ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Patrick Truchon on January 13, 2018, 09:34:50 AM
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It's been a while since I've been here so I thought I'd come by one last time to say goodbye. My 2013 Zero DS died last year and it took me over a year to get over the anger.
The super short story is that half a year after I bought it, I started having lots of different issues:
- Motor was loose.
- Swingarm bearings had to be replaced
- Controller died
- Back wheel assembly had to be replaced
- Motor had to be replaced
- Charging cord melted and isolation fault errors started showing up
- Power started cutting out.
Halfway through that list, I tried to contact Zero and didn't get an answer until the isolation fault errors six month later. That's when they told me to take the bike back to the dealership (for the last time). So on my way to the there, I experienced multiple power cut outs. I ended up having to pull over and wait for two hours in the rain for a tow truck.
I tried to get Zero to take their lemon back and give me a credit towards a new bike but was finally told that "there is no trade assist program available from Zero at this time". Finally, almost half a year later, I got a letter from my dealership saying that if I didn't authorize them to work on the bike, they'd start charging me a daily fee to store the bike. I was so angry that I just signed the piece of shit over to them for nothing.
The longer version of the story is here (http://ptruchon.pagekite.me/wiki/blog/20180112goodbye_zero).
Anyways, if you're thinking about buying a Zero, I would think twice. It's not so much that their motorcycles are crap. I'm sure most of them are just fine and I was just very unlucky. But it's that when things do go south, they clearly don't stand behind their product.
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What I don't understand is how you ended up just handing the bike back to them. You must have been livid.
Another question that springs to mind after reading your blog post is: Did you try picking up the phone and speaking to Aaron? He can be hard to get hold of, but you will probably end up speaking to one of his colleagues at least.
I have also experienced much of the frustration you've had with Zero's customer service. It took them two months to replace my rear wheel when the bearings went for the second time in quick succession. However, I did manage to get a satisfactory outcome. In a nutshell, Aaron extended my warranty by a year. I also had the use of a courtesy bike from the dealer for the duration.
I hate to say this, but the fundamental reason that so many people have had such a terrible experience with Zero's after sales care (or lack thereof), is that Aaron isn't very organised and can't even keep on top of his mailbox, let alone running his side of the business. A case in point is how long it has taken him to set up the European distribution centre. I'm told he's a nice guy if you get to know him, but he desperately needs to get his act together because it comes across the other way. I've told him that too.
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The OP is a bit alarming to me as someone who plans to drop 20g on a 2018 in the very near future.
Maybe current production no longer leads to similar sad stories. Or maybe not.
Buyers of late model Zeros:
Please, PLEASE share your reliability experience. Thanks.
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My 13 is doing good. After I had my problems with the BMS and battery (same time) and Zero shipped it across country replaced the battery and shipped it back for free after it was out of warranty, I can't hate on them.
The dealer quagmire is an issue with most wanting repair money but not wanting to put in the time and hassle to do over the phone tech work. Same with the guys at Zero not loving talking some guy through a problem he's never seen before.
Patrick I hate it all went so bad for you. If the Tesla Roadster II specs are true batteries will be much better soon so don't give up all hope.
My opinion of the bike is still I love it more than any other toy I have ever owned, when it's working good. But it's a scary nerve racking day when it does't work right, hasn't happened in the last year.
I'd tell anyone not to let this be your only way to get around. Bigger issues take longer than gas issues do today. Have a backup plan but enjoy it everyday you can.
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I have had nothing but good experiences with Zero's customer service over the years. But I haven't had an major problems since 2012.
In 2012, I had two minor issues with my 2012 S. One was a stalling problem caused by a defective throttle assembly and the other was the "glitch" recall. In both cases, Zero sent a truck to my home, picked up my bike, took it back to the factory, performed repairs and returned my Zero back to me a few days later. The 2012 S is owned by my daughter and is still running great, although the motor's encoder device failed, causing random stalling, but my son-in-law bought a new one from the motor manufacturer for $30, installed it himself and the bike has been running fine ever since.
My 2014 S had a defective power tank when it was first installed by my dealer. A Zero technician drove to the shop, installed a new PT, took the old PT back to the factory and then installed the latest firmware, all of which took two hours and at no cost to me. After that I never had another issue with the 2014 S, other than the battery pack is slowly loosing capacity. But my daughter still has that bike and it continues to run perfectly, also. The bike never needed to be returned to the dealer for repairs or servicing. (That was a good thing too, as the shop went out of business a few years ago, which had nothing to do with their Zero franchise.)
So far this year I have contacted Zero customer service twice regarding minor issues, which had nothing to do with the 2018 S that I just bought. Both times have received a response just a few hours later. One issue was regarding getting their 2018 lineup approved for the CA EV rebate and the other contact was because about a missing part on a Zero accessory that I had purchased through my dealer. Both issues were corrected within a few days of my contacting Zero.
So far I have had nothing but good experiences with Zero's customer service. :) But of course, I am keeping my fingers crossed. ;)
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The OP is a bit alarming to me as someone who plans to drop 20g on a 2018 in the very near future.
Maybe current production no longer leads to similar sad stories. Or maybe not.
Buyers of late model Zeros:
Please, PLEASE share your reliability experience. Thanks.
2016 SR, not one problem yet.
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What I don't understand is how you ended up just handing the bike back to them. You must have been livid.
Yes, I was. But also, I live about 2.5 hours away from the dealership, which includes a 45 minute ferry ride. I couldn't imagine paying a tow truck for a 5 hour round trip + ferry fare to get that piece of $hit back home. What would I do next, pay again to get it back to the dealership at some point? Of course you can debate whether that was the right decision or not. I'm still debating that myself.
To those thinking of buying a later model Zero: I'm sure the new bikes are much more reliable. At the time, I was willing to take a credit for the dead 2013 DS and fork another $15k to get a new 2017 DSR but they weren't interested in keeping me as a customer. The main reason I'm sharing this is not to argue that their bikes are crap. Mine was, but it could be a one off. The main reason I'm sharing this is just to give an example of how Zero deals with issues when things do go bad. Knowing that now, I can't see myself dealing with a company like that, so that leaves me waiting for the competitors to become available in Canada... Unless they somehow reach out to me and offer me a really sweat deal, very convincing reassurance that it was all a mistake, and a sincere apology (eh I'm Canadian, that matters ;)). But I'm really not expecting anything like that to happen.
Anyways, you guys are a really supportive group. I'll miss you and I'll miss my electric motorcycle for sure. When it worked, it was a great bike. I can't wait for there to be more options! Until next time...
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I have owned 3 Zeros. A 2012 XU which was destroyed when I was run over by an SUV.
A somewhat modified 2013 FX(s). and a 2016 13 KW SR. I had a few issues with the XU
from the moment I went to pick it up after purchase. It was the last one sold by a local
dealer before they stopped carrying Zeros. The forks were replaced several times over the
first few months. Even though the dealership was no longer selling Zeros, they went out of
their way to see that everything was taken care of. After the fork issue was straightened out,
I had no other issues until a year or so later when it had to have the motor replaced.
By this time, I was dealing with Harlan at Hollywood Electrics, and the work was done in a
timely manner.
The FX(s) has an S front end, S brakes, and the aftermarket shock. I purchased it second
hand and have had NO problems with it at all.
My 2016 SR was purchased one year old with 500 miles on it. It has had the on board
charger replaced four times. As mentioned in other posts I believe that the charger problem
is caused by low voltage going to the charger. I have also had to have the BMS (?) replaced.
All work on the 2016 has been done by Hollywood Electrics. Each time I needed work done,
I contacted them for a time to bring it in. The Longest I was ever without the SR was less than
a week. Their service department is closed on Sunday and the shop is closed on Monday.
The long wait ( probably 4 days ) was when the technician working on the bike became ill
and was not at work. When work was completed, they went out of their way to make
pick up as convenient as possible. Any parts or accessories that I have ordered through
Hollywood have arrived within a few days, usually being drop shipped to me directly from
the factory. I believe that a lot of the problems that people have with the bike or dealership
has more to do with the dealer than Zero. Many dealerships seem to pick up the Zero Brand
as an add on. If the sales staff isn't passionate about electric motorcycles, it will show in their
support, just like in electric cars. I believe that having a good dealer is a major part of having
a positive experience. There is now a Zero dealership 7.5 miles from my house. Given the
level of service that I receive from Hollywood, I will take it the 300 miles to them rather than
chance a bad experience locally.
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I'm finding this thread extremely interesting. Talking about Zero's customer support feels a bit like talking about mental health issues. It takes a bit of courage to start talking about it and you often find people have been tolerating things they shouldn't and suffering in silence. It may not be the best analogy, but there are some parallels, I feel.
I'm absolutely gobsmacked by your story Patrick and I don't think it's over. This is a clear case of the same poor communication that I and many others have experienced. KrazyEd makes a very good point.
For what it's worth, I learnt that when the dealer lets you down (even thought they're making a convincing argument that they're doing all they can), I had to take matters into my own hands. By all means keep the dealer updated, but do what you can on your own. I can see that you've certainly tried over a long period of time, Patrick.
I really don't want to upset you, so please don't take this as anything but me trying to help. The key thing I learnt was that Aaron was willing to make things right, given an opportunity to do so. I think that's a valuable thing to know.
If you have the time and emotional energy, may I suggest writing a letter which documents your customer service history. That should be easy as you've already got a lot of it written down. Send an email directly to Aaron attaching the letter. The following day, follow it up with a phone call. If you can't speak to Aaron, explain the situation to one of his colleagues. Ask them to make sure Aaron reads the email you sent. If you don't get a response in a day or two, call them back and ask for an update. Rinse and repeat until you get somewhere.
I how that helps and good luck if you decide to give it a go.
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Yep.... The squeaky wheel syndrome.... Beat them into submission.... I have won several vehicle related battles this way.... Tenacity prevails.... Especially when you are right !!!!
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[my comments on the list of the OP]
- Motor was loose. --> check
Swingarm bearings had to be replaced --> nopeController died --> but my on-board charger didBack wheel assembly had to be replaced --> nope - Motor had to be replaced --> check
Charging cord melted and isolation fault errors started showing up --> partly check - Power started cutting out. --> check
- three times in the shop
- the second time the dealer towed my bike free of charge (other two time I could drive there myself)
- complete drive train and the charger was replaced
- in total about 6~8 weeks in the shop
- everything got replaced under warranty.
Not a perfect track record but I've got no complaints given the circumstances.
Also, I never had to deal with Zero customer support and my dealer handled everything.
Ever since that one electrical and one mechanical defect was fixed (which were present from day 1, which was march 2017) I had nothing but smooth runnin's
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Patrick, it's a shame your experience has been so bad. The couple of interactions I've had with you, you've seemed one of the more level-headed and intelligent members of the community. You will be a loss for the community.
You do have a pretty long list of issues with your bike...it's unfortunate that happens at all, but when it does happen, you hope it's with someone who has better access to support from a dealer. I doubt I would have bought my 2014 SR if I wasn't just a few miles from my local dealer, and yes, my bike has been mounted on the local hauler a few times (thank you, San Diego Motorcycle Towing!).
I also doubt I would have bought if I wasn't an EE with a love of all things electronic, or I wasn't at a place in my life where I can afford an occasional fairly expensive repair. (Few things hurt as bad as a favorite toy giving you a repair bill you just can't afford.) Zero is still a very young vehicle manufacturer, and they're really just now getting to a place where they can provide reasonable reliability in all ways. They just ain't Tesla, yet.
Early adoption isn't for everybody. It can be expensive and frustrating. It might leave you stranded by the side of the road, broke, and/or without transportation for a while. That's becoming less and less true for Zero, but until they do functionally become Tesla, we still qualify as early adopters.
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The OP is a bit alarming to me as someone who plans to drop 20g on a 2018 in the very near future.
Maybe current production no longer leads to similar sad stories. Or maybe not.
Buyers of late model Zeros:
Please, PLEASE share your reliability experience. Thanks.
Proper disclosure: I don't yet have a Zero, so don't have a dog in this fight (partly because of lack of range for day tours, partly because of the support risks -- bikes are very expensive here, and whatever one I buy would be my only bike and main vehicle, needing to be reliable 99.9% of the time).
If you haven't, definitely read this thread (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6757.0).
Anyone considering a BEV bike needs to understand that it's still a tiny, non-mainstream, market (there's a reason why none of the large motorcycle marques are offering electrics, except for KTM and BMW's scooter).
My take is that Zero is still a startup (they sold <1800 bikes in 2015, and AFAIR, did <5K in 2017) . As typical of startups, doesn't have streamlined support operations. Buying an e-motorcycle means being an early adopter with the associated risks, which you may or may not be fine with.
Also, since e-motorcycles are so rare, very few dealers have experience with them. There are a small number of dealerships that have extensive experience with Zeros (mostly in California, unsurprisingly). Some of the support experience will depend on the dealer you have.
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Hey Patrick, you have my sympathies for your situation. But I feel like I have to say something that you probably don't want to hear (even though you've probably already thought it). Giving them the cold shoulder (as you put it) and refusing to have the bike repaired seems like a foolish mistake. You could have had it repaired and either sold it (working condition 2013 DS that has had a ton of new work done should go for at least 7k) or held onto it until you could make a deal with Zero. As for your 1hr45min trip; could you have driven it to the ferry (or further) and then charged up somewhere (maybe make a trip out of it)? If you're going 50-60mph you should be able to make that distance (unless that's 1.75hrs at 80+mph) on two charges. It sounds like you really wanted a newer bike and you let your anger and desire blind you to the least shitty option. Anyway, sorry for your shitty situation, but I just felt I had to get this perspective out there.
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I have been holding off responding because I am heart broken and furious!!
Patrick is one of the key individuals who helped me decide to get a Zero. He has an online resource that is still referenced by this community. It was also nice to visit plug share charge stations and seeing Patrick had checked in previously.
I don't know how it is elsewhere but in Canada we are not accustomed to hiring a lawyer every time we want a company to support their product. We don't walk away from those companies, we RUN.
This treatment of early adopters of their products in trouble seems to be congruent across the board. Afterall, those are the stories that make the most noise. No I don't think Zero is doing a good job here, in fact it is below satisfaction. As a customer, I would like to see these customers treated as the hero's they are. Essentially the reason the company exists today. Poor form, poor branding and ironically devaluing the corporate image.
Business wise I think Zero is doomed. It's really a shame as the engineering and maturity of the technology is first rate. It is clear that management has one major objective at the cost of everything else. Profit; so either they can go public or be sold to a larger company. It is a short term and ultimately doomed plan.
At this time I can certainly say I am paying very close attention to the competition which grows( Harley just committed to production of an EV motorcycle).
Sent from my ASUS_Z01HD using Tapatalk
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ElectricZen, I don't think there's reason to think Zero are necessarily a bunch of greedy capitalists. It's much more likely to be down to disorganization.
Recall they're still a small-ish operation, without deep pockets, no matter what marketing image they may try to project. While I have no access to their financials, it's a safe bet they're not making significant profits.
Customer support is a day-to-day operations matter, also tied to supply chain & logistics issues -- not something small tech-oriented companies are good at.
As someone who's worked at several startups and also at a VC which funded many of them, it's a very difficult transition from focusing on doing the R&D for leading-edge new products, to focus on reliability and supporting them in the field. It takes completely different personality types, for one.
As I noted upthread, anyone considering buying an electric motorcycle at this point needs to understand this -- they're for early adopters, and not mature products. If a person wants something with predictable reliability support as a Big 4 ICE bike, they really need to wait ~3 years until after one of the Big 4 has started selling EV bikes, and ironed out all the issues.
Right now, there's no sizeable market. Motorcycles as a whole are a tiny market, compared to cars, and EV cars aren't exactly mainstream -- worldwide, they had a 1.3% marketshare (http://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/) (BEVs and PHEVs together), and that's mostly because of China.
It's not a coincidence none of the established moto vendors has so far even developed an non-scooter/moped EV prototype, aside from KTM.
H-D's Project Livewire doesn't account, and neither does the recent announcement they'll launch an actual bike until we see the prototype (I'm not very hopeful given the 50mi range of Livewire).
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ElectricZen, I don't think there's reason to think Zero are necessarily a bunch of greedy capitalists. It's much more likely to be down to disorganization.
Recall they're still a small-ish operation, without deep pockets, no matter what marketing image they may try to project. While I have no access to their financials, it's a safe bet they're not making significant profits.
Customer support is a day-to-day operations matter, also tied to supply chain & logistics issues -- not something small tech-oriented companies are good at.
As someone who's worked at several startups and also at a VC which funded many of them, it's a very difficult transition from focusing on doing the R&D for leading-edge new products, to focus on reliability and supporting them in the field. It takes completely different personality types, for one.
As I noted upthread, anyone considering buying an electric motorcycle at this point needs to understand this -- they're for early adopters, and not mature products. If a person wants something with predictable reliability support as a Big 4 ICE bike, they really need to wait ~3 years until after one of the Big 4 has started selling EV bikes, and ironed out all the issues.
Right now, there's no sizeable market. Motorcycles as a whole are a tiny market, compared to cars, and EV cars aren't exactly mainstream -- worldwide, they had a 1.3% marketshare (http://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/) (BEVs and PHEVs together), and that's mostly because of China.
It's not a coincidence none of the established moto vendors has so far even developed an non-scooter/moped EV prototype, aside from KTM.
H-D's Project Livewire doesn't account, and neither does the recent announcement they'll launch an actual bike until we see the prototype (I'm not very hopeful given the 50mi range of Livewire).
I personally am done with the apologist position. I held that position far too long for a company that has done nothing to ensure my unwavering support. We can make every excuse for them but I would not endorse their product going forward.
I also think you are incorrect by claiming they are not a mature product. 10+years in the business and 2015+ bikes are proving to be reliable when excluding the charger issues they still suffer from. Ironically, the diginow(aftermarket) is proving to be the most reliable solution. Certainly in my experience.
As you stated the motorcycle industry as a whole is in trouble. This is where branding is so important. I too have been involved with a few startups, tech and other customer focused businesses. Brand recognition will help with sales but you only get that from going above and beyond expectations. But delivering at below expectations... Is suicide. Sorry just hard truth. No one loves their Zero more than me, but too many stories like this from people I respect.
One major competitor and they are going to struggle even more. Without the loyality of existing customers, they will lose. I'm not going to be in the market for a new bike for 3-4 years (touch wood). The market is going to look very different at that time.
Sent from my ASUS_Z01HD using Tapatalk
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2015 Zero SR. Many issues. Lots of time in the shop. Zero provided replacement parts when something was proven bad, but they took over a month for each. Any other issues, random shutdowns, slowdowns, etc. they just said update the firmware. Last years firmware caused random state of charge and range. My bike is getting worse over time.
Finally I hired a lawyer. Zeros lawyer gave us offensive offers, said the bike was fine, third party chargers voided the warranty (couldn't prove this and back peddled later on), and finally just stopped replying, like Zero did when they started "processing my refund request". We have a court date for March 29th, Virginia Lemon law is quite clear, they're going to owe me a lot of money.
Wife's 2016 S lost propulsion and the dash went to 0 MPH while on the freeway. She's a new rider and they never gave us a root cause, just, you guessed it, a firmware update recommendation. We're going to sell it, or I'm going to ride it and record everything with a helmet cam, in case it kills me. She's afraid to get back in the saddle. We're 100% solar and EV, so we're going to give up on 2 wheeled EVs until the Harley arrives, hopefully it's decent. May get us both back on the road with that.
Zero doesn't stand behind their products. The dealers get ghosted if Zero can't fix the issue, or if they question the "installed the new firmware" mantra that they push. Buy a Zero at your own risk, you get a bad one, you're stick with it.
The OP is a bit alarming to me as someone who plans to drop 20g on a 2018 in the very near future.
Maybe current production no longer leads to similar sad stories. Or maybe not.
Buyers of late model Zeros:
Please, PLEASE share your reliability experience. Thanks.
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nevetsyad, very very sorry to read your story. My 2015 DS is flawless except for on-board charger going tits up one one time. (warranty)
I hope you will get some satisfaction somewhere in your situation...
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Yeah, a month or two out the gate my 2015 lost it's charger. I was told replacing it would fix my random shutdowns. Took over a month for it to get in. Two weeks for the dealer to finally get a tech on the phone to help with install issues.
Only solace I can get now is by winning in court and getting my money, and legal fees back. I've never been so frustrated with a company before. :(
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So sad to hear your story Patrick.
I was unhappy with Zero with my 2011 S, didn't seem to be responsive,
but my 2014 SR has run well, except for one onboard charger incident
(fixed with firmware they said), very reliable.
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Looking to get into electric motorcycles. Been concentrating on the Alta Redshift EX or the Zero FX. Kind of liked the FX because of the bigger pack size and lower price, but after reading this I am thinking the Alta is a better product. I live in Boise with no Zero dealer, but there is an Alta dealer. Buying a bike without good factory support is a non starter for me, sorry Zero.
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Sorry, but I came on here to start a thread with the exact same title.
I own a 2015 Zero SR. It’s been in the shop 8 times in three years, all for warranty work. Several visits to the shop took over a month, which means I had to make payments on a bike that wasn’t even in my possession! This latest issue has lasted over a month...again.
After 3 years and 17,000 miles, the battery is dead. I had to actually argue with the service shop manager because he insisted that “Zero batteries don’t go badâ€. Yeah right. Charge it to 100% and try to go further than 30 miles. I hope you bring your cellphone or some decent walking shoes, bottled water, and a hat.
My R1 has 25,000 miles on it, and it’s never been to the shop for anything other than tires. Funny how a race bike with lights and a plate can go 25,000 miles with no issues but a “zero maintenance†bike needs constant repair.
I spoke with the head sales manager (it’s a family owned business and I think he’s the boss), he’s supposed to call me today. He’s trying to find out if Zero will warranty my battery. IF? For the life of me, I can’t figure out why it’s taken a month to find out if Zero will warranty a 3 year old battery with 17,000 miles on it. There should be no question.
I want off this train wreck. The concept is great, but not at my expense anymore. I was told that assuming the battery is warrantied, the bike will have depreciated 60% in 3 years. I’ll be able to do an even swap for a 2018 Honda Shadow Phantom. At least I know how to work on the Shadow, and I doubt I’ll have to do much to it other than valve adjustments, which appear to be as easy as doing a lawnmower.
Goodbye Zero, great concept, poorly executed.
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Sorry, but I came on here to start a thread with the exact same title.
I own a 2015 Zero SR. It’s been in the shop 8 times in three years, all for warranty work. Several visits to the shop took over a month, which means I had to make payments on a bike that wasn’t even in my possession! This latest issue has lasted over a month...again.
After 3 years and 17,000 miles, the battery is dead. I had to actually argue with the service shop manager because he insisted that “Zero batteries don’t go badâ€. Yeah right. Charge it to 100% and try to go further than 30 miles. I hope you bring your cellphone or some decent walking shoes, bottled water, and a hat.
My R1 has 25,000 miles on it, and it’s never been to the shop for anything other than tires. Funny how a race bike with lights and a plate can go 25,000 miles with no issues but a “zero maintenance†bike needs constant repair.
I spoke with the head sales manager (it’s a family owned business and I think he’s the boss), he’s supposed to call me today. He’s trying to find out if Zero will warranty my battery. IF? For the life of me, I can’t figure out why it’s taken a month to find out if Zero will warranty a 3 year old battery with 17,000 miles on it. There should be no question.
I want off this train wreck. The concept is great, but not at my expense anymore. I was told that assuming the battery is warrantied, the bike will have depreciated 60% in 3 years. I’ll be able to do an even swap for a 2018 Honda Shadow Phantom. At least I know how to work on the Shadow, and I doubt I’ll have to do much to it other than valve adjustments, which appear to be as easy as doing a lawnmower.
Goodbye Zero, great concept, poorly executed.
Sorry to hear about your issues. Don't have a Zero yet, partially because range/charging options aren't there yet for sport-touring (I'm not in the US, and digichargers wouldn't help, and even if they did, cost is out of line) and partially because I'm concerned the tiny importer into my country, also the single service location, might be too far away from the factory to be able to get parts & Zero's attention in reasonable time.
I assume you're in the US? If so, look into whether your state has a Lemon Law. I would have lost patience after the third downtime incident. In parallel, try contacting Zero directly, their PR & management directly.
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Third month plus long incident did it for me. That and them insisting nothing was wrong, especially when I bought a helmet cam to record the issues for them. Three shops took a try at it, first I bought from, dropped them. Made things difficult, as there was no nearby support.
Luckily for me, my state’s lemon laws cover motorcycles! I appealed to Zero management first and they said they would submit me for a refund review with the board, after a month of collecting paperwork and jumping through hoops. All that just to ignore me - I guess I’m too vocal about Zero problems on social media. They tried to run down the clock so I wouldn’t have a lemon law claim. Then their lawyer offered me pennies on the dollar for my bike, when they clearly owe me a full refund.
Great bike when it worked, even though it kept turning off while riding it, slowing to half highway speed on the highways, stranding me with system panics/flashing dash panics and all. That EV torque is amazing, and no more gas station visits every few days is great. Hopefully the HD EV is better supported.
Horrible company with horrible support. Goodbye Zero.
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Sorry to hear about your issues. Don't have a Zero yet, partially because range/charging options aren't there yet for sport-touring (I'm not in the US, and digichargers wouldn't help, and even if they did, cost is out of line) and partially because I'm concerned the tiny importer into my country, also the single service location, might be too far away from the factory to be able to get parts & Zero's attention in reasonable time.
I assume you're in the US? If so, look into whether your state has a Lemon Law. I would have lost patience after the third downtime incident. In parallel, try contacting Zero directly, their PR & management directly.
Florida law specifically exempts motorcycles from the lemon laws. No help there.
I don’t want to contact Zero, what are they going to do, give me a new battery, pat me on the ass, and say, “away you go!� I don’t want to own a Zero any longer. I’m beginning to think they named it “Zero†because that’s what you’ll end up with when the battery dies. It’s a $6000 bike with a $10,000 battery. The battery dies out of warranty, and it’s totaled. Goodbye and good riddance.
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Request a refund. Or credit towards a new Zero. Much higher chance of a trade in credit.
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Request a refund. Or credit towards a new Zero. Much higher chance of a trade in credit.
I’ve already been told I’ll get a trade in credit, as long as Zero warranties the battery. I’ve already picked out the bike I want, we’re just waiting to hear back from Zero. If they don’t warranty the battery, all Hell is about to break loose.
I don’t want another Zero. Ever.
I want to be done with this crap permanently.
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You’re preaching to the choir. let us know what happens. Have you posted on the Facebook group? Emailed Aaron at Zero?
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You’re preaching to the choir. let us know what happens. Have you posted on the Facebook group? Emailed Aaron at Zero?
No, I’m waiting to hear about the battery. If they screw me, I’ll be the most vocal asshole on the web, sending emails, FB, and snail mail letters to everyone I can think of. Otherwise, I’ll chalk it up as a lesson learned the hard way, shut my mouth, and ride off in the distance on my new Honda.
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Fivespeed that's fine if you don't want a Zero but has it crossed your mind that your "family" owned dealer doesn't know what the hell they're doing?
It is a $6000 bike with a 10k battery, so get a new battery and sell it yourself and make more money and buy anything you want. The "trade in" sounds a bit fishy (see the top of my post).
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Fivespeed that's fine if you don't want a Zero but has it crossed your mind that your "family" owned dealer doesn't know what the hell they're doing?
It is a $6000 bike with a 10k battery, so get a new battery and sell it yourself and make more money and buy anything you want. The "trade in" sounds a bit fishy (see the top of my post).
How long is that going to take? How many $300 payments do I have to make on a bike I can’t even look at, much less ride? At this rate, I’ll get a new battery about the time Oprah gets elected. Any additional money I would get through a private sale will be depleted by the monthly payments. Besides, if I was going to wait long enough for the new battery that I don’t even know I’m going to get, I’d take it to Black Widow Harley-Davidson and get screwed by them too. Nope, just give me the 2018 Shadow Phantom and I’m done. I’ll have the R1 for speed, and a cruiser for riding with my Harley friends. And I’ve already got a horribly ugly and abused 2005 Ninja 250 as a project bike, which is also much more reliable than the Zero.
As far as the dealership goes, they’re one of the oldest Honda dealers in the nation. And yes their service sucks. There’s a Honda dealership much closer and I’ll deal with them for any warranty work, which I don’t anticipate with a Honda Shadow.
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They replaced my battery out of warranty. Shipped it cross country and back and threw in a new cord no cost to me.
Unless you altered the bike in a big way I feel they will replace your battery no problem.
Just for laughs how much are they willing to give you for your "worthless" bike?
P.S. never get anything you can't pay cash for, just great life advise.
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They replaced my battery out of warranty. Shipped it cross country and back and threw in a new cord no cost to me.
Unless you altered the bike in a big way I feel they will replace your battery no problem.
Just for laughs how much are they willing to give you for your "worthless" bike?
P.S. never get anything you can't pay cash for, just great life advise.
They depreciated it by 60%. I should be able to do an even swap on the 2018 Shadow Phantom. The only alterations I made was to swap the lights for LED’s, removed the rear fender, mirrors, and passenger pegs. Your advice about cash doesn’t do me any good at this point. Besides, I’m not even close to having bad credit. I also wouldn’t be able to have the successful business I own and operate without credit. I’d still be stuck with basic tools and stuck doing side jobs if I only paid cash. Buying equipment on credit has tripled my income in three years. I was starving before I bought equipment on credit. In three years time, I’m now making more money than I’ve ever made in my life. All thanks to credit.
I do agree that toys like motorcycles/boats/etc. should probably be paid for in cash. Like I said in a previous post, I learned my lesson.
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Unless you altered the bike in a big way I feel they will replace your battery no problem.
IE don't buy a race bike modified bike ;)
Still rocking my MY13 battery
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I think I could start a business acting as an intermediary between Zero's support department and their customers. What a total and utter failure of such an essential service!
I've been through a lot of pain with Zero support but managed to reach as satisfactory conclusion. However, just the other day my rear shock absorber failed. I called my dealer yesterday asking that it be fixed under warranty. I know I'm going to have to remember to call my dealer later this week to make sure they've actually done something and get them to chase Zero. Then I'm going to have to email Aaron directly. Then I need to follow that up by calling Zero from work right at the end of the day because they're 8 hours behind. Hopefully I'll speak to someone who can rattle Aaron's cage and get him to read my email. Then I have to see if they've delivered on their promise of setting up a European distribution centre that can ship parts to the UK in a timely fashion. By that, I mean within 2-3 working days from the part being ordered. Then I have to make arrangements to drop my bike off and take a courtesy bike. It's going to be painful and slow and very frustrating. All to fix a shock that only lasted 18,000 miles. It's pathetic.
I'm starting to seriously think about saying goodbye myself. Such a terrible shame and I've been so enthusiastic about Zero motorcycles for years now. I wish I'd kept the VFR 1200... Damn! But I'd also like a 2018SR with the new charge tank, just like Justin is buying. Maybe I should see what service I get this time round and make a decision based on that.
What Zero need more than anything is some competition.
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Alright let me say the only reason I said "pay cash" is I had just agreed with you that you would get a 10k new battery and I felt you were missing the windfall of that fact by worrying about a $300 bike payment and letting that get in the way of a better deal.
You could be a tycoon for all I know and good for you if you are.
If you were sick and the closest Dr. couldn't cure you then you would go to a new doctor.
Your bike could very well be a "lemon" because EVERY company has them, I'm just wondering what if it were the dealer. I'm not even saying they would tear it up on purpose (hope not) but they may be screwing it up because they don't work on these much and it's all new.
If a Shadow works out for you, fine, but you have to see the dealer is making money off you coming and going. The guy who gets paid to steer someone in a certain direction might not be the best one to listen to.
That's all man. Good luck.
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Alright let me say the only reason I said "pay cash" is I had just agreed with you that you would get a 10k new battery and I felt you were missing the windfall of that fact by worrying about a $300 bike payment and letting that get in the way of a better deal.
You could be a tycoon for all I know and good for you if you are.
If you were sick and the closest Dr. couldn't cure you then you would go to a new doctor.
Your bike could very well be a "lemon" because EVERY company has them, I'm just wondering what if it were the dealer. I'm not even saying they would tear it up on purpose (hope not) but they may be screwing it up because they don't work on these much and it's all new.
If a Shadow works out for you, fine, but you have to see the dealer is making money off you coming and going. The guy who gets paid to steer someone in a certain direction might not be the best one to listen to.
That's all man. Good luck.
Oh I definitely got screwed coming and going. After 7 weeks, the Zero was still in the shop. Zero (the company) stated that they were going to honor the battery warranty but the dealership had no idea when the battery would be shipped. At that point I told them to keep the damned thing. They bought the bike from me for the amount I still owed the credit company, and I bought a Rebel 500. My payments went down by $100/mo, and my insurance went way down too. The Rebel also came with a 4 year, unlimited mile warranty for an extra $13/mo. It’s not a perfect motorcycle in many ways, but at least I can work on it and there’s a second Honda dealership that’s only a few miles away, as opposed to the Honda/Zero dealer which is 32 miles away.
So the Zero is gone, and I’m sticking with my belief that KTM is the only electric vehicle manufacturer that is properly selling their bikes with the battery being leased. I’ll never buy another electric vehicle of any type without having the option to lease the battery.
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I'm glad you got a bike that works for you.
At the risk of hitting a very dead horse, your dealer would never have gotten a battery shipped to them. Zero shipped all the bikes back to CA and did all the replacements themselves. I can't believe your dealer didn't know that.
I hope you weren't offended by any of my comments I really was trying to help you get the best outcome for you.