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Author Topic: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure  (Read 1964 times)

WindRider

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2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« on: July 31, 2013, 08:10:30 AM »

My 2012 DS ZF9 has been perfect to date.   Always boots up, never any throttle response errors, no glitches.  5300 miles on the odometer this AM.

I made my usual commute to work and plugged in today upon arrival.   I am paranoid about a GFI trip or something that will not allow the bike to charge while I toil away so I generally check the charge status before lunch.   It has always worked perfectly so today I didn't look at it until about 2 PM and I found the energy meter at only 6 bars.... I arrived at work with 5 bars left so it should have been full or near full.  It charged for an hour or so before the electrons stopping flowing to the batt pack.

A quick check of the BMS LEDs showed only the 4th LED blinking GRN about every 5 secs.   No other LEDs flashing like normal during charge.   Looking down at the Delta Q charger there are no LEDs on it..... HMMMM.   I moved the bike to the shade (it was hot here today) and plugged it back in and consulted the owners manual.  From what I could determine the BMS was indicating all is OK but no charge is in progress.   This would be a confirmation of no LEDs on the Delta Q.

The bike is still under warranty so I called the local dealer and hustled it over there for them to look at.   They were not able to resolve it by end of day and will work on it again tomorrow.

Any ideas from the amazing Electric Motorcycle Forum ?

It wasn't all bad... the local dealer (Big Twin BMW in Boise, ID) is full of awesome people and they gave me a new Husky Terra Demo bike to ride home on!   Nice bike.  And I CAN still remember how to clutch and shift.   :  )

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2008 Yamaha WR250R 
Past E Bikes:  2010 Zero XU, 2012 Zero DS9, 2013 FX5.7

Richard230

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2013, 08:58:18 PM »

I don't have any ideas about your charging problem, but I do like the Husky.  Too bad it is a dead-end model.   :(
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

WindRider

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 11:36:14 PM »

Hi Richard,

They say the Terra will be available next year as well... it will likely have a KTM powerplant though.   The local dealer says that they will still have the Husky brand on the floor next year.

Just got the call from the dealer... the charger is dead.   They are going to replace it.   Hopefully it will come in quickly.

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2008 Yamaha WR250R 
Past E Bikes:  2010 Zero XU, 2012 Zero DS9, 2013 FX5.7

BSDThw

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 06:01:37 PM »

On the right side at the end of the battery box there are the two fuses 30A for the charger but your dealer will have checked this first.

Inside the Delta-Q is a fuse too.

If your bike was not at the dealer I personally would unplug the Delta-Q at the Battery back and connect it to the quick charge port, if not working it will be most likely the Delta-Q is defect. Having measurement equipment you could test much more.

Hope it is only a simple problem!
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Air Drag Sucks - 2012 Zero DS ZF9 - 2013 Zero FX ZF5.7

WindRider

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 12:26:11 AM »

Thanks for those tips BSD.   Since the failure happened in the middle of a work day and the bile is still under warranty, taking it to the dealer only a few miles away was expedient. 

They verified my quick diagnosis:  no charge from DeltaQ.   New DeltaQ should be installed on Tuesday and back on the road.   
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2008 Yamaha WR250R 
Past E Bikes:  2010 Zero XU, 2012 Zero DS9, 2013 FX5.7

WindRider

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 09:22:21 AM »

Got the bike back today but it is still not charging.   After some troubleshooting I discovered that it will charge via the Auxiliary port.   

Couple of questions:

-   Does anyone know if there is anything different about connecting the Charger to the main port instead of the Auxiliary port?  I already verified the fuse, so it is not that.

-   Does anyone know what the correct charge profile for a DeltaQ should be for a 2012 DS ZF9?   I discovered that the Charger can be set to different profiles during my troubleshooting and would like to verify that it is setup correctly for my battery pack.
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2008 Yamaha WR250R 
Past E Bikes:  2010 Zero XU, 2012 Zero DS9, 2013 FX5.7

BSDThw

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 09:54:20 PM »

I got this (Photo Attached) when ordered my 2 separate Delta-Qs

At Delta-Q there is also a Video to explain the programming ::)



I am not 100% informed but it should make no big difference when you use the Quick-charger inlet, I do it if I want to charge with 2KW. I don't connect the standard charger to the grid and only use 2 at the Quick-charger inlet. The Charger should get a switch off signal from the BMS when one cell if over 4,15V.

I have monitored my chargers last Sunday and they reduce current before the voltage has more than 74,7V to 0A!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 10:01:30 PM by BSDThw »
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Doctorbass

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 11:10:19 PM »

This might also not be the current line, but the signal line on the charge port. ( throttle enable, BMS enable lines) that could be deffetive

Using some jumpers 14 gauge,  to know if your charger is working you can connect the white  and black wires together( this will be your negative)

Connect that directly to the controller high power input. (connect black and white wires from your charger together and connect to the main negative iterminal nput of the controller. Then connect the red wire from the charger to the positive terminal of the controller 9 under the seat.

Than power up your DS.

If the charger turn ON and the current meter led  are active, than your charger is good.

THIS IS ONLY FOR TESTING SO DONT LEAVE THESE CONNECTIONS  TO CHARGE YOUR ZERO.

Doc

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WindRider

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2013, 09:48:10 AM »

Thanks for the replies BSD and Doc.

I took some time after to work to try and reconnect back to the main charge connector.   It is quite a dexterity test and I managed to reproduce the problem exactly.   I found that the connector appears to be fully seated but the connector has some locking tabs.   In order to get the connector fully in and locked into position it takes a fair amount of force and when it finally went over the locking tabs I heard it click into position and viola:  charging again.   All indications on the BMS are active and normal!

I still have some concern for the Delta Q charge mode and would like to verify that it is correct for a 2012 Zero DS ZF9.   The video that BSD mentioned shows the programming sequence and how to determine what profile the charger is currently setup to use but what is the right profile for my bike?
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2008 Yamaha WR250R 
Past E Bikes:  2010 Zero XU, 2012 Zero DS9, 2013 FX5.7

BSDThw

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2013, 11:44:51 PM »

I got my chargers last year for my 2012 DS ZF9 I am pretty sure I checked the programming ( i am inquisitive ) and it was the number "123".

I found this Information and it conforms the charger setup is OK, what I could see, the charger reduce current before reaching the end-off-charge-voltage. I just started to measure the behavior of the BMS and Delata-Q, up to now I could not see the BMS switching off the charger(whit and green wire ), maybe my battery is balanced sooo good that no cell top the 4.15-4.2V limit   ;D

http://2012zeroxu.blogspot.de/2012/05/2012-zero-xu-fasteners.html

Quote
...Next up, I lifted the seat, to discover no quick-charge harness! Took a look in the standalone charger box, no harness there either. Took a closer look at the papers that came with the charger, and noticed the following:
ALGID 123
E-MOLI IMR26700 22S12P (34,8AH) LI-ION W/Q72

I thought 2012's were supposed to have EIG lithium ion pouch cells, not the cylindrical E-Moli cells of the previous year's models!?!? I went online, checked endless-sphere.com and confirmed the EIG vs E-Moli for 2012's. I emailed a contact at Zero asking for verification of the quick charge harness and the charger/algorithm, then remembered that one of the battery engineers at Zero is active on a couple of the electric motorcycle forums. I PM'd him and he replied quickly. It seems that the algorithm on the charger is fine (the standalone and bike-mounted chargers have the same part number and description decals) and that the algorithm spec sheet was printed with incorrect information.

Now all I have to do is wait for the quick charge harness to show up, and install that...

On the Photo you can see the wires "read - green - white - black" when I cut the cable to connect my boxes!
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Air Drag Sucks - 2012 Zero DS ZF9 - 2013 Zero FX ZF5.7

WindRider

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2013, 06:01:32 AM »

Thanks for the reply BSDThw,

I really like your Givi Case Charger setup.   Have you ever tried touring or taking some trips with that setup?

I have wanted to take some longer trips and was thinking about building a DOC style MeanWell charging top case that I could put on the Bike for long trips and find some juice as strategic locations along the way where there is something to do while "quick" charging.

It is easier to just buy another motorcycle and put some gas in the beast but the idea of distant travel on Electric power is enticing.
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2008 Yamaha WR250R 
Past E Bikes:  2010 Zero XU, 2012 Zero DS9, 2013 FX5.7

BSDThw

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Re: 2012 Zero DS Charge Failure
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2013, 10:59:11 AM »

I do sometimes distance trips, I look for charging stations in a distance under 100km so I have always a bit reserve to find a place.

I roughly calculate "4bars per hour" using my 3 delta-q for charging; 2 or 2,5h will refill my bike so I do often a trip refilling the bike 1 or 2 times a trip.

I plan to upgrade the charger but the MeanWell are not on stock for the next 12 month as I saw (Germany) on the other side I work on a project that could be modified to a 5-6kW charger, but I have to spent some time for this.
I am not sure how to put the amps to the battery - charging when the bike is ON to the Sevcon connectors is not my option I will go shopping... while charging.
To open the battery box? To switch the battery box mean relay? - I am pretty sure Doc will come up with a nice solution before me  ;)
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Air Drag Sucks - 2012 Zero DS ZF9 - 2013 Zero FX ZF5.7
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