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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: calamarichris on January 04, 2018, 02:44:37 AM

Title: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: calamarichris on January 04, 2018, 02:44:37 AM
2018 SR vs. BMW F800GT

2018 SR without Powertank, according to Zero's site
Range                    112 miles (hwy)     223 miles (city)
Cost to Recharge     $1.61                   $1.61
Cost per mile       $0.0144               $0.0072


2015 F800GT (been averaging 48mpg city & hwy combined)
Range                    192 miles (city)
4 gallons @ $3.20     $12.80
Cost per mile        $0.0667

That coupled with the free charging station across the street from my house, this bike should pay for itself pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: MrDude_1 on January 04, 2018, 02:54:27 AM
if you're going to do these numbers, you need to include vehicle cost, resale, and number of miles traveled.
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: calamarichris on January 04, 2018, 04:35:08 AM
Meh--too many variables in a lifetime to include all of them. I was just curious about Zero's claimed fuel costs vs. actual gasoline costs. My BMW does pretty good and has enough squirt to keep ahead of anything on four wheels while still getting 48mpg, but the SR (according to Zero's website) buries that.

Edit: Hey, you can work out the other costs and post it in here!
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: MrDude_1 on January 04, 2018, 05:20:42 AM
Meh--too many variables in a lifetime to include all of them. I was just curious about Zero's claimed fuel costs vs. actual gasoline costs. My BMW does pretty good and has enough squirt to keep ahead of anything on four wheels while still getting 48mpg, but the SR (according to Zero's website) buries that.

Edit: Hey, you can work out the other costs and post it in here!

sure.
zero SR is about 16,500.
F800GT is about 12,000.
so theres about a 4,500 deficit to make up for carrying the same fuel(batteries).
for now, we'll ignore the depreciation rates... but lets just say electrics lose more value.

going off your numbers... .0108 avg per mile for the zero vs .0667 for the bmw...
so it saves 0.0559 per mile.
4,500/0.0559=80500.89

so you only need to ride the SR a bit over 80,000 miles before you break even on the fuel cost vs the upfront cost of electric.
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: Richard230 on January 04, 2018, 07:23:16 AM
Meh--too many variables in a lifetime to include all of them. I was just curious about Zero's claimed fuel costs vs. actual gasoline costs. My BMW does pretty good and has enough squirt to keep ahead of anything on four wheels while still getting 48mpg, but the SR (according to Zero's website) buries that.

Edit: Hey, you can work out the other costs and post it in here!

sure.
zero SR is about 16,500.
F800GT is about 12,000.
so theres about a 4,500 deficit to make up for carrying the same fuel(batteries).
for now, we'll ignore the depreciation rates... but lets just say electrics lose more value.

going off your numbers... .0108 avg per mile for the zero vs .0667 for the bmw...
so it saves 0.0559 per mile.
4,500/0.0559=80500.89

so you only need to ride the SR a bit over 80,000 miles before you break even on the fuel cost vs the upfront cost of electric.

Don't forget insurance premiums.  My Zero S is charged more by Progressive per year than my BMW RS and three times what I am charged for my F650GS.   :o
Title: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: originalspacerob on January 04, 2018, 08:21:37 AM
That is really interesting on the insurance. Thats not the first time I read this here.
    I have Allsate and I pay $100 per year for insurance with full coverage and a $100 deductible. The dealer and myself were blown away. I double checked and the insurance company didnt mix anything up.  Maybe its the area your located in?  Or allstate doesn’t know what progressive knows yet?


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Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: Starpower on January 04, 2018, 09:39:23 AM
My insurance is also under $100 for full coverage but a $500 deductible. I did an experiment charging my ‘13 S with 12.5 battery on gasoline. I used a 2kW genset and 1 gallon of gas gave a 60 mile range so one could also say it gets 60 mpg in effect.

It’s extremely difficult to compare costs without a lot of data. A BMW was used here ignoring their high maintenance costs for one point. And we don’t want to talk about the difference in manufacture support and customer service!!

The majority of us don’t buy bikes based on this discussion it’s pure gut appeal. I don’t fault the Harley guys or scooters. I have a BMW S1000R and this Zero, talk about extremes in bikes! I love them both for very different reasons and rides.

Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: dukecola on January 04, 2018, 08:04:40 PM
The Zero operating cost can be lower than that depending where you live and what your rates are. CA has some of the highest electric rates in the country. I pay less than their "discount" off peak rate.  Anyway, I see you are a newbe and mentioned you charge across the street. I hope you put a sign on your bike that it's OK to unplug if someone else really needs a charge. That's just proper EV etiquette.
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: Richard230 on January 04, 2018, 09:31:13 PM
The insurance premium for my electric motorcycles seems to be doubling every year.  In 2009 I started paying only $5 a year, then after the Boeing and hover board incidents, it started taking off, until now i pay more than for my R1200RS or FZ1.  Apparently, insurance companies may be worried about potential liability due to fires or explosions.  (I only carry third party liability insurance.)   ???
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: NEW2elec on January 04, 2018, 10:14:39 PM
I pay $32 every six months  :)  That gives me crash and theft coverage.  I dropped my uninsured coverage since I figure I'd be dead anyway.

As for the mileage cost, the app tell you "about" how much you have saved by not using gas.  My 21,000 miles shows about $1200 savings.

But if you want to try to make it anywhere near as cheap over all as a gas bike you just need to do one thing.  Buy used :)

A $9000 2015 SR gives you a lot of upgrade and repair cost wiggle room.  A 2018 SR with fees and taxes will be closer to $19000.  That is more than an IPM motor replacement, two digi super chargers, windscreen, riding gear, hard cases and rack. 
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: Richard230 on January 05, 2018, 09:51:30 PM
An interesting chart was included in the BMW C-Evolution article published in the January issue of Motorcycle Consumer News, that compared the cost of riding a C-Evolution scooter and a BMW C650GT scooter for 12,000 miles, based upon $130 per hour labor cost (which is what I pay at my BMW dealer), using BMW's recommended maintenance schedules.  Here is the breakdown:

C-Evolution: 7.7 MPkWh, at $0.09 per kWh (about half of what I pay) = $140.26;  Maintenance costs = $455; for a total of $490.26.

C650GT: 51.3 MPG at $2.85 (I pay 50 cents more per gallon) = $666.66; Maintenance costs = $1,716.00 (ouch!); for a total of $1,986.66.
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: Ndm on January 05, 2018, 11:23:49 PM
just doing some basic comparisons, in Canada the SR with powertank is $28577 w/tax and the 2018 Suzuki gsxr 750 with tax is $14423- almost half!
 insurance is comparable, gas and maintenance combined still don't come close to the difference, you could buy a new bike when the first one needs maintenance, just sayin'
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: calamarichris on January 06, 2018, 01:21:51 AM
Why so expensive in Canada? Duties imposed? Weak Canadian dollar?
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: Ndm on January 06, 2018, 03:34:00 AM
It appears that we pay a $1500cad premium on zero but enjoy price parity with Suzuki (which means the Suzuki is $3000 cad cheaper here) still when you look at the prices of zero with a power tank and then add chargers to make it a moderate touring bike you are well over $30 k, that same bike used if you can find one loses half of its value, I paid 36k tax in for my Bolt!
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: KrazyEd on January 06, 2018, 11:31:10 AM
Two things.
Number One. The range figures that you posted were for the SR WITH power tank
Number Two. My 2013 FX is and has been dirt cheap with progressive.
When I got my 2016 SR used, it was exponentially more expensive than all of my other
bikes combined. Ended up switching SR to a different company. Overall performance
for a 2016 SR 13KW is similar to a Kawasaki Z 650, other than the 650 having a top
speed about 30% higher.
Will try to talk to Progressive again later this year when insurance is due.
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: 42Cliffside on January 07, 2018, 06:17:11 AM
I have paid $0.012/mile over the first 3000 mi @ $0.12/kWh after taxes and fees
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: TheGap on January 10, 2018, 06:57:29 PM
I pay $32 every six months  :)  That gives me crash and theft coverage.
:o :o    so that's $64 a year       :o :o


I pay €174 a year which is already a 75% discount because I also have car insurance with them.
And for that I only have third party liability insurance.
After I asked they said they couldn't give me theft insurance because that would be way too expensive.

... and that was one of the cheapest I could find ... at least where I live.
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: 42Cliffside on January 20, 2018, 05:03:05 PM
Progressive insurance bill renewal came,
Liability to others 25k/50k - $65
uninsured motorist 25kp/50ka - $96
uninsured motorist property damage 10k - $18
Comprehensive -includes total loss - $107
Collision -total loss - $305
$3000 of accessory coverage included

$522/year paid in full State: WA

It's worth it to me to have lots of coverage.


Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: clay.leihy on January 21, 2018, 10:40:29 PM
Insurance rates definitely vary a lot by vehicle, operator, and state. For instance, I have Progressive for my 2015 FX, 52 year old homeowner with a good record living just outside Denver, Colorado:


Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist Bodily Injury: 20k/50k$18.00
Liability: (injury; property) 100k/300k; 50k$12.00
Uninsured Motorist Property Damage:included in collision
Comprehensive:$31.00
Collision:$16.00
Roadside Assistance:$10.00
Accessory coverage: $3,000 (included)included
Total:$87.00
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: KrazyEd on January 22, 2018, 01:52:33 PM
I have had Progressive for many years for my Motorcycles, cars and home.
Presently, I have a 2003 Suzuki SV650, a 2013 Zero FX and a 1985 Kawasaki 750 TURBO with them.
Suzuki is $124, FX is $53, and TURBO is $167. Similar coverage to what Clay posted.
When I picked up my 2016 SR last year, it was going to add $609. I have a good relationship
with my agent but he was not able to get Progressive to budge. They classify it as a " Superbike ".
I pointed out that it was similar to a Kawasaki 650 twin with the exception that it was about 30% SLOWER
than the Kawasaki. Nothing helped. Ended up going with a package for the SR through AARP. Surprisingly,
the other bikes were significantly more expensive with them.
Insurance due soon, so, will be shopping around again.
Title: Re: Doing the Numbers: Fuel Cost Per Mile
Post by: Richard230 on January 24, 2018, 05:16:07 AM
Yesterday I received my yearly insurance premium quote from Progressive.  Since I am located in the SF Bay Area, where lawyers outnumber humans and I own a home, I only have $250,000/$500,000/$100,000 liability insurance, figuring that any other type of accident I can just pay for myself (part of the school of hard knocks). My insurance premium for this policy dropped from $87 a year last year to $71 this year (with an estimated annual miles of 5,000).  Oddly, my 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet that is on the same policy and has an estimated annual distance ridden of 1000 miles, increased from $41 to $54.  That one I don't get.   ???