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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: calamarichris on December 06, 2017, 03:39:53 AM

Title: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: calamarichris on December 06, 2017, 03:39:53 AM
Is it possible to get the same efficiency and range in Sport Mode by taking it easy on the go-stick?

I ask because in SoCal traffic can really fluctuate. On our test ride, I was on the freeway in Eco mode, topped out at 70 in the slow lane with a car a few yards behind me. I couldn't close the throttle to make the jump to lightspeed from Eco mode, so I just had to tuck, hold the throttle wide-open and pray.


And for those of you who've done some research or testing on the subject, how do you have your custom settings and why? Or is there another thread where everyone's already revealed their custom settings?
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: Doug S on December 06, 2017, 05:33:14 AM
Yes. I've been advocating it forever. I leave my bike in Sport mode, exercise some discipline, and I've done enough testing to satisfy myself that I lose no range just from being in Sport mode. And when I need to get around a truck because I've almost missed my offramp, no problem at all.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: calamarichris on December 06, 2017, 05:38:16 AM
Glad to hear it, thanks Doug.

Really looking forward to getting mine in a few weeks and fiddling with it.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: gt13013 on December 06, 2017, 06:42:59 AM
In any case, you can change from one mode to another very quickly while riding.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: mrwilsn on December 06, 2017, 07:04:53 AM
The best way I found to maximize range is to use custom mode.

100% Max Torque
0% Max Regen
50% Max Regen Brake (100%  can get even better range but I have found it's a little aggressive for me)

From there use your wrist to control energy use just like you suggested.  Name of the game is coast as much as possible and brake as little as possible.  If you do have to brake you  can pull the lever just a little and regen will engage but disk brakes will not.  Accelerating hard isn't so bad as long as you use all the momentum you gained from the energy use (i.e. don't accelerate hard then hit the brakes hard).  You will use slightly more energy if you accelerate hard but doing it a little bit won't make a significant difference in range.  High speed kills range more than anything.  For every little bit you reduce speed you will get a huge gain in range.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: MichaelJohn on December 06, 2017, 08:39:06 AM
The only time I use Eco Mode is for slow maneuvering around people (like at the local Cars and Coffee where I can slowly wind my way through the crowd - impossible on a gas bike) and in the wet. I had a nasty fishtail in the rain when i wasn't even accelerating that hard but Sport Mode was too much for the slick road. I've learned my lesson. Other than that it's full juice all the time - that's the reason I bought the bike. I don't really think it lessens my range that much and I don't care if it does.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: ESokoloff on December 06, 2017, 08:59:36 AM
In any case, you can change from one mode to another very quickly while riding.

I don't believe you can change modes when your speed is above 50mph.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: calamarichris on December 06, 2017, 11:42:10 AM
You can indeed change it, but you have to close the throttle completely.
Learned that on my first test ride.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: togo on December 06, 2017, 01:03:58 PM
In any case, you can change from one mode to another very quickly while riding.

I don't believe you can change modes when your speed is above 50mph.

on 2014 SR, you have to drop to 60mph and be throttle neutral before a mode change will take.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: TheGap on December 06, 2017, 03:37:17 PM
The best way I found to maximize range is to use custom mode.

100% Max Torque
[...]
I've noticed that the 100% Max Torque is a bad idea for me if I want to maximize range.
WAAAAY to much fun twisting the throttle.


I'd need a 5 year secluded training in Zen Buddhism at monastery in Nepal before I'll have the necessary discipline to go easy on the throttle with a Zero
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: domingo3 on December 06, 2017, 08:52:28 PM
There is discussion of this in several different threads.  Lots of people, including me, use 100% torque, 0% coasting regen, 100% brake regen and no limit on max speed.

100% torque - max fun and ability to accelerate out of a situation, if needed
0% coasting regen - coasting is more efficient than regen
100% brake regen - regen is more efficient than friction brakes ; also saves wear on brake pads
max speed - no limit to prevent situation as described in OP

These custom settings will be more efficient as long as you go easy on the throttle.

I never use sport mode and only use eco when I want to limit torque in slippery situations.  It's quicker to switch to eco than it is to open up the app and change the custom torque.  I wish we could change the settings for the other two modes.  I'd make eco with 0% coasting regen and max speed - just limiting the torque.  Some people use the custom setting to limit top speed for a pseudo cruise control.  I don't do this because I never go on long rides at constant speed and prefer to have the extra reserve if I need it.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: Richard230 on December 06, 2017, 08:58:27 PM
There is discussion of this in several different threads.  Lots of people, including me, use 100% torque, 0% coasting regen, 100% brake regen and no limit on max speed.

100% torque - max fun and ability to accelerate out of a situation, if needed
0% coasting regen - coasting is more efficient than regen
100% brake regen - regen is more efficient than friction brakes ; also saves wear on brake pads
max speed - no limit to prevent situation as described in OP

These custom settings will be more efficient as long as you go easy on the throttle.

I never use sport mode and only use eco when I want to limit torque in slippery situations.  It's quicker to switch to eco than it is to open up the app and change the custom torque.  I wish we could change the settings for the other two modes.  I'd make eco with 0% coasting regen and max speed - just limiting the torque.  Some people use the custom setting to limit top speed for a pseudo cruise control.  I don't do this because I never go on long rides at constant speed and prefer to have the extra reserve if I need it.

That is the way I have my custom mode set.  Yesterday I rode 105 miles on 75% of my battery capacity at speeds that varied between 40 and 60 mph, with a lot of up and down riding in the Santa Cruz Mountains and along the Coast Highway.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: JaimeC on December 06, 2017, 09:21:38 PM
My custom mode used 100% regen at all times.  I can ride the twisties and hardly ever touch the brakes.  I like the fact that I'm not scrubbing off kinetic energy by turning it into heat and black dust, but rather putting the unused energy back into the battery so it can be used later.

Did you know that regen only kicks in when you roll the throttle forward to the stop?  If you don't, the bike will coast without regen so you don't have to get that deceleration if you don't want it.
Title: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: originalspacerob on December 06, 2017, 11:57:19 PM
Ive ridden home from work in Sport mode and can average the same range being light on the throttle. Its a little more work because it is more touchy. What I have been doing is using custom mode to give me a little more excelleration, more coasting on regen but full max speed if needed. That seems to work well in situations like your talking about

Settings are
Max speed:104
Torque: 40%
Regen: 66%
Regen brake 100%


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: calamarichris on December 07, 2017, 12:37:17 AM
My custom mode used 100% regen at all times.  I can ride the twisties and hardly ever touch the brakes.  I like the fact that I'm not scrubbing off kinetic energy by turning it into heat and black dust, but rather putting the unused energy back into the battery so it can be used later.

Did you know that regen only kicks in when you roll the throttle forward to the stop?  If you don't, the bike will coast without regen so you don't have to get that deceleration if you don't want it.

That's really cool and I'm glad to hear it! I was wondering about the wiggle-room on the throttle to engage the regen, but you put it into words more elegantly than I could.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: MostlyBonkers on December 07, 2017, 03:54:40 AM
I used to use eco mode in wet weather when I was running on the stock Kendra tyres my DS came with. They were rubbish and were actually quite dangerous when the were nearly worn out.

With good tyres and more miles under my belt I still occasionally use Eco mode when I need maximum range. The reduced torque and throttle response encourages steady riding. It's boring though and gets switched back to custom as soon as possible. I never use sport mode because I like full throttle-off regen.  It helps with cornering, by the way, in much the same way as entering a corner in a lower gear does on an ICE bike.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: ultrarnr on December 07, 2017, 03:58:52 PM
My vote is on using self-restraint. The muted acceleration with Eco mode means you may not be able to accelerate away from a dangerous situation leaving you with one less option in dealing with the situation. The potential for extra range is not worth the risk.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: Richard230 on December 07, 2017, 09:15:07 PM
My "eco" mode is my right wrist.   ;)
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: JaimeC on December 07, 2017, 11:58:13 PM
Basically, when I ride around town, I use my "Custom" mode which is 100% for both torque and regen.  I get acceleration when I need it, and I don't have to use the brakes very often.  HOWEVER, when I hit the highway for my daily commute, I switch to "Eco" mode and use that like a "Poor Man's Cruise Control."  The speed limit here in New York may be 55, but unless you're doing 70 or better you're more than likely to get run off the road.

So, I put it into Eco mode (which still gives me more than enough acceleration to pull into traffic from the entrance lane) and just hold the "throttle" WFO till I reach my exit, at which point I thumb it back into "Custom" mode to decelerate on the exit ramp and back on to surface streets.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: Shadow on December 10, 2017, 02:55:38 AM
So, I put it into Eco mode (which still gives me more than enough acceleration to pull into traffic from the entrance lane) and just hold the "throttle" WFO till I reach my exit, at which point I thumb it back into "Custom" mode to decelerate on the exit ramp and back on to surface streets.
I guess that maybe WOT with a speed limiter is less efficient for long rides than moderating the throttle.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: gyrocyclist on December 10, 2017, 05:55:22 AM
In any case, you can change from one mode to another very quickly while riding.

I don't believe you can change modes when your speed is above 50mph.

on 2014 SR, you have to drop to 60mph and be throttle neutral before a mode change will take.
2016 SR, same experience.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: togo on December 11, 2017, 11:55:10 PM
So, I put it into Eco mode (which still gives me more than enough acceleration to pull into traffic from the entrance lane) and just hold the "throttle" WFO till I reach my exit, at which point I thumb it back into "Custom" mode to decelerate on the exit ramp and back on to surface streets.
I guess that maybe WOT with a speed limiter is less efficient for long rides than moderating the throttle.

Well, using a speed limiting mode will necessarily mean more and less thrust as you go up or down hill.  A throttle lock will hold the thrust steadier, but you might still have to adjust it if the hills are too steep.
Title: Re: Eco-Mode vs. Self-Restraint
Post by: grmarks on December 15, 2017, 06:50:26 PM
I only use custom mode with everything set to the max. Then I use self-restraint in the wet or if on a long ride.
ECO mode has no magic to it, if you don't put much power in, you can go further. I have done 200km on my 2015 SR in custom mode and self-restraint on the highway. Around town I can get 260km, you just have to go slow.
I like to know that I can have full power if something unexpected happens, and it always does sooner or later.