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Author Topic: CHAdeMO in the US  (Read 1486 times)

Ittindi

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CHAdeMO in the US
« on: March 14, 2013, 05:35:44 AM »

I'm just looking for insight on this idea, so brainstorm with me.  What would be the implications and/or complications of installing CHAdeMO stations along the interstate?  My thinking is that if 2012 saw such an explosion in EV heavy states, why not improve our electric infrastructure with naturally powered CHAdeMO stations?
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spelunker

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CHAdeMO in the US
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 07:41:13 AM »

If they're not in a town, the cost of transmission lines would be pretty astronomical.
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Ittindi

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Re: CHAdeMO in the US
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 07:59:02 AM »

Hense, "naturally powered."  I figure, at this stage, how many EV vehicles are really going to be going through an interstate?  Hopefully enough to show the benefits of a system like this, but truthfully not too many.  If Zeros have up to a 10 kWh battery, and a Tesla S has up to an 85 kWh, how much would an off-grid station need to be able to give each day?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 11:26:30 AM by Ittindi »
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spelunker

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CHAdeMO in the US
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 10:58:42 PM »

I would be interested to see how much a charging station that has wind/solar to charge storage batteries would cost. It seems that with today's technology it wouldn't be too terrible.
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CliC

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Re: CHAdeMO in the US
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 03:43:57 AM »

I think we will get an idea when Tesla gets farther into its Supercharger build out. The power requirements look similar.

I'm thinking it's going to be pricey even if the stations are self-contained, but I haven't done the math to know for sure.
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esbk.co

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Re: CHAdeMO in the US
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 10:33:48 AM »

The smaller 25kW CHAdeMO station would require a smaller power draw and be fine for Leafs and Zeros.  But a grid tied pack with solar and/or wind as it's primary source of recharge would be awesome.  Maybe you could build it out of used car batteries?  What about the CHAdeMO/J1771 DC combo charger, and regular J1772 AC 2 chargers as well?
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WindRider

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Re: CHAdeMO in the US
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 10:49:29 PM »

I would be interested to see how much a charging station that has wind/solar to charge storage batteries would cost. It seems that with today's technology it wouldn't be too terrible.

It would be very terrible.

CHadeMO systems dump very large amounts of energy into the vehicle batteries in a short amount of time.   Solar and wind systems do not deliver large peak currents in short amounts of time.   What would happen if multiple vehicles arrive expecting an charge and the wind is not blowing and the sun not shining?

You could engineer a semi green CHadeMO recharging station that is grid tied along the lines of replacing the energy that goes into the vehicles over time but delivering the actual peak currents of a charging station with solar or Wind will take a LOT of money and real estate.   Don't even think about storing the solar or wind energy in batteries to deliver the peak load as that would be even more expensive.

To give you an idea of what it takes to deliver solar power we use solar power in my company to power radio communication equipment at remote locaitons that are off grid.   We use 180Watts of solar power to charge 4 large deep cycle batteries to supply a meager 10-15 Watts of radio load.   It costs about $2000 to build one of these sites power systems to supply only 15W or continuous power.   That works well because or power load is steady and minor.

If you want to charge vehicles with quick charge stations you need to be grid tied.   A Zero S with dual chargers draws 2KW, a Tesla Roadster draws around 17KW.   So let's say you were charging 2 Zeros and 2 Teslas at once, you would need to deliver around 40KW so add some overhead and shoot for delivering 50KW of power.    That would require somewhere around 4 acres of solar panels and if it is not grid tied all of that power is going to waste until someone comes to charge.   A rough estimate of cost for this would be around $200K for panels alone and add the cost of real eastate, permits, taxes, installation, hardware and you are looking about $1M.

It would make no economic sense to build off grid solar or wind recharging stations for CHadeMO recharging.   Grid tie is the way to go.
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Ittindi

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Re: CHAdeMO in the US
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2013, 10:31:36 AM »

Yet, in an area with no grid, there's not much choice, is there?  The fact that you're using a single 180W solar panel rather defeats your point; if your company were to use a larger array, it wouldn't take so long.  As well, 180W in one panel is 70W less efficient than the technology currently available.  Also, I don't see the point in neglecting batteries as a power dump, considering that's the only way the system would be useful at night.  The battery bay for such a project would be less expensive than the rest of the kit.  As well, with proper positioning and stacking, a ~6.4 kW solar array can be installed into the area of four 2x2 parking spaces.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 10:54:07 AM by Ittindi »
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WindRider

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Re: CHAdeMO in the US
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2013, 10:54:59 AM »

I don't think it makes sense to build CHadeMO off grid.   If you are going to make enough power to supply quick charging you may as well send it to the grid when not in use.

If you had to build off grid charging it would be a lot less costly to build slow charge stations and your original post said just off the Interstate.   Most anywhere just off the interstate in the US has close access to grid power.
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2008 Yamaha WR250R 
Past E Bikes:  2010 Zero XU, 2012 Zero DS9, 2013 FX5.7
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