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Author Topic: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero  (Read 3152 times)

keperkey

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Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« on: February 16, 2013, 02:59:03 AM »

Any feedback on prior experience of negotiating the purchase of a new Zero?  Are most being sold at list?  Any chance of getting a discount?  How much dealer profit is there at list?
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Tudor

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 06:22:52 AM »

Oh, I thought it was regarding negotiating/convincing ones partner, not the dealer   :-X
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firepower

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 08:50:05 AM »

lol, that's a funny reply.
 
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lolachampcar

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 11:06:56 PM »

I learned a hard lesson when I bought my 2012 Zero 9DS.

The dealer I was working with told me the bikes were in high demand, were commanding full list and would have to be ordered.  Well, part of that turned out to be true.  My bike did need to be ordered.  In fact, the dealer had one on order so I just took that one coming in.  There were none on the showroom floor (apart from the demo) because the dealer did not want to stock them, not because they were not readily available.  To give the dealer credit, they had generated interest in the bike and did have two on order to stock should they not pre-sell (as mine did).  I believed the dealer and paid full list.  Do me once, shame on you.  Do me twice and shame on me.

Fast forward a year.  I want the new DS and have my 2012 up for sale.  Zero has made significant gains and announced the 2013 model half way through (roughly) 2012.  Customers decision process is frozen and existing dealers now have 2012 stock that is not moving.  The 2012 stock is discounted and thus the value of my 2012 plummets.  I do sell my 2012 at a $1 per mile in depreciation.  I knew what I was getting into, made the decision to get the 2013 and am comfortable with my decision.  I also LEARNED from the process.

There was little to no demand for my 2012 9DS.  Zero is new to managing model transition and their channels.  Many of the dealers are new which causes confusion and leaves opportunity for buyers.  Zero made no provisions for customer loyalty (think $5K Ford credit for replacing your Ford with another Ford) while they helped their dealers with the $2500 credit for any ICE on trade for a 2012 Zero.

Combining the above and I know there will  be initial demand for the first few 2013 bikes.  Once the first units are delivered, we will go back to the normal demand for a $16K electric motorcycle sitting next to a $14K liter class sport bike at your average dealer, that is to say, darn near zero.  I believe there is significant opportunity to shop around and I would strongly encourage you to get quotations from several dealers.  I do not personally believe in playing dealers against each other.  I tried it a few times when I was younger and came away feeling slimy.  It is not to say that it does not work; it is just not for me.  I prefer to ask everyone once for their price and then make a decision based on their first answer.

Most manufacturers will try to limit the geographical area their dealers sell in.  If successful, the dealers can then demand full list plus every fricken fee in the world they can tag on leaving the customer with little to no option.  I do not think Zero is there yet and even this approach will break down with a little effort from the customer.  Do your homework.....  The demand is not anywhere near enough to maintain list price not to mention list price plus hundreds in extra fees.  A little effort will go a very long way.  If you start feeling any remorse, just remember what the residual value of the bike will be and you will feel a lot better about reducing the initial cost to acquire it.
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keperkey

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 11:40:46 PM »

Thanks Lolachampcar for the well thought out reply.
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Richard230

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 05:08:21 AM »

I would argue that the 2012 Zero is still a pretty good bike, especially for commuting and urban and suburban travel.  Yesterday I rode the 80-mile round trip to my BMW dealer, about 1/4 of the distance at freeway speeds (sticking to the limit) and still had two "bars" on the gauge remaining when I returned home (it was actually 4 bars, but I recovered two bars at my dealer while I was having coffee and donuts and answering questions about my bike).  While the 2013 bikes will be more powerful, can carry two people, have better brakes and a slightly larger chassis, the 2012 bikes still work well and have about the same range - plus all of the early-adopter bugs seem to have been excised.  If you don't need the latest and greatest thing, I think buying a new 2012 model at a substantial discount, or a used 2012 bike at a much greater discount, could be a smart thing to do.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

lolachampcar

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 06:41:50 AM »

Richard230,

I could not agree more.  I absolutely loved my 12 9DS and have spoken to its new owner who shares my opinion.  I put 7K miles on the bike in seven months.  I have never put 7K miles on any bike before and I've owned a lot of them, some for five years or more.

My point is that, apart from dedicated early adopters or silly people like me that just plain want that new one, the sale price for my 2012 is the real value of the product in the secondary market which, by association, establishes the real retail number.  It is not the value of all the parts and effort but the utility value of the bike to a more normal bike buyer.  This is only my opinion based on my experience.  If I am correct, then Zero dealers will be willing to drop below list once the pent up demand is met.  Again, it is only my opinion and really only worth what you pay for it :)
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Richard230

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 07:56:53 AM »

Frankly, I have no idea what Zero dealers might do when the market for the 2013 models becomes satisfied.  My guess is that will depend upon what sort of "kickback" Zero provides to their dealers once the 2014 models arrive.  I believe that the new bikes will sell at list prices at least until the 2014 line is announced.  That seems to be the way of the world when it comes to electronic gadgets.

In my case, I am using my Zero as a substitute for my car, as long as I do not have to carry a passenger (which my insurance doesn't cover in any case) and to replace my motorcycles for shorter trips.  I have no illusions about this being any sort of smart economic decision, though. I am pretty cheap about a lot of things, but when it comes to motorcycles that is where I blow my money without too many regrets.  I don't gamble, drink, or have any other vices - just buying motorcycles.  And electric motorcycles are what I am finding exciting and enjoyable in my old age.   ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

WindRider

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 08:14:28 AM »

I am not certain, but I think now that Zero has their own motor design and a solid true motorcycle platform, the future will hold fewer  complete new models and more refinements, range and power enhancements, quicker charging options, and subtle tweaks.

Hopefully, this will mean that riders who buy 2013 and up will be able to upgrade to new options rather than replace/trade the whole bike.   This would provide long term value for Zero customers.

In the meantime, my guess would be that sales of Zeros will be driven by pump prices for gas.  If gas prices go to $6/gal then people will flock to Zeros.   If it is $3/gallon then they will be hard to find new customers.   Most people don't want to take a risk on something that they don't understand so they will only change from what they know when something forces them to look at alternatives and most people are driven by financial motivations.

For my 2 cents the Zero motorcycles since 2012 have all offered exceptional value.   Especially compared to a $20K Chrome plated paint shaker cruiser with 1936 motorcycle technology but that is just my 2 cents.


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trikester

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 08:19:56 AM »

Quote
And electric motorcycles are what I am finding exciting and enjoyable in my old age.   ;)

Yes! I wil turn 78 next month and I've become so spoiled by electric motorcycles that I'm going to convert my home-built ICE trike to electric drive. I was poking around the SoCal desert today on my Zero 2012 DS and loving it. My 2013 FX will probably be here this week so this may have been my last ride on the DS. Bring it on!

Trikester
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lolachampcar

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 08:45:59 AM »

trikester living the dream.  Gives me hope.
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manlytom

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 03:07:07 AM »

I am not certain, but I think now that Zero has their own motor design and a solid true motorcycle platform, the future will hold fewer  complete new models and more refinements, range and power enhancements, quicker charging options, and subtle tweaks.

Hopefully, this will mean that riders who buy 2013 and up will be able to upgrade to new options rather than replace/trade the whole bike.   This would provide long term value for Zero customers.

In the meantime, my guess would be that sales of Zeros will be driven by pump prices for gas.  If gas prices go to $6/gal then people will flock to Zeros.   If it is $3/gallon then they will be hard to find new customers.   Most people don't want to take a risk on something that they don't understand so they will only change from what they know when something forces them to look at alternatives and most people are driven by financial motivations.

For my 2 cents the Zero motorcycles since 2012 have all offered exceptional value.   Especially compared to a $20K Chrome plated paint shaker cruiser with 1936 motorcycle technology but that is just my 2 cents.

Upgrading. Always a challenge  cost vs benefits even if upgrades are available. Guess we see an "upgrading" market like modifying your Harley after u bought it. Like Terry or DocBass getting impressive results out of older models.
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Tom
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Tudor

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 03:23:29 PM »

This helps when negotiating with partner, not a good idea when negotiating with a dealer thou...
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BSDThw

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 11:16:34 PM »

The Swedes don't trust the € any longer?  ;D
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Air Drag Sucks - 2012 Zero DS ZF9 - 2013 Zero FX ZF5.7

Tudor

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Re: Negotiating the Purchase of a new Zero
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2013, 04:07:49 PM »

The Swedes don't trust the € any longer?  ;D

Hehe nah, France, Italy, Spain, Greece... and not the ever printing $ either - we have the good ol' Swedish Krona, though.
 ;D Better be hoarding before Q2, i sense a coming high rise in gold/silver.. making a good profit so I can afford a Zero in may/june ;)

fool-proof, no?  ;)
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