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Author Topic: Battery amp\hour monitoring  (Read 2308 times)

eyeinsky

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Battery amp\hour monitoring
« on: July 28, 2013, 02:31:08 AM »

I was test my 2011 XU today checking the max range of my bike. Too many comments of inaccurate calibrate battery indicators from the stock gauge set. Last two days I had to push the bike home 1 to 2 km just because as i was taking it to the limits I ran out of electrons ;D So this is what I know base on two test runs I have the range of 20 km and the battery was done. The best I can see they use voltage of the pack to indicate the value of battery charge. At the point the battery ndicates 1 bar at 50% range 10 km. Is this normal?

Charging the pack back up this is what i noticed; with my clamp on DC amp meter I was reading current in to the battery at 17 amp. This sound about correct since the deltQ will charge at 18 amps. The Battery basically maintained that load for about 95 minutes 57.5 volt. Not sure if that is normal but that's what it did. What do you guys get on yours?

I'm looking to buy and modify hobby type watt meter to monitor charging values into the battery basically count the ah going into the battery. This information will be valuble to monitor battery health.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVANCE-DC-WATT-METER-with-SERVO-WIRE-Realtime-DataLogging-Volt-Amp-Watt-Ah-Wh-/200919714039?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec7bf88f7   
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 02:43:53 AM by eyeinsky »
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iJustride

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2013, 04:15:24 AM »

Check out a kill-a-watt wh meter. Very cheap on amazon.com
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Richard230

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2013, 04:44:36 AM »

The Cycle Analyst is the on-board instrument to have.  It tells you lots of stuff, including how many amp hours you consumed during your ride.  It would be a lot more accurate than measuring the voltage of the battery pack and using that to estimate the available power left in the pack.  All you need to do is to figure out how to connect it to your bike's electronics.

For charging consumption from the wall, nothing beats the Kill-A-Watt meter for the money, as mentioned by iJustride.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

eyeinsky

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 04:59:14 AM »

Check out a kill-a-watt wh meter. Very cheap on amazon.com

I will check it out.

Thanks Jerry
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eyeinsky

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 05:01:25 AM »

The Cycle Analyst is the on-board instrument to have.  It tells you lots of stuff, including how many amp hours you consumed during your ride.  It would be a lot more accurate than measuring the voltage of the battery pack and using that to estimate the available power left in the pack.  All you need to do is to figure out how to connect it to your bike's electronics.

For charging consumption from the wall, nothing beats the Kill-A-Watt meter for the money, as mentioned by iJustride.

I heard of these. Do you have particular brand that you recommend?

Thanks Jerry
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eyeinsky

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2013, 05:23:28 AM »

Found It ;) $100+ with shunt does alot more that what i was looking for. Good option though  8)

http://ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 05:27:08 AM by eyeinsky »
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eyeinsky

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2013, 05:33:27 AM »

Check out a kill-a-watt wh meter. Very cheap on amazon.com

Not really what I'm looking for. This is a AC meter, this will not give me the amp/hour DC info I'm looking for

Thanks though

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eyeinsky

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2013, 05:48:28 AM »

Here's another option for the discharge values on the bike with remote shunt, no extra wire or power required because it good till 10 to 90 volts DC.

-it can measure Forward (Positive) and Reverse (Negative) current.
-Combines many functions in one,
-Dual display for Voltage (V)
-Current (A), Power (W)
-Ampere-hour (Ah),
-Working Hours (H), Charging Time, Discharging Time
-Battery capacity (%)
-Flexible On-line calibration function, calibrate Voltage and amps reading easily.
-Adopting modular design, collocate indicator lights on the panel for various working status.
-4 digits LED for Voltage, Power, and Working hours reading, 3 digits LED for Current and Ah reading.
-Lowe power consumption.
-It does NOT require power when powered between 10-90V.
-We can connect it by 2-wire(Power by Internal source), or 3-wire(Power by External source).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-120V-300A-Volt-Amp-Combo-Meter-Battery-Charge-Discharge-Indicator-With-Shunt/181136879829?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D155361547768619010%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D181181356069%26

 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 06:25:39 AM by eyeinsky »
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trikester

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2013, 09:16:01 AM »

I also use the Kill-A-Watt meter to measure the total kWh that it took to recharge after a ride, and watt load on the AC line. Available at Home Depot and other hardware suppliers for about $25.

Trikester
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Doctorbass

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2013, 11:42:42 AM »

I have used sucessfully the Cycle Analyst on my Ds 2011 and this brilliant made tool IS THE GADGET TO HAVE !!

I am presently trying to install it to my S 2012...

Not as easy!

There is no tach signal that can be read by the cycle analyst like i had on the optical tach  of agni motor pulley!.. The PMAC is AC motor and the sevcon dont have this signal... :(

I tried to use the PULSE signal on the zero speedometer but it seem to have alot of interference from the motor HF noise.... and.. or it is just  a digital binary signal or a kind of PWM signal..

I might have to install one of these wheel speed sensor with magnet...

unless someone have an idea?

Doc
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Zero Drag racing bike: 12.2s 1/4 mile and 7.3s 1/8 mile

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eyeinsky

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2013, 06:47:11 PM »

I have used sucessfully the Cycle Analyst on my Ds 2011 and this brilliant made tool IS THE GADGET TO HAVE !!

I am presently trying to install it to my S 2012...

Not as easy!

There is no tach signal that can be read by the cycle analyst like i had on the optical tach  of agni motor pulley!.. The PMAC is AC motor and the sevcon dont have this signal... :(

I tried to use the PULSE signal on the zero speedometer but it seem to have alot of interference from the motor HF noise.... and.. or it is just  a digital binary signal or a kind of PWM signal..

I might have to install one of these wheel speed sensor with magnet...

unless someone have an idea?

Doc


I was looking at the wiring on the bike and with the 3 phase motor it would have lots of RF. Try a shielded wire that usually works or a least seperat the wires from the main power wires.

Jerry
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eyeinsky

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2013, 07:36:16 PM »

Hey Doc

One question: The white wire is the trigger wire for the Delta Q correct? Therefore I should keep that connected and I can charge through the main power wires before the main contractor. I plan to use one shunt for both charge and discharge indication and has no need for external power source, good for 90 volts. This unit will handle both options should be all I need for now, giving me charge an discharge ah reading.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181136879829?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Cheers Jerry

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Doctorbass

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2013, 09:42:16 AM »

Hey Doc

One question: The white wire is the trigger wire for the Delta Q correct? Therefore I should keep that connected and I can charge through the main power wires before the main contractor. I plan to use one shunt for both charge and discharge indication and has no need for external power source, good for 90 volts. This unit will handle both options should be all I need for now, giving me charge an discharge ah reading.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181136879829?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Cheers Jerry

Yes the white wire when connected to the black negative will enable the charge. but the main contactor also protect the battery from overdisharge and the BMS  have to control the charging process to not overcahrge any cell bank ( HVC)

usually on the zero battery there is a wire that is made to connect to that white wire. i think it is called BMS enable. This wire activate the BMS when the cahrging process is active or when the motorcycle is powered ON.

there is  two wireds that control the battery activation: BMS enable and throttle enable. the throttle enable IS the signal that allow or not the throttle to work.. and it is controlled by the MBB wich receive the enabling command from the BMS that watch the cellsl voltage.

Doc

in other words if you charge BEFORE the contactor you might overcharge the higher cells bank. unless you use treh white wire to trigger the charger output ON or OFF.
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eyeinsky

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2013, 04:40:10 AM »

Hey Doc

One question: The white wire is the trigger wire for the Delta Q correct? Therefore I should keep that connected and I can charge through the main power wires before the main contractor. I plan to use one shunt for both charge and discharge indication and has no need for external power source, good for 90 volts. This unit will handle both options should be all I need for now, giving me charge an discharge ah reading.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181136879829?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Cheers Jerry

Yes the white wire when connected to the black negative will enable the charge. but the main contactor also protect the battery from overdisharge and the BMS  have to control the charging process to not overcahrge any cell bank ( HVC)

usually on the zero battery there is a wire that is made to connect to that white wire. i think it is called BMS enable. This wire activate the BMS when the cahrging process is active or when the motorcycle is powered ON.

there is  two wireds that control the battery activation: BMS enable and throttle enable. the throttle enable IS the signal that allow or not the throttle to work.. and it is controlled by the MBB wich receive the enabling command from the BMS that watch the cellsl voltage.

Doc

in other words if you charge BEFORE the contactor you might overcharge the higher cells bank. unless you use treh white wire to trigger the charger output ON or OFF.

Thanks Doc

Make scene, to me but still fussy on this, can I charge through the main batt connect still utilizing white wire connected to the Delta Q. I'd  rather use power wire were my shunt will attach to main power relay. This would give me the ah in and out of the battery to my battery monitor system.

Jerry
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Doctorbass

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Re: Battery amp\hour monitoring
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2013, 05:36:53 AM »

Yeah, The Ah in and out is really usefull !

If the charge efficiency of the battery is good enough then once the battery Ah reading indicate near 0Ah your battery is full  ;)

there is a little error as well but it give you a real great idea!

Installing the shunt where the power relay is is really good too because it also count the Ah consummed by all electrical system, not only the controller


Doc
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