014 models will be like, but I plan to buy one too. Historically (such as it is), Zero tends to announce the specifications for their new models around September or October, with the bikes arriving around the end of January.

protomech · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2013, 10:18:48 AM »

P(0.90) larger controller, at least as an option (~70 hp)
P(0.70) reliability improvements (everything learned in last year)
P(0.70) tweaked plastics
P(0.60) LED headlight (option?)
P(0.50) J1772 inlet, possibly faster onboard charger
P(0.30) price drop (~$1000) .. probably not if J1772 inlet, LED headlight, other upgrades
P(0.10) battery tweaks.. possibly slightly higher voltage (unlikely) or a ZF17 option?

Marshm · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2013, 11:10:19 AM »

Suspension upgrades like different rear shock.
Reliability updates for electrical.
Lighter weight FX modification kit.

The last one I mean for offrosd use, lighter is better and the FX could really use less weight.
Offroad bike does not need to carry the charger.
Doesn't need swapable batteries because they are so expensive I don't think very many people are using that feature. Not sure how much weight that would actually save. Unless swappable allows the bike to be ridden with only one battery, and then be charging the other. Then swap batteries back and forth for continuous ride time. I think it might take longer to charge 1 then it would take to drain one, so this feature probably does not work.
Lights and blinkers and other street legal stuff.

It really is nice to have street legal for the FX, but in pure offroad rides it would be better to have it lighter. So I was thinking Zero could sell the FX, but put together some data about how to modify it to reduce the weight. For example, if some electrical connectors are unplugged to remove the charger, a kit could include some caps to keep dirt out. It is a way to get the offroad model sort of back in the lineup without actually building any.

Le Z Turbo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2013, 01:09:57 PM »

I would bet.... almost nothing, just the correction for the electrical problem and the spocket getting loose problem.... These bikes are only one year old, it costs so much money to change a model and if it changes to much in 2014 I will wait for the 2015 model, in 2015 for the 2016 one....etc....etc
So what do you think about "nothing changes" ?

NoiseBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2013, 03:41:21 PM »

Im with Z Turbo. I know Zero have a history of major upgrades every year but Im reasonably confident we will see only minor updates and tweaks for 2014. I dont think it makes economic sense to maintain a 9 month overhaul cycle. The big Japanese companies can't afford so neither will Zero in the long run. The new motor doesn't have alot of miles under its belt so a size 6 option would be a dangerous PR risk I think. Yes they could have the fastest practical e-bike or they could have the biggest warranty claim for melted motors.

Marshm, they already made a lighter FX. That was the MX which they no longer sell, I believe because the drivetrain was capable of doing things (like launching the bike over tabletops) that the chassis couldn't cope with.

Richard230 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2013, 08:49:38 PM »

Zero has more engineers than any other category of employee, according to what I have heard about the makeup of their staff. Those guys are going to be doing something, but I agree that I am not expecting a lot of new stuff for 2014. I figure they will be working on motor cooling, glitch-proofing, minor suspension and brake upgrades and re-tuning and a few new accessories - along with bold new graphics. Based upon what I have heard in press ride reports about the motor running hot when being run up to top speed for more that a few minutes, I figure that a size 6 controller is not likely to be offered until motor cooling can be improved.

Also, with the federal tax rebate likely going away, Zero is going to be under a lot of pressure to bring the price of their bikes down $10, or at the very least hold the line on prices if the bikes will be upgraded with features like ABS.

trikester · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2013, 08:54:13 PM »

Quote

Unless swappable allows the bike to be ridden with only one battery, and then be charging the other.

That's exactly what it means. The FX can be ridden with just one battery, which takes out 42 pounds for shorter rides. However, the max power is reduced to the motor so that one battery doesn't supply more maximum current going solo as when it is sharing with the second battery. The 400 amp controller is thereby limited to 200 amps.

For the kind of trail riding I do (cruising) I probably wouldn't notice the difference except maybe on a very steep pitch. I doubt that I have ever ha my throttle at maximum when on dirt.

Trikester

firepower · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2013, 09:05:33 PM »

I like to see full faired option, reducing drag at speed should increase the range and top speed.

protomech · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2013, 09:12:29 PM »

Yes. A fairing would be a huge, huge boost to both top speed, range, and effective charge rate (miles/hour). Cheaper, lighter than adding batteries or chargers (after a point, there's still significant gains that can be achieved with faster chargers).

I don't understand why neither Brammo nor Zero have offered a faired option yet. Perhaps it's to establish brand identity (fairings can look a little generic) ..

dkw12002 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2013, 12:15:55 AM »

Ya, but then you'd have to take off fairings to get to the oil filter and change the oil and adjust the valves. LOL . I don't like faired bikes except for race bikes and then you need to go with the whole design...fly screen, clip-ons to get you down under the air resistence. These bikes are more mainstream as they are presently designed. A faired option would be fine though.

I am always for better range, higher sustained speed, better acceleration though except not at the expense of weight or much weight gain. Even though I have a 2013 Zero S, I would buy a 2014 if it improved in those three areas with no more than 10 lbs weight gain total. A sustained speed of 86 mph rather than 80, acceleration 0-60 mph of under 5 rather than under 6 seconds, and a highway range of 65 miles at 70 mph rather than 53, all with no more than a curb weight of 365 lbs rather than 355 lbs. I have no idea if it could be done. A quicker charging system is not important to me. In fact I prefer to plug into 110. I like the upright seated position too and looks of the bike. Smaller changes like improved tires, brakes and suspension (not really so small I guess) would help a little, but lacking the big 3 improvements, I'll probably not buy another Zero S in 2014.

emotofreak · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2013, 12:31:43 AM »

Just to be clear on how this works. When running one module it limits the "battery amps" not "motor amps". The end result is you have the "exact same" torque available up to about 45mph, with the bike weighing 42 lbs less. If you don't need the range, or full power at high speeds, it is much better to run the single module.

Quote from: trikester on August 07, 2013, 08:54:13 PM

Quote
Unless swappable allows the bike to be ridden with only one battery, and then be charging the other.

That's exactly what it means. The FX can be ridden with just one battery, which takes out 42 pounds for shorter rides. However, the max power is reduced to the motor so that one battery doesn't supply more maximum current going solo as when it is sharing with the second battery. The 400 amp controller is thereby limited to 200 amps.

For the kind of trail riding I do (cruising) I probably wouldn't notice the difference except maybe on a very steep pitch. I doubt that I have ever ha my throttle at maximum when on dirt.

Trikester

Marshm · « **Reply #12 on:** August 08, 2013, 09:26:38 AM »

If the torque is the same up to 45 mph between 1 or 2 packs then this option does have more benifit than I thought, since I don't ride over 45mph offroad.

However, what I meant was a little different. For example, I ride using 1 pack and use up the energy. Then I go back to the truck and swap it out for a fully charged pack #2. Now the drained pack #1 is charging in the parking lot while I am riding. When I drain the 2nd pack, and go back to the parking lot, what will be the charging status of the first pack? Will it be fully charged, or 50% charged? I was hoping that by the time I drained 1 pack, the other would have had enough time to go to full charge on 110AC. This way the bike could be used all day. With harder offroad use, I suspect it is much faster to drain a pack then it is to charge one. I think to really ride all day by swapping, it would require more batteries and more chargers than just what the FX has.

I was doing an analysis like this on my battery powered chainsaw before I bought it a while ago. As it turns out, I am so out of shape that for the most part, it lasts long enough on 1 battery.

trikester · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2013, 08:57:26 PM »

Quote

Just to be clear on how this works. When running one module it limits the "battery amps" not "motor amps". The end result is you have the "exact same" torque available up to about 45mph, with the bike weighing 42 lbs less. If you don't need the range, or full power at high speeds, it is much better to run the single module.

Actually battery amps and motor amps are the same. What is being pulled from the battery is going to the motor, there is no other significant load for the battery than the motor.

Notice in my original comment I underlined maximum amps. Emotofreak and I are saying exactly the same thing. One pack or two the only effect in riding characteristics of the motor would be when asking for full power. Anything less and it would be the same except a lighter bike and less range with one batt.

As soon as the desert cools down next fall I going to try some shorter rides with one battery on my FX. I didn't do that yet because I was having too much fun doing long rides. But I've got some good shorter rides available near my desert cabin.

I probably won't ride the trike with one battery because all the weight would be on one side. Fast turns would be freaky, kind of like a sidecar rig.

Trikester

BSDThw · « **Reply #14 on:** August 09, 2013, 12:10:08 AM »

I think emotofreak is right, if you limit your motor current it will slow down the whole acceleration, if you limit the battery max to 200A you can use 420A at low speed because it is a step down system so 400A will be possible till you reach ~half of battery voltage. Higher voltage => speed will reduce the current!
The intermediate circuit filter should average it. (hope this work in English but I think you know what I like to explain)

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Author Topic: Zero 2014 Model Speculations (Read 13938 times)

BZERO

Zero 2014 Model Speculations

Richard230

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

protomech

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

Marshm

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

Le Z Turbo

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

NoiseBoy

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

Richard230

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

trikester

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

firepower

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

protomech

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

dkw12002

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

emotofreak

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

Marshm

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

trikester

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations

BSDThw

Re: Zero 2014 Model Speculations