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Author Topic: Any regrets or buyers remorse?  (Read 4802 times)

Mr. Fisherman

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Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« on: June 30, 2013, 04:24:40 PM »

These bikes are very expensive and have limited use.
Anyone wish they hadn't bought or waited until they were cheaper?

I am intrigued but money is tight and it will take a long time to recoup the investment. It is too soon to tell what resale will be like and as a result my preferred lending institution  will  not loan on them.

Thoughts?
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vchampain

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2013, 04:55:34 PM »

Absolutely no regret. Yes the price is a bit high but I'm saving 1000€/year in oil & insurance (very cheap in France, because this kind of bike selects cautious drivers), and a premium urban scooter cost 12000 € - and has 30% less torque, vibrations & looks ugly.

I owned a XU for one year before, and my only regret was not buying it sooner. There were small fixes, but the reseller very kindly fixed everything without any question. Llife is short, bike is great and I prefer putting my money in a great, silent & green bike than other available options.
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craigq

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 05:52:14 PM »

I have a 2012, can I answer?

In 2012 I had no regret buying my 2012 XU. Bike worked great, pretty much reached the advertised range when taking into consideration the actual distances involved in each section of the UDDS testing etc. It was nice not having to do one or two oil changes, and no filling of gas etc.

Different story this year, I should've bought a gas-powered bike that I can troubleshoot/diagnose/fix myself through readily available parts distributors/supply chain. My XU has been non-functional for the 2013 riding season. First ride attempt resulted in a 2-4 error code that Zero diagnosed as a failed BMS board. They shipped out a replacement, but interface cables were on back order. This started on/around 8 April via test ride and an email to Zero, then a conversation over the phone on 12 April. Zero received the interface cables sometime last week, and shipped one out to the dealership. The dealer is supposed to call when they receive the cable, then I can bring in the power pack for the BMS replacement.

I've been searching kijiji/bike trader for a used gas bike, might buy one next week to at least get some riding in for this season...


EDIT: Furthermore, I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps my XU's BMS board should've been involved in the recall last year but I was never notified? My VIN is 00015, the recall affects 2012 XU's from 13-Feb to 5-Apr, and in the recall documentation XU 00034 was involved in the recall. I just don't know the exact date of manufacture for my bike. It doesn't really matter, as the BMS has to be replaced either way...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 06:02:14 PM by craigq »
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dkw12002

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 07:47:57 PM »

Definitely not for the next almost two years while the bike is under warranty. I will re-eval it at that time to see how the major components are holding up and also to see what else Zero and others have to offer. After my 2011 S died (brushes exploded), I was glad to get out of it due to the motor problem which if it were off-warranty would be expensive and maybe leave me stranded, along with the lower-than-expected range, but then the 2013 came alone with major improvements...many improvements in the 2012 too, but the 2013 is better. I also got a dealer maintenance contract with free tires, brakes, belts and adjustments, and a brake fluid yearly flush, so at this point, the Zero S is my favorite bike I have ever owned. The mileage tells the tale. I had the 2011S for 8 months and put 2400 miles on it. I've had the 2013 S for 3 weeks and just turned 2000 miles.  If it wasn't raining outside right now, I would be riding instead of typing. No regrets, but if I did, I would be onto another bike within a couple of days anyway. So many bikes, so little time. I don't think of the Zero as an investment you can ever break even on. They are too expensive to begin with for that especially if you compare say the S model to other commuter bikes like say a Ninja 300. I am willing to pay a premium price for the fun, convenience, uniqueness, light-weight and performance though. I am also in a very good location to own a Zero. The owner of AF1 lives a block away and his dealership is about 3 miles from my home, so when I have had troubles before with any of the 10 new bikes I've bought from him, I can either ride right in or he picks up my bike, fixes it an returns it to my home. My only regret is that I am out of room in my garage or I would get another bike....maybe an FX.
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Richard230

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 08:07:41 PM »

I have no regrets about buying my 2012 9kWh S.  I have been riding it for almost 18 months and I am closing in on 6,000 miles with no problems, other than a couple of throttle start glitches (solved by a new throttle) and an occasional cold-start problem that requires rebooting to get going (which seems to be going away lately).  I ride my Zero in addition to my other IC motorcycles, but it has been getting the most mileage this year.  So far the bike has needed no maintenance whatsoever and my monthly electric bill has only risen about $10.  I am very happy with the performance, utility and reliability of my Zero.  In fact I plan to ride it to Alice's Restaurant, 35 miles away, in a few minutes for breakfast with my motorcycle riding friends.   :)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

CliC

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2013, 10:36:18 PM »

2012 DS owner here, since April 2012. My opinions here are based on my personal observations with my bike and may or may not coincide with anyone else's.

Short answer: no regrets, but not sure if I'd do it again, and not sure what I'll do with the current bike once the warranty is up.

Long back story: I was intrigued when I first heard about Zero, and was convinced they were for real after my first test ride. Yet I couldn't justify the price without additional argument, which I arrived at (rationalized? lol) in gas savings over driving my truck, and reduced maintenance compared to an IC bike.

Several unforeseen things happened along the way, however. I changed jobs and can no longer commute on the Zero because it's too far (60 highway miles each way). And the bike has been in the shop 4 times for defective forks.

The first 3 times, I was carting it 200 miles each way to my dealer. Zero replaced the forks the third time. Because of all those trips, I've not achieved any net fuel savings yet.

When the new forks leaked, too, I looked around and found a new dealer much closer to me. This time, to their credit, Zero sent a new fork straight away. However, the wrong fork part was shipped, and it was damaged in shipment. So a second fork had to be sent (regular freight, not hot-shot). The bike ended up sitting in the shop about 3 weeks. I wasn't riding it but on weekends anyway, so the wait was no big deal for me. And it seems fine now. Time will tell.

While it's still under warranty, I'm not overly concerned about all this, especially now that I have a local dealer. Once it's out of warranty, though, I will have some decisions to make. Few of the dealers outside of Hollywood Electrics seem to be all that familiar with the electrics/electronics, though this may also be the case with some increasingly-complex IC bikes. And Zero seems unlikely to release documentation allowing owners to do their own work. While I've had no issues with the high-tech parts of the bike, I'm a little worried about this, and with longer-term support for a platform Zero has already made somewhat obsolete with the almost-all-new 2013 platform. Hopefully I'll have 9 more months or so to avoid worrying about this and just enjoy riding.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 10:37:51 PM by CliC »
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Bikes: 2012 Zero DS ZF9, 2000 Harley Road King (sold), 1985 Suzuki GN400 (sold)
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trikester

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 11:46:44 PM »

No regrets. I have a 2010 DS ZF6 a 2012 DS ZF6 and now a 2013 FX. Yes it's money out the door that I won't recover in my remaining lifetime but I have enjoyed each upgrade so much that I don't look back. It's water under the bridge.

I am a new adopter, as we are called, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to put out the money. If things were tighter I probably would have waited longer for the inevitable improvements before buying my first electric motorcycle. But, I'm also 78, so how long could I wait? I am retired, but if I was still commuting I would be doing it on a Zero, especially if I could plug it in at work.

Trikester
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vchampain

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2013, 11:58:13 PM »

Thumbs up for trikester !
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lolachampcar

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2013, 12:11:19 AM »

MY12 DS followed by a MY13 DS.  I loved the first bike and put over 5K miles before selling it for the MY13.  I do not regret buying either nor do I regret the hit I took for getting the MY13.  Zero just flat made a perfectly useable wonderful bike with the MY13 DS.

For reference, my BMW S1000RR still sits in the garage and NEVER gets ridden.
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Life is too short not to enjoy what you do each day.

vchampain

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2013, 12:21:47 AM »

Yes ! Same for my Honda 500 CBF. I sold it quickly after getting my first Zero !
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esbk.co

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2013, 12:39:21 AM »

These bikes are very expensive and have limited use.
Anyone wish they hadn't bought or waited until they were cheaper?

I am intrigued but money is tight and it will take a long time to recoup the investment. It is too soon to tell what resale will be like and as a result my preferred lending institution  will  not loan on them.

Thoughts?

Limited use?  Range is limited, yes, but how is use limited?  Just curious.
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kingcharles

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2013, 02:28:36 AM »

The most common reasons to get remorse are when the bike does not deliver as promised or when you encounter technical issues which are not solved properly.
The first reason can be translated to range the second to customer service.
I own a Vectrix and never reached the range promised, also there have been many technical issues with the bike. One of the issues is in the software which damages the battery cells. So after almost 4 years and my bike currently at the dealer for almost 4 weeks to get a simple fuse replaced! I am thinking if my next bike should be an EV again. My bike has almost 40.000 kilometres and its batteries are way below 80% capacity already.
I took the EV gamble in 2009 and was unlucky, I will never buy a Vectrix product again because of their terrible customer service and poor engineering quality.

If I want to keep riding an EV the only alternative for me in Europe right now is the Zero S/DS (the Brammo Enertia is too small for me)  and with all the glitches being reported on this forum I am beginning to doubt if I must take the gamble again.
I am riding a rental ICE bike until my Vectrix is fixed and second hand ICE bikes are quite cheap these days.

But: EV bikes ride so much better in the city and also my original reason to buy the Vectrix was to ride emission free in the city...
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spelunker

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Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2013, 06:14:29 AM »

I have no regrets. I got my 2013 S to commute 31 miles one way, mostly at highway speeds. Love, love, love it!  I've had three issues so far that the dealer fixed as quickly as they got their hands on the parts. I got the 11.4, so I got the most expensive bike Zero makes. At current local gas prices, I save about $150 per month. That's just for gas. The savings are more since I don't have to change oil (about $60 a pop a couple of times a year for my Goldwing).  The monthly gas savings makes my outflow for the monthly payment much less. I had more trouble getting insurance than I did getting a loan. The insurance company I had with my GW won't underwrite an electric bike. I guess they think its a toy.

I realize I am an early adopter of a new technology (motor design and somewhat the battery), so I sort of expected some minor trouble. None of them were deal-breakers.
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mehve

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2013, 12:16:36 PM »

No regrets.

I had purchased a 2012 S ZF9 for my daily commute last year in May, rode it daily until ice and snow made the roads unsafe. I didn't have any problems with it and went ahead and had the recall service done (brake-light, controller, BMS).  Unfortunately, I went to the IMS Seattle and sat on the 2013 S ZF11.4 (and the Brammo Empulse R) and my old Zero's days became numbered. I traded in my old for the new just this last March, and the longer range, the storage, the Bluetooth connectivity with the Zero App, plus the accessories (the first of which I bought was the Givi top box) has got me spending more time in the saddle than I ever have in the past.  Truth to tell, the battery lasts longer than I do.

I'm sure everyone have different reasons for purchasing. I see a "limited use" label tacked on to EV's... but what does that mean? If an EV is not going to meet your needs, just don't buy one.  I don't use my car for everything, yet I have one. We have a minivan too, for carting the kids around, and when I make a trip to the garden center or buying furniture. My Zero  can't (nor can any other 2-wheeler) do the job of the minivan, or the car. But what it does wonderfully is take me to and from work, let me do most of my errands, and even go out on a short recreational ride, all for about a penny a mile.

I've been lucky though. And the dealer in the area had been very helpful (Lynnwood Cycle Barn) -- which is awesome, since I'm an artist and not an electrical engineer or a tech-savvy person.

I hope this is helping allay any worries -- or help you decide one way or another. I'm finding that riding is pretty darned fun, and you should buy what you are comfortable with.

Best,
+m
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Mr. Fisherman

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Re: Any regrets or buyers remorse?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2013, 02:46:45 PM »

These bikes are very expensive and have limited use.
Anyone wish they hadn't bought or waited until they were cheaper?

I am intrigued but money is tight and it will take a long time to recoup the investment. It is too soon to tell what resale will be like and as a result my preferred lending institution  will  not loan on them.

Thoughts?

Limited use?  Range is limited, yes, but how is use limited?  Just curious.

Range mostly followed by weather I suppose. I live in Oregon and it rains a lot. I have been told it shouldn't be a problem but water and electricity do not mix, as the recall on the battery packs in the Older FX and SU testify to. It sounds like Zero is taking care of issues though.

It seems pretty expensive to add the fast charging options. There is a place on the coast that offers the fast charge and that could make trips to the coast and back feasable... and more may follow. That would open things up a bit.  Right now factoring in weather and anticipated use I am about $80 per month short for the first 5 years. Will the major components (controller and throttle assemply) last that long? 

For those who have traded up, how did the early modles hold their value towards resale or trade in?

I am at about $160 per month in savings and I may be able to charge at work which would also help offest. I want to but the months I am not riding it would be about a $150 hit the other way. Decisions, decisions.
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