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[redge]

Every serious manufacturer of motorcycles, and a number of small manufacturers, are on a list that makes it possible for an American to buy one of their motorcycles in Canada, new or used, or for a Canadian to buy one of their motorcycles, new or used, in the US.

Here is the Canadian list: http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/safevehicles/importation/usa/vafus/list2/Section8_0.htm

Zero is not on the list. What this means is that it is impossible for a Canadian to buy a Zero motorcycle, even used, in the US, and the equivalent US list means that the same is true vice versa.

Last week, as a Canadian who has business interests in New York and who consequently spends many months a year there, I offered to buy a new Zero XU in a cash transaction, with the intention of taking the bike across the border to Canada, where I spend my summers, and plating it there. I soon learned that Zero's failure to put it itself on the import list makes this impossible.

A Zero employee has now apparently told my preferred dealer that I have to buy the bike in Canada, because if I buy it in the US the US border authority, when I try to take the bike to Canada, may stop me because the US government may think that I am trying to buy a grey market product for resale at a profit in Canada.

Where do I start?

The US and Canadian border authorities care about whether motorcycles meet the safety and emission standards of the two countries. They don't care about grey market transactions, which matter when a manufacturer sells a product in country A at a cheaper price than in country B. This is the manufacturer's problem, not a government problem, and in this case is irrelevant because Zero bikes sell at the same price in Canada and the US.

Meanwhile, I can buy a Triumph, Harley Davidson, Yamaha, Honda, Moto Guzzi, Suzuki, KTM,  etc, etc in either country and import it to the other country without difficulty.

The real question is why I can't do the same with a Zero?

There are two possibilities.

One is that Zero hasn't done the basic paperwork.

The other is that Zero has decided to prevent Canadians and Americans from buying its bikes in the other country, including used bikes. So if you own a Zero in Buffalo, and decide to sell it, you can't sell it to someone in Toronto.

Neither my dealer nor I have been able to get an answer from Zero to this simple question.

The result, until Zero coughs up an answer, is that someone who is prepared to buy one of its bikes, in cash, tomorrow, won't. Why? Because I spend most of the year in New York, and my summers in a town in Canada that is 650 miles, plus a six hour ferry trip on the North Atlantic, from the nearest Zero Canadian dealer. So I guess that Zero, unlike every other significant manufacturer of motorcycles, just doesn't want my business.

P.S. There is an exception to this, which is that BMW corporate dealers in the US, even though BMW bikes are on the import list, will sell new BMW bikes only to people who have a US driver's licence, as part of a corporate policy of territorial protection, but they will sell used bikes. I assume that BMW Canada corporate dealers take the same position.

[Marshm]

I didn't know about such a list.  Maybe Zero didn't either.  Government regulating safety and emissions is just a very small thing.  The main thing they want is your money.  If you keep that in mind you can understand government. So maybe Canada wants you to buy bikes in Canada because they collect taxes on the sale and it has nothing to do with Zero at all.

It is still a free country down here, however, less so every year.  I am a USA citizen, if I buy a bike in another state, I won't be able to license it in my state until I pay the local state sales tax.  The government wants your money.  Maybe Canada has a similar rule, if you paid all the taxes as if you bought in Canada maybe you could find a DMV to lisense it. 

You can still buy one in the USA and ride it across the border and see if they questioned it.  Or you could become the first electric motorcycle smuggler and become popular and make a name for yourself.  Then you could come to this country and get elected president and make up whatever stupid laws you want. 

[redge]

I didn't know about such a list.  Maybe Zero didn't either.  Government regulating safety and emissions is just a very small thing.  The main thing they want is your money.  If you keep that in mind you can understand government. So maybe Canada wants you to buy bikes in Canada because they collect taxes on the sale and it has nothing to do with Zero at all.

It is still a free country down here, however, less so every year.  I am a USA citizen, if I buy a bike in another state, I won't be able to license it in my state until I pay the local state sales tax.  The government wants your money.  Maybe Canada has a similar rule, if you paid all the taxes as if you bought in Canada maybe you could find a DMV to lisense it. 

No, this has nothing to do with taxes.

If I buy a Triumph in NY, the sale is tax free but I will pay the local tax when I register the bike in Canada.

Similarly, if you buy a Zero in New York but register it in Connecticut, where there is by the way no Zero dealer, you will not pay NY tax, but you will pay Connecticut tax.

This is a very simple question.

Has Zero failed to put itself on the Canada/US import list, which every significant motorcycle manufacturer is on, due to an oversight or deliberately for dealer protection reasons? If the former, when does it intend to get on the list?

As indicated earlier, as matters currently stand, an owner of a Zero bike in Buffalo can't sell it to someone in Toronto, which is stunning - it is not the case with any motorcycle made by any other significant manufacturer. Does Zero intend this and, if not, when will it be fixed?

[redge]

Due to the post about taxes that takes this as off-track as the zero employee's apparent bizarre attempt to explain this situation in terms of grey market, I want to make this very simple.

For the last several days, I've been trying without success to get a yes or no answer to a question that Zero should have no difficulty in answering:

Does Zero intend to put itself on the Canada/US import list and, if so, when?

Every other significant manufacturer of motorcycles is on the list. So it's not like this is an arcane question. I just want to know the answer, because it will determine whether I buy a Zero motorcycle, and will also determine whether owners of Zero motorcycles can sell them between the two countries, as they can with every other well-known motorcycle.

I just want to know if it is going to be on the same list that Harley Davidson, Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, Triumph, Suzuki. Yamaha, Honda, KTM, BMW, Piaggio, Vespa, etc are already on, or not..

I've tried, through a Zero dealer from whom I'm prepared to buy an XU in cash, to get an answer, but have been unable to do so, despite the fact that the dealer put the question to his
Zero rep.

So now I'm asking here.

It's not a hard question.

[Doctorbass]

I exactly know your story many!

I had the same problem a year ago when Luke had a great deal for me in the US .

I took all info in regard to be able to import that zero ds 2011 but when i took a look to the RIV ( Registred Veicule Import) List i also discovered that ZERO was not on that LIST !!!!


I know really good Kent who was the Canadian President of Zero Motorcyle Canada but he said that ONly the dealer can import these zero in Canada with special agreement with Transport Canada.

Here is the my story about hat in feb 2012: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=37094&p=543024&hilit=register+of+import+vehicule#p543024

I finally found one in Canada.. that solved my problem....

Doc

[redge]

I exactly know your story many!

I had the same problem a year ago when Luke had a great deal for me in the US .

I took all info in regard to be able to import that zero ds 2011 but when i took a look to the RIV ( Registred Veicule Import) List i also discovered that ZERO was not on that LIST !!!!


I know really good Kent who was the Canadian President of Zero Motorcyle Canada but he said that ONly the dealer can import these zero in Canada with special agreement with Transport Canada.

Here is the my story about hat in feb 2012: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=37094&p=543024&hilit=register+of+import+vehicule#p543024

I finally found one in Canada.. that solved my problem....

Doc

If Zero's Canadian rep told you that, it sounds very much like Zero has made a deliberate decision to prevent Canadians and Americans from buying Zero motorcycles, including from owners of Zero motorcycles who want to sell their bikes, across the border.

No significant manufacturer of conventional motorcycles is doing this.

It would be very helpful if Zero would answer this simple question: Why isn't Zero on the import list and when, if at all, does it intend to get on it?

[Richard230]

I didn't notice Brammo on that list.  Perhaps it is an electric motorcycle manufacturer thing to encourage shops to sign up to become dealers of a make that will sell very few vehicles, compared with the established major brands.  My guess is that is the only way both Zero and Brammo can get Canadian dealers to take on their makes, which are likely to sell only a relatively few units a year.  They want to prevent anyone from going to the U.S. and buying a bike there, thereby potentially increasing sales for the retail establishments.

[redge]

I didn't notice Brammo on that list.  Perhaps it is an electric motorcycle manufacturer thing to encourage shops to sign up to become dealers of a make that will sell very few vehicles, compared with the established major brands.  My guess is that is the only way both Zero and Brammo can get Canadian dealers to take on their makes, which are likely to sell only a relatively few units a year.  They want to prevent anyone from going to the U.S. and buying a bike there, thereby potentially increasing sales for the retail establishments.

Brammo has very few dealers in the US and none in Canada. There are rumours that Brammo is seeking safety approval, etc for its bikes in Canada, but they are just that, rumours. Note that one of the manufacturers on the import list is a maker of electric scooters.

That aside, your analysis is quite possible, although I just spoke with a Canadian dealer and it was news, and surprising, to them that Zero is not on the import list.

Meanwhile, one impact of this is that Zero owners can't sell their bikes cross-border. If you are a Zero owner in Buffalo, it is probably not welcome news to be told that you can't sell your bike in Toronto because the company whose expensive bike you bought doesn't feel like letting you. You certainly don't have that problem if you own a conventional motorcycle.

It would be very nice if Zero would simply say what its position is and whether it is or is not going to put itself on the import list. I've been trying to get an answer to this question for the better part of a week, so far without success.