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Author Topic: Glitch  (Read 13552 times)

RickSteeb

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Glitch
« on: February 18, 2012, 07:51:09 AM »

Was about half way to work this morning, going 75 or so in the diamond lane, when the motor abruptly quit.  Coasted to the shoulder, re-booted, and no further issues have come up.

Any idea what that was about?  Sustained full-throttle running hasn't been an issue before; it was about 47 degrees ambient at the time, so overheating seems unlikely...   ?
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Doctorbass

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 08:13:40 AM »

Motor or controller temp protection? ?

any error code ?

Doc
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dkw12002

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 08:59:10 AM »

Bad fuel pump. LOL. This happens to my e-bikes from increased voltage if I try to climb a steep hill that is too much for the motor. Reboot and it starts right up again. Of course that shouldn't be the case with the big Zero motor. Sorry to hear of the glitch though. I ride mine like crazy accelerating up hills wot and haven't had it shut down yet. The fan does come on when I do that though. (2011 model). I would e-mail Zero on that one cause it could be a safety issue.

To digress, I owned a new 1978 Corvette that would die on the Autobahn going 90 mph.  I'd pull over and after a few seconds it would start again. I contacted Chevy several times and finally, they fessed up. They had put a plastic liner inside the gas tank to prevent rear end collisions from causing fires, and it was not fully cured so was contaminating the gas. After about 4 fill-ups it went away. Different problem, but still dangerous.


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protomech

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 09:06:53 AM »

Any chance you were in ECO mode? Another member reported a similar problem:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=1924.0

I have been told by ZERO they have new software that will fix my shutting down in ECO mode problem. They are going to make the software change for me when they can get my bike.

I had to laugh  ::) when I was told this problem was unique to my bike, no one else has had this problem, and then a minute later told that they have new software to correct it. Huh? ???
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trikester

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 11:04:16 AM »

I'm the one who had the problem in ECO mode and ZERO determined that I had a faulty circuit board on my 2012 DS which they have now replaced.  I haven't been able to test it much yet since the repair, because I'm now in the process of changing the rear wheel to a 17", like I did on my 2010 DS (actually swapping my modified swing arm from the 2010 to the 2012). After I get done with the mod I'll ride it in ECO mode for a while to check it out.

MY 2010 DS has also mysteriously shut off like that, but only about three or four times in the 1 1/2 years I have owned it. This happened under mild riding conditions with fully charged battery and light load. Harlan, @ Hollywood Electrics, said that there were some contactor problems with the early bikes but that part has been changed with the newer bikes. So that could be the source of the occasional problem on my 2010. It was one of the very first ones shipped from the factory.

Trikester
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oobflyer

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 11:14:32 AM »

Something similar happened to me under similar circumstances. I was also riding at full throttle, on the freeway, in ECO mode. I was traveling at about 75 MPH into a headwind, when suddenly I lost all power. I released the throttle, and started to pull over to the shoulder of the freeway when the power suddenly returned. It was only gone for a few seconds and I only slowed to about 55 MPH, at which point I was able to accelerate back up to the speed limit (70MPH).

I'm assuming that it was nothing serious, as there were no warning lights on the dash. It hasn't happened since.
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Richard230

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 09:42:59 PM »

I had a stalling problem last week, too.  I was riding my 2012 Zero S in Eco mode and got stuck at a long traffic light. I was there for at least 3 minutes with the throttle off and not moving. When the light finally turned green and traffic started to move, I turned the throttle and nothing happened.  There were no warning indicators and the instrument panel looked normal.  The throttle just didn't move the bike. So I turned off the ignition and turned it back on again (as traffic squeezed past me) and was immediately able to ride off after the computer rebooted.  Since that time I have had no stalling issues and certainly none while moving.

My guess is that there is a safety feature in the computer programing that cuts power to the motor when the bike sits with the power on and does not move for a certain number of minutes.  I can see how leaving the bike on, walking away, and then someone playing with the throttle might be an issue that turning the power off to the motor would prevent.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

protomech

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 10:06:54 PM »

Richard230: if that were the case, I would have expected to see something in the owner's manual or some type of indicator on the dash. Disabling power, esp without any indication that it's taken place, sounds like a safety detriment rather than a benefit. Beyond your issue of needing to move at a stoplight, what if someone was coming up behind you at the light and failed to see you..

Hopefully Zero will get you all squared away ASAP.
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RickSteeb

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 11:18:49 PM »

Computers... So often a reboot clears up an issue that is never explained!  I never saw any fault code or indicator light up, but then my interest was in coasting across four lanes of traffic to get to the shoulder unscathed!  In four weeks and almost 800 miles, that's the only weird behavior it's had thus far.  Will watch for a software patch/update/?
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trikester

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 12:23:20 AM »

Ok, it's beginning to look like the mysterious momentary loss of power is an increasing experience. I didn't have any fault warning indicators either. On the 2012 it only happened in ECO mode but on the 2010 there is no mode choice. It seems to be random and rare in my 2010 DS case, and not tied to any particular riding situation. In the 2012 it seemed to be a frequent occurrence but only in the ECO mode and ZERO found a faulty circuit to replace. I am assuming now that my 2012 DS is fine after the repair, but I still have no definite diagnosis for the 2010 DS, except to suspect the contactor (high current relay) used in the early bikes (my 2010 was in the first batch shipped).

I am very pleased with the way Hollywood Electrics and ZERO took care of the problem on my 2012. They "bent over backwards" to service my bike and quickly get to the root of the problem, in finding the faulty circuit. Their diagnostics machine pointed directly to the fault which could have been in the circuit's electrical connector or a faulty component on the PC board.  8)
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Richard230

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 05:37:53 AM »

It happened to me again today.  I rode down a mile long expressway with the throttle off and came to a stop at a traffic signal at the bottom of the street. I was in Sport mode at the time. I had to wait for about a minute for the cross traffic to clear (I had the right turn signal on as I was making a right turn at the intersection) and the bike failed to start up again when the throttle was turned. I turned the key off and back on and was able to immediately take off, after the computer rebooted.  I rode around for about another 30 miles today, stopping at longer lights and never had another problem. 

Right now I am not seeing much of a pattern, other than coming to a stop and waiting for for a short time.  I really hate random and intermittent problems. At least it isn't happening while the bike is in motion. I am staying out of the center of the lane for now, just in case someone wants to pass me if I stall out again.  I am going to keep riding the bike for a while longer and see if it gets any worse before contacting my dealer. Fortunately, I don't ride during commute hours.

I had exactly the same problem with my GPR-S. It would stall occasionally when coming to a stop. But with that bike I had to wait exactly 3 minutes before I could reboot the controller. I finally got a controller programmer and discovered that it was seeing a "contactor fault".  Which, unfortunately, I was never able to resolve.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Harlan

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 02:25:25 AM »

Hey Richard.  I think the phenomenon that you are experiencing is different from that of trikester. 

The way the sevcon is setup, you may occasionally experience a lag time in torque, that feels like a dead throttle, when you come to a complete stop.  From my personal experience, it resolves itself after a second, or as soon as the bike either rolls forward or backward and the torque "catches".  If you want to make sure you feel the torque after coming to a complete stop, you could roll the throttle on a bit with the front brake on until you feel the forks start to compress and know that you will get a good launch.
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Harlan Flagg
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Richard230

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 05:06:01 AM »

Hi Harlan, 

After my second stalling incident, I started to test the throttle at long stop lights. I would feel the bike pull a little and then I would know that it was ready to take off and it would.  If it happens again on the way to my dentist tomorrow, I'll spend a little more time to verify that there wasn't just a temporary lag and I wasn't just jumping the gun by rebooting.  Now that I know this might happen, I'll be ready for it if it does.

In any case, I just received a call from Zero, who told me that they wanted to go over my bike and reprogram the controller. They are going to stop by my home later this week, pick up my bike and return it to the factory, drop off a loaner for me to use while mine is being checked over and fixed at the factory. They will ride it around for a day to make sure everything is up to spec and return it to my home.  All I have to do is to open up my garage door a couple of times. Now that is what I call great service!   ;D
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

protomech

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 05:09:28 AM »

Nice : )
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manlytom

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 05:50:38 AM »

lucky u live in the right area. nevertheless they gave me good, somewhat longish service here, far away in Oz.  :) Guess with great service they now can make the difference and keep leading this. Even established players like BMW or KTM likely will struggle as all their training and service is geared towards IC bikes. Remember chemical photography - Kodak -- is no more, replaced by new players.
T
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Tom
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