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[Doctorbass]

Does anybody ever tried to bypass the zero main brain computer that is limiting the full action of the throttle from 0-30 ?

Doc

[Doctorbass]

Ok so i decided to investigate on the connections of the throttle and the controller.

There is two wires that gors direct from the magura throttle to the controller. They are White and White/blue.

The reisstance on standby is 27 ohms and is 5061ohm at 100% throttle.

So the brain box of the zero is not having any effect on the throttle since the throttle goes  directly connected to the controller.

Now.. i'm more confused... so how the controller is limited in power from 0 to 30 ?... The controller is the only thing that have an active effect on it and it is only controlled by the throttle signal...

Unless the 1/2 speed reverse could have an effect?.. is it only half speed during reverse?.. or can be haldf speed  and half speed in reverse?

it cold be the half speed input pin that is activated when the speedo detect speed between 0-30.. ?

I found a great encouraging comment on another forum saying that when the half speed in reverse is desactivated, the forward speed seem better!.. i might try it.

".I can now go in reverse at full speed. On top of that, the forward speed is alot faster as well; I wonder why that is, but I like it. Anyone know if there are any potential issues to not using the half speed reverse switch(double microswitch)?"

The stock setting on the controller from zero have the Half Speed in Reverse option enabled... but there is No connection on it... so i wonder if it could be to limit the max speed! ?

Doc

[Lipo423]

Doc,
I do not understand very well your explanation. Could you describe-elaborate the way you got better 0-30 acceleration?

[trikester]

You have a reverse on your ZERO ? What model?

[Electric Cowboy]

If you want to change that, then you have 2 options,

One is a custom throttle curve IN the controller, NOT bypassing it for 2012 and for 2011 tweaking on the ECU & or adding a better throttle curve to the controller again not bypassing the ECU or controller.

Two is to change the front sprocket size. And omg does this work well! Harlan from hollywood electrics did this on a 2010 Cafe Racer ... I was riding the cafe racer, and harlan was riding a 2012 XU... I thought harlan was just being a grandma on the throttle, but as it turned out, that's just how hard the modified sprocket 2010 blows away the stock 2012 Zero XU off the line upto the new top speed of around 65 mph.

[protomech]

The XU is not very quick - I would guess around 15 hp to the rear wheel. The 2010 cafe racer .. based on an S right? should be quite a bit faster.

[Electric Cowboy]

Yep, based on 2010 S. You think the 2010 S stock was about the same as or faster off the line than a 2012 XU?

[Doctorbass]

If you want to change that, then you have 2 options,

One is a custom throttle curve IN the controller, NOT bypassing it for 2012 and for 2011 tweaking on the ECU & or adding a better throttle curve to the controller again not bypassing the ECU or controller.

Two is to change the front sprocket size. And omg does this work well! Harlan from hollywood electrics did this on a 2010 Cafe Racer ... I was riding the cafe racer, and harlan was riding a 2012 XU... I thought harlan was just being a grandma on the throttle, but as it turned out, that's just how hard the modified sprocket 2010 blows away the stock 2012 Zero XU off the line upto the new top speed of around 65 mph.

Thanks for your reply, BUt the throttle curve mean nothing. it is just a 0-5k signal that is adjusted in relationship with the PWM that the conrtoller send to the motor... BUT.. if the ECU see that speed between 0-30, he just cut the current of the controller by bypassing the 0-5K of the throttle grip signal and overide it to a lower PWM to limit the max current, until the speed signal is above 30.

That's what i understand on how it work..

So what i mean is that you can be WOT full throttle, but if  the ecu is limiting the current by overiding the throttle signal, you will not hae the full power until it's above 30.

I have to put it on my dyno and play with these throttle wires  and DVM to see exactlyhappen.

Doc

[Electric Cowboy]

hmmm... I may be misunderstood what the throttle curve was. I thought it regulated the translation of the throttle position to the output power based upon the speed... I'll have to look into this more to see what it does.

If you are on a 2011, increase your scale along with your ramp rate on the ecu, be aware that if your peak is too high and your scale is also too high, you may get some cut outs as you accelerate. I really do notice better acceleration with my throttle  curve. I'll have to draw my own and see what happens.

[Doctorbass]

hmmm... I may be misunderstood what the throttle curve was. I thought it regulated the translation of the throttle position to the output power based upon the speed... I'll have to look into this more to see what it does.

If you are on a 2011, increase your scale along with your ramp rate on the ecu, be aware that if your peak is too high and your scale is also too high, you may get some cut outs as you accelerate. I really do notice better acceleration with my throttle  curve. I'll have to draw my own and see what happens.

Exactly, you can not force the full power with the throttle WOT IF some of the system protections or aparently speed below 30.

Here are my measurement to conclude how the system is working that way:



Doc

[Doctorbass]

I measured the continuity between the wires that connect to the alltrax and the wires  of the MBB throttle input . ( in other words, what kind of resistance  the BBM is affecting on the throttle line.

I found that whatever the  key is OFF or ON,  the white wire have 0.4 ohm  ALL THE TIME
and the white/blu wire have 18.4 ohm  ( probaly the MBB I/O components that are adding that resistance)

Now, when i reconnect everything except the two throttle wires that connect to the Alltrax and that i measure the resistance between both, i get 2.3 ohm when the key is ON ( wich is close to the throttle grip wires resisatnce themself ( 0.4 ohm) and corresponsing to the standby state ( 0% throttle)
When the key is OFF, the resisatnce is 1277ohm between the two wires.

That mean if i add a switch that make a direct connection of  the white/blue wire between the controller and the throttle grip i should have acces to all the  power all the time and the only limiting features will be the alltrax programming parametrers

Doc

[firepower]

What is WOT ?

[Doctorbass]

Wide Open Throttle   

[Doctorbass]

OK I have located the throttle line on the MBB connector.

This will alow easy acces for adding a switch  between those two wires ( the 2 wht/blu , one from the throttle and one from the controller) i will be able to overide the limiting effect of the controller   and have full power availlable al the time..

 I'll have to be carefull for the usage to not have any problem if a malfunction would occur while the switch is activated.

I added some P-touch tape on these wires so you see where they are on the MBB big connector









Doc

[Electric Cowboy]

That's a 2011 right? you know there is a throttle curve in the controller, then a filter on top of that in the mbb.

I am not quite sure, but I think what you are doing could cause you to have the chance of your bike powering up at full throttle and flying away.

I would love to know how this works for you.