Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BSDThw]

I have seen talks of using the size 6 in the 2013 models.

I couldn't see how the 2013 works up to now but have some experience with the 2012 and have done some thoughts what will happen if you try. I don't talk of can the motor sustain he current, is the belt able to withstand the force... I have no idea of it.

I see some serious problems with the new bluetooth!

I have to start with some basics of the Sevcon.
It has 3 tables inside to set the driveability profiles, its torque, neutral regen, braking regen, direction change regan... and all have rump (up and down) speeds and other parameter too.

The 3 profiles are named Baseline, Driveability 1 and Driveability 2.

Baseline is the setting that has the highest values you want in your system.

The two Driveability normally can only have lower values, if not they are limited by the Baseline profile.

Sevcon use at 2012 and I guess at 2013 the Baseline as SPOT-mode and Driveability 1 as ECO.
ECO has higher neutral- and brake-regen settings, therefore they do a reprogramming of the Sevcon on the fly!

The MBB send the password to the Sevcon read out the regen values and the ramp time. If it is different to the SPOT/ECO switch it will reprogamm the values STORED IN THE MBB and close the reprogramming. If the switch is conform to the setting it will leave it untouched.

I believe the bluetooth is done in the same way only the values in the MBB are settable now (why to reinvent the wheel). BUT you can't change the max/min limits there, so it will be exciting to find out what the bluetooth will do with your new settings if you try to replace the Sevcon by a Size 6!

The only way I see at the moment (having never seen the programming of a 2013 nor the schematic) you can use a special software setting inside the Sevcon so it will not limit the Driveability 1 / 2 settings, than if you lucky and they still use Baseline and Driveability 1 you can use the Driveablity 1 input port and change it to Driveability 2 (it can be done in the Sevcon setting) now you can tune your settings in Driveability 2 without interference by the MBB; but SPORT mode will be as it was.

To do the hard way and hack the MBB to get control of the Values would be Fu... dangerous I would never put my life on such a bike . Maybe Harlan as a premium dealer will get save updates for a “tuning kit”. I am curious to see when he will come up with something like this but maybe the motor will not be able to hold and it will always be a dream?

If someone has more knowledge of it or ideas, questions I would really like to discuss it.

BTW it will not only be a topic with the Size 6 even if you would like to change something in the Size 4 it will maybe interfere. So does anyone know what values the bluetooth really change at the 2013 model. 

[BSDThw]

I just return from Harlans Facebook side, I am pretty sure to see a size 6

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=615810081763029&set=p.615810081763029&type=1&theater

Will be nice how this beast work, and I guess it will be tested really good/hard!

Thumbs up! for Jeremiah Johnson and Harlan.

 

[Doctorbass]

And then the SR 2014 was born

Really interesting sumarry Thomas!

I still wonder if there is some real tuning or racing setting that they made for the race and that they could share.. this would be great  when the 2012 will be  out of warranty!

Doc

[Justin Andrews]

I see your not the only person who is thinking of fitting a Size 6 to their 2012 when the warrenty runs out then?
My warrenty runs out around my next birthday, I suspect a size 6 controller upgrade would make an excellent present to myself...

[benswing]

Several of us run Size 6 controllers and I think we all got them from Harlan.  Terry and I have 2012 Zero S ZF 9 with a size 6 (they ride almost like a 2013.  If you are considering this, do it!  No regrets.)

Harlan made a 2013 with a size 6, called Big Blue and all the racing guys run 2013's with a size 6.  That is fundamentally what the 2014 SR is, except they tweaked the motor to handle the temperature better (I believe). 

[Justin Andrews]

Yep, as the controller would need programming for the bike, then getting it from Harlen is only sensible.
I'd really NOT want to buy a stock controller from Sevcon, then try and program it myself, that could be... slightly riskly.

[frodus]

Someone can save their configuration file via the DVT software and send it to you.... if they're willing.

[benswing]

From what I recall in a conversation with Harlan, each controller needs to be matched to your specific motor.  He gave me the impression that there isn't a one-size-fits-all solution and something had to be uniquely configured.

[frodus]

Yes, true, but if someone is using them on a Motenergy motor, files are out there for them.

[BSDThw]

Personally I think Harlan has put a lot of work to make a good setup for the 2012 Motor and an excellent mechanic work.
Why should he give this work for free?
He is making his income with this - not only fun like most of us.

Especially the mechanic you need to make a size6 fit to your 2012 and to get a heatsink for less money the Programming tools + SW ...

It will work if you built it for your self - if you have the balls to take the risk.

We have a greet Forum and I really like to get help or to help someone, but if we would make a how-to built a Size6 project and even more mean to share Harlans work for free I think it would be impudent.

Don't forget how helpful Harlan always is!

[Justin Andrews]

I agree entirely BSDThw.
Harlen is a good guy, and very helpful indeed, even to people the other side of the planet from him!

[evdjerome]

What benefits do a Size 6 controller add to a stock 2012 DS ZF9?
Will it increase range?  Acceleration?

And about how much would it cost to have Harlan program a Size 6 for my bike and ship it to me?
And what mechanical work would be required to install the Size 6?  Would the install be expensive?

Thanks!

[Justin Andrews]

It seriously ups the acceleration, roughly around 50%
It does'nt do much to the range, although because you can gun the throttle more, then you can use the battery up quicker.

There are anecdotal reports that 2012's with the size 6 are less glitchy than stock bikes, but don't quote me on that.

[frodus]

I'm not saying not to buy from him. He's good with prices and support.

Its a configuration file... Just like in Curtis controllers... With little or no file protection. I share my HPEVS configuration files as needed since it's unlikely that someone could use without an HPEVS motor. With Sevcon.... There aren't many places to get them anyway... So harlan is likely going to be the source for them.

I've already seen Sevcon files shared.... Unfortunately. Sevcon and Curtis should have done a better encryption job.

Maybe Harlan can come up with a do not distribute clause for people to sign if it's configuration he's done himself.

[Doctorbass]

Full Size 6 conversion cost about 2000$ if Harlan  keep your older size 4 in trade, otherwise it's 2500$ ( from the lastest info i have)

It include the longer heatsink, mounting bracket ( i think) and the bigger size wirring and programming.

Programming mean taking your old configuration file with the DVT software and programming it to the new size 6. Your new size 6 also need a calibration wich can be acheived with the MBB or the DVT software. This calibration set the max measured voltage sensed from the sin/cos encoder.

In other words unless your local dealer is famillar with the Disgnostic tool kit for the MBB and Sevcon and is able to extract your config file with the DVT, you will need to send your motor to Harlan and he will make that job.

He is the best person to acheive that.

Doc