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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Richard230 on November 12, 2017, 05:53:55 AM
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I picked up the 2018 Zero S, with Power Tank, that I ordered last month from Zero's San Francisco dealer, SF Moto. It didn't take long to arrive, as it showed up on their doorstep a week ago, but I had ordered a touring windshield and a top box luggage rack and it took a while for those accessories to catch up with the bike and get installed by the shop. Attached is a photo of my Zero and their bike storage area (waiting for service and/or parts) taken just after I had received the "orientation" spiel and right before I took off for home, via a jammed freeway that required some easy lane-splitting.
The price for the bike was $17,883, plus another $2,000 for sales tax and various local and state "fees" - including a $23 fee for filing the bike's registration with the DMV electronically. ???
The only hassle was that it took about 30 minutes and a number of tries to pair my cell phone to the bike as there seemed to be an issue with Bluetooth. But eventually, they had success, the app is now working properly and I was able to adjust the "custom" settings to my favorite positions. Fully charged the app says that there is 15.312 kWh (2 kWh more than my 2014 S showed when fully charged) available in the pack. Voltage shows 116 volts. Maximum charger draw from my 124 volt wall outlet was 12.24 amps, right before the system shut down.
Comparing the bike with my 2014 S, with PT (which I gave to my daughter), it feels heavier when pushed around and when lifting it off of the side stand. The ride is firmer, but more controlled then the Fast Ace suspension on the 2014. However, I have yet to adjust the factory settings to accommodate my slightly lighter weight than the 180 pounds that it is adjusted for at the factory. Plus, my experience has been that all suspensions are stiff when new and tend to get softer as they break-in after some time. In general, I get a feeling that the new bike is more robust than my old one. However, it does make a "growling" (that I hadn't heard since riding my 2012 Zero S) noise when first started from a dead stop and seems a little more noisy when running then my 2014 model.
I am not too thrilled about the silver color. It just doesn't stand out like my 2012's red and my 2014's yellow colors. Plus, the color looks kind of flat and is not very shiny. But I can live with that as I don't look at the color when riding and tend to wear reflective gear, anyway.
I ordered the top box luggage rack and you should be aware that it does not come with the Givi top box base plate, so I'll have to order one of those from Revzilla so that I can mount one of my two Givi top boxes to the rack. I assume that you get the plate when you order the top box. ???
The seat hasn't gotten any softer, so the Air Hawk pad will be going back on.
I do like the new windshield design. It has an adjustable deflector attached to the section of the windshield just below its top. However, it can not be raised above the top of the shield, just the angle and distance from the main windshield can be adjusted slightly. Check out the photo for its looks. Attachment hardware is the same as the Zero shield that was on my 2014.
While in the shop I bought a set of EBC front brake pads for the 2014 bike. The pads were in stock and only cost $32, which I thought was pretty reasonable, considering that the Zero pads were listed for $76 and needed to be ordered. However, the passenger foot peg that I needed was a real bargain at only $4. ;D Maybe I should have bought a case of them ;)
So that is what I have to say for now. While the new model is nice, it really is not a big upgrade from the 2014 S, when it comes to riding the bike. The suspension is better, the brakes now have ABS and a few other minor changes have been made, but the riding experience and features are pretty much the same - or so it seems to me.
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I forgot to mention that the shop offered me an extended warranty by a private insurance company (not Zero) that would extend the chassis warranty (not sure if it would cover the batteries) for another 5 years. I thought the price of $676 was fair, but I declined.
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Have you noticed the range to be increased over your 2014?
The 2014 had a 11.4 monolith + 2.8 power tank for 14.2 kWh
The 2018 has a 14.4 monolith + 3.6 power tank for 18.0 kWh
(edit: the 14.4 only comes in the SR I forgot
2018 S has a 13.0 monolith + 3.6 power tank for 16.6 kWh)
So 3.8 kWh over 14.2 means you should have over 25% more range than before!
Wow the 2018 (SR) monolith alone, meaning you can carry a charge tank, has more energy than the 2014 did with the biggest battery and the power tank included! You can get more range now, and be able to charge it fast too! Over 25% improvement in the batteries in 4 years is very nice!
(edit: the 2018 S has 2.4 kWh over the 2014. So 2.4 over 14.2 is 17.2 % greater range. Still very good!
Also don't forget to update your profile now, your newest bike isn't a 2016 BMW 1200RS anymore! :)
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Here are photos of my new bike.
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Congrat Richard!
I also occasionally have difficulty with the bluetooth on my 2017 SR. I noticed that " it appear" that when i take my phone to 1 or 2 foot from the tank the phone not detect and connect easyer.. but this might be coincicense only..
Doc
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There appeared only be Bluetooth trouble when first pairing the new bike with my (seldom used) cell phone. Once the initial paring was completed, it now works fine.
A few other random comments from an inspection of my new bike last night (something that I do with every new motorcycle I buy before putting it into daily use): Tires were properly inflated at the factory to the specified air pressure. The front tire is only 6 months old, but the rear tire was manufactured 2 years ago.
There is a handy small space for carrying stuff, like a tubeless tire plugger and some CO2 cartridges, under the rear of the seat. However, the seat is so difficult to reattach due to the mass of large orange wires at the front of the seat (which may be the result of the installation of the Power Tank) that I decided to forget using this space and hope I never have to remove the rear seat again. ;) Photo of orange snakes attached.
I checked the drive belt tension as set by the factory. It measured (edit) 40 kg. Zero's recommended tension range is 25 kg to 76.5 kg
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Here is a photo of the under seat potential small storage area.
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Congrats on your new motorcycle, there is a mod to make the seat quick release.
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I checked the drive belt tension as set by the factory. It measured 70 kg. Zero's recommended tension range is 25 kg to 76.5 kg
Hi Richard, congrats on your new Zero and your lucky daughter too!
I just checked my 2014 manual and section 5.15 shows belt tension should be between 20kg and 30kg.
Is the range you mentioned for the wider belt on the 2018?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I checked the drive belt tension as set by the factory. It measured 70 kg. Zero's recommended tension range is 25 kg to 76.5 kg
Hi Richard, congrats on your new Zero and your lucky daughter too!
I just checked my 2014 manual and section 5.15 shows belt tension should be between 20kg and 30kg.
Is the range you mentioned for the wider belt on the 2018?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes. That is the belt tension specification in the 2018 Zero owner's manual.
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Congrats on your new motorcycle, there is a mod to make the seat quick release.
The problem is not the attachment screws (which come out easily enough) but with the installation of the seat under the "tank" area. It is very difficult to move forward enough to align the attachment screws with the fixed nuts on the seat base, because of the nest of wires in this area that conflict with the front and sides of the seat. The new seat attachment screws require a T45 Torx bit to loosen, BTW.
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> I picked up the 2018 Zero S, with Power Tank, that I ordered last month from Zero's San Francisco dealer, SF Moto. ...
Congrats!
> The price for the bike was $17,883, plus another $2,000 for sales tax and various local and state "fees" - including a $23 fee for filing the bike's registration with the DMV electronically. ??? ...
Thanks for those details! Are you getting any government incentives?
> I am not too thrilled about the silver color. It just doesn't stand out like my 2012's red and my 2014's yellow colors. Plus, the color looks kind of flat and is not very shiny. But I can live with that as I don't look at the color when riding and tend to wear reflective gear, anyway. ...
I have some 4" red vinyl striping you can have if you want to spice it up : - ) PM me be coordinate if you want to, I'm near you. How do you feel about Rabbit and Polenta?
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> I picked up the 2018 Zero S, with Power Tank, that I ordered last month from Zero's San Francisco dealer, SF Moto. ...
Congrats!
> The price for the bike was $17,883, plus another $2,000 for sales tax and various local and state "fees" - including a $23 fee for filing the bike's registration with the DMV electronically. ??? ...
Thanks for those details! Are you getting any government incentives?
> I am not too thrilled about the silver color. It just doesn't stand out like my 2012's red and my 2014's yellow colors. Plus, the color looks kind of flat and is not very shiny. But I can live with that as I don't look at the color when riding and tend to wear reflective gear, anyway. ...
I have some 4" red vinyl striping you can have if you want to spice it up : - ) PM me be coordinate if you want to, I'm near you. How do you feel about Rabbit and Polenta?
I plan to apply for the California rebate, but right now the 2018 Zeros are not on their application website, which only goes up to the 2017 models. I assume that the federal IRS credit has been deleted by Congress. ??? I'll pass on the stick-on striping. I have something like that in my garage, but I don't like stick-on striping as it eventually comes off - except when you want to remove it, then it sticks like crazy. ::) But thanks for the offer.
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Zero's recommended tension range is 25 kg to 76.5 kg
Are you sure? I think it is 20-30kg. 70kg is far too much.
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Zero's recommended tension range is 25 kg to 76.5 kg
Are you sure? I think it is 20-30kg. 70kg is far too much.
Here is what the 2018 Zero manual says:
1. Remove the key from the ignition switch.
2. Press the Tension Tester steadily to the non-cogged
side of the belt, half of the distance between the
motor-driven sprocket and rear wheel drive sprocket.
The “lip†of the tester will lead the tester on to the belt.
3. Slowly increase the pressure on the tester, until you
hear a clicking sound. Do not increase the pressure
after the tester has clicked.
4. Remove the tester carefully from the belt. Avoid rough
movements of the tester, as this would change the
results of the measurement.
5. Adjust drive belt tension if the measurement is outside
the recommended range.
Belt Pitch Recommended Tension Range
11 mm 25 kg to 76.5 kg
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Zero's recommended tension range is 25 kg to 76.5 kg
Are you sure? I think it is 20-30kg. 70kg is far too much.
Here is what the 2018 Zero manual says:
1. Remove the key from the ignition switch.
2. Press the Tension Tester steadily to the non-cogged
side of the belt, half of the distance between the
motor-driven sprocket and rear wheel drive sprocket.
The “lip†of the tester will lead the tester on to the belt.
3. Slowly increase the pressure on the tester, until you
hear a clicking sound. Do not increase the pressure
after the tester has clicked.
4. Remove the tester carefully from the belt. Avoid rough
movements of the tester, as this would change the
results of the measurement.
5. Adjust drive belt tension if the measurement is outside
the recommended range.
Belt Pitch Recommended Tension Range
11 mm 25 kg to 76.5 kg
Wow, that's a huge difference to the 2016 model:
Remove the key from the ignition switch.
2. Press the Tension Tester steadily to the non-cogged
side of the belt, half of the distance between the
motor-driven sprocket and rear wheel drive sprocket.
The “lip†of the tester will lead the tester on to the belt.
3. Slowly increase the pressure on the tester, until you
hear a clicking sound. Do not increase the pressure
after the tester has clicked.
4. Remove the tester carefully from the belt. Avoid rough
movements of the tester, as this would change the
results of the measurement. The measurement should
be in the range of 20-30 kg.
Probably the newer, wider belt on the 2017+ models...
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Zero's recommended tension range is 25 kg to 76.5 kg
Are you sure? I think it is 20-30kg. 70kg is far too much.
Here is what the 2018 Zero manual says:
1. Remove the key from the ignition switch.
2. Press the Tension Tester steadily to the non-cogged
side of the belt, half of the distance between the
motor-driven sprocket and rear wheel drive sprocket.
The “lip†of the tester will lead the tester on to the belt.
3. Slowly increase the pressure on the tester, until you
hear a clicking sound. Do not increase the pressure
after the tester has clicked.
4. Remove the tester carefully from the belt. Avoid rough
movements of the tester, as this would change the
results of the measurement.
5. Adjust drive belt tension if the measurement is outside
the recommended range.
Belt Pitch Recommended Tension Range
11 mm 25 kg to 76.5 kg
link to 2018 manual: http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2018/2018-Zero-Owners-Manual-S-SR-DS-DSR.pdf
6.18 or page 92 of the PDF
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I went for a ride today and didn't see any difference in range over the 10-mile ride that I take every week. The 10 miles of suburban and expressway streets took 6% of the battery capacity - according to the display. That is the same as my 2014 Zero S when it was new. After almost 4 years and 350 charges, the 2014 Zero was doing the same trip using 10%, but that is starting out at a 98% charge - as far as it would charge, so probably an 8% pack usage.
I learned today from a freeway ride that the Zero "Touring Windshield" has a moveable deflector mounted to the top of the shield. It works great at smoothing the air flow over my helmet when in its lowest position, but raising it to its highest position resulted in much more noise and buffeting. I might add that I posted photos of my new bike on a BMW forum and that windshield's looks really got dumped on - especially by Italians. ::)
When I returned home I was thinking that my belt might be too tight. So I checked it while it was still warm and discovered that I had misread the tension tester scale yesterday. I was reading the pound scale and not the kilogram scale. :-[ The tension was set at the factory at 40 kg, which is in the middle of their tension recommendation. Giving it the finger test as I used to do with my 2014 S it certainly feels tight. I sure hope that the belt, as tensioned, isn't putting too much stress on the drive-line bearings.
The groaning sound when starting from a stop sure sounds like the motor is straining, even when in "sport" mode. My 2014 S didn't make that noise. ???
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I went for a ride today and didn't see any difference in range over the 10-mile ride that I take every week. The 10 miles of suburban and expressway streets took 6% of the battery capacity - according to the display. That is the same as my 2014 Zero S when it was new. After almost 4 years and 350 charges, the 2014 Zero was doing the same trip using 10%, but that is starting out at a 98% charge - as far as it would charge, so probably an 8% pack usage.
I learned today from a freeway ride that the Zero "Touring Windshield" has a moveable deflector mounted to the top of the shield. It works great at smoothing the air flow over my helmet when in its lowest position, but raising it to its highest position resulted in much more noise and buffeting. I might add that I posted photos of my new bike on a BMW forum and that windshield's looks really got dumped on - especially by Italians. ::)
When I returned home I was thinking that my belt might be too tight. So I checked it while it was still warm and discovered that I had misread the tension tester scale yesterday. I was reading the pound scale and not the kilogram scale. :-[ The tension was set at the factory at 40 kg, which is in the middle of their tension recommendation. Giving it the finger test as I used to do with my 2014 S it certainly feels tight. I sure hope that the belt, as tensioned, isn't putting too much stress on the drive-line bearings.
The groaning sound when starting from a stop sure sounds like the motor is straining, even when in "sport" mode. My 2014 S didn't make that noise. ???
On my 2017 SR that is using the same belt as your Zero the pitch is lower note and i like that. It make the frame to resonate from different locations than the 2016- witch had higher pitch, making a more agressive sound than the HF chime of the 2016- 132-30T..
Doc
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I hadn't thought about that. You may be right. The wider belt and greater tension than used on my 2014 S might be the reason for the "groaning" noise that I am noticing. Makes sense. ;)
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The biggest difference between my 2014 S and my 2018 S is (by far) the Showa suspension. While performance feels about the same, the much better Showa suspension, compared with the previous Fast Ace components, really makes an improvement in the riding experience. As set up by the factory, the suspension is firm but compliant. Better than most motorcycles that I have owned - including my 2016 BMW R1200RS, with its "semi-active" electronic-adjusted (Sachs) suspension. But, with all of the various adjustment dials to play with I just had to spin a few last night. ::)
Adjusting the Showa suspension damping dials is really easy. Much easier than it was on the Fast Ace components, primarily because they are easier to access. And I bet that they actually perform some useful function. ::) However, the only tricky adjustment issue is changing the preload on the rear shock. While the ramp preload adjustment system is much easier to use than the screw system used on the Fast Ace shock, it would have been really nice if Zero provided an adjusting wrench with the bike - or at least sold one as an accessory. Fortunately, I have about 10 shock adjusting wrenches in my tool kit and, after trying several, discovered that an Ohlins shock preload adjustment spanner worked perfectly to also adjust the preload on the Showa shock's spring. The only problem that I had was that I needed the shock handle to be longer to provide enough leverage to get past the bumps in the adjustment ramps. So I found a hollow metal tube to place over the handle to extend its leverage and was able to easily reduce the preload slightly to accommodate my lighter weight. :)
Here is another tip: If you want to check the movement of your front suspension, you can place a plastic zip-tie around one of the fork tubes, next to the fork seal, go for a ride and you will be able to see how far down the suspension compresses, to make sure that the movement stays within an acceptable range. What I do for the rear shock is to spray the shock shaft with silicone lubricant. After riding around a while you can look at the shock shaft and there will be a ring around it (like in your bathtub after taking a bath) and that will give you an idea how much movement the rear suspension is experiencing. I like to keep the movement just above the nylon bumper, which will provide some additional cushioning should you hit a big pothole, or the equivalent.
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Here is a comment about the brakes: The front brake on the 2018 is about 25% stronger than the Nissan brake on the 2014. However, the rear brake on the 2018 is about three times stronger than the very weak rear brake of the 2014. :)
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Here is another difference between the 2014 and 2018 models: I live at the top of a hill and on the 2014 S the bike's regen would turn on and off on the way down the hill when the battery pack was at 100%. This no longer happens with the 2018 S. I can ride the brakes lightly all the way down the hill with the battery pack topped off and regen maxes out on the display without any regen cutout. That is a nice improvement. :)
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My S will be fully paid off in April 2019. That's when I'll consider trading it in (it'll already be a year out of warranty) and I can't wait to see what improvements will be available by then. Unlike some of the comments I've seen in here, I have been very impressed with the annual progress I've seen in these bikes, yet the prices pretty much remain unchanged year to year (the exception being the new 14.4 kWh batteries in the "R" models bumping their prices slightly).
I'm just keeping my fingers crossed they have some "exciting" colors for 2019, not the flat out BORING palette they adopted for 2018.
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One odd thing that happened last night was when I pulled the charger plug, the green charging light stayed on, as did the dash display. I didn't notice this until this afternoon. When I turned the ignition on and then off, everything went blank, as it is supposed to be when unplugged. ??? I checked the condition of the batteries using the Zero app and they showed 15.138 kWh and a 100% charge. Cell balance ranged from 1mv to 3mv. So I don't know what was going on but apparently the dash staying on all night while the bike was not plugged in, didn't seem to hurt anything.
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Today I took my first long ride. I rode for 90 miles, about 1/3 of which was at 65 mph in 40 degree temperatures. It hit the high 30's once I got off the freeway, but then later warmed up to 50 degrees F, after climbing about 2000 feet in elevation. The Zero ran flawlessly the entire way and got me home showing a 23% charge left in the battery pack. When I plugged in the charger, my Kill A Watt showed the draw at the wall as 1250 watts. The pack is now at 50% and is pulling 1300 watts. Right before the charger shuts off I expect to see 1450 watts, based upon previous experience.
I checked the cell balance when stopped for breakfast at Alice's Restaurant and the pack was at 50%. Balance ranged from 8 to 10 mV. Unlike my 2014 , when the ignition is turned back on there was no drop in the displayed battery charge.
Riding the Zero on deserted mountain back roads is really a lot of fun. I like the silence and that I don't need to pick the right gear when going around a tight uphill bend. My only complaint is that nothing on the bike gets hot enough to warm my hands when I get off. ;)
It could be my imagination, but it sounds like the "goaning" noise that I hear upon starting from a stop is decreasing a bit. Maybe, as Dr. Bass suggested, the noise is caused by the wider drive belt and it will quiet down once the belt breaks-in a bit. ???
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Last night my bike finished charging from a 120V, 20 amp, household circuit in 10 hours after that 90-mile ride described above. During this 10 hours of charging, 13.2 kWh of electricity (at 15 cents per kWh) were consumed. Fully charged, the battery pack is showing 15.18 kWh available. If the battery had been fully discharged (something that I prefer to avoid, of course), the power consumed from my home electrical outlet would have been, according to my calculations, about 17.2 kWh, costing $2.58 USD.
With gas prices increasing by leaps and bounds, especially in California, I am not complaining about the $2 electricity cost to travel 90 miles. :) If I had been riding one of my other gas-powered motorcycles, the cost would have been around $6.75, based upon current gas prices - which will surely increase next year, with no end in sight. ;)
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My bike developed the dreaded front brake squeal today. When braking to a complete stop, during the last few feet, I get a loud squeal and shutter. :o It has helped to reduce the squeal by using brake parts cleaner to clean the brake disc, but I haven't managed to completely eliminate the problem yet. I have no idea why this has just started after 200 miles of riding. ??? That distance of riding should have fully bedded-in the brake pads. I never had this issue with the Nissan front brake on my 2014.
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Not uncommon with a semi-metallic pad on a stainless rotor. Very common on my late 80s BMW K bike. It happened most often when you use the brakes gently to slow, rather than full on hard to stop. Apparently the gentle application allows the pads to glaze over and thats what causes the squealing. If that is what is happening here, a couple of HARD applications of the brakes should break the "glaze" and silence them for awhile.
Since I use regen to slow this hasn't (yet) happened to me.
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Not uncommon with a semi-metallic pad on a stainless rotor. Very common on my late 80s BMW K bike. It happened most often when you use the brakes gently to slow, rather than full on hard to stop. Apparently the gentle application allows the pads to glaze over and thats what causes the squealing. If that is what is happening here, a couple of HARD applications of the brakes should break the "glaze" and silence them for awhile.
Since I use regen to slow this hasn't (yet) happened to me.
Having owned several BMW's including an R80, I know what you are talking about. I also know how to bed-in brake pads, having done this to close to 100 pads over the years. Neither my 2012 nor my 2014 Zero made any noise when braking, ever. Interestingly, I only hear the noise and feel the vibration when braking hard to a complete stop. If I brake easily, or back off on the brake lever right before I come to a complete stop, I don't have an issue. Only when I squeeze hard on the front brake lever and come to a complete stop to the issue rear its head.
As soon as I started having this problem today, I immediately began braking hard at each stop in the hope of cleaning off any glaze that might have built up on the brake pads. But I get the feeling that the problem is vibration from the brake pads, not glaze. Perhaps they are a little loose in the calipers, or the anti-rattle spring on the top of the pads is getting weak or is defective. Anyway, I'll keep trying different things to stop the squeal and maybe I will also keep an eye out for after-market brake pads. I just bought a set of EBC front brake pads for the 2014 S that I gave my daughter and their price was half the cost of the stock Zero replacement pads. :)
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After you're pretty sure the brakes have bedded-in, then hit them with a blast of water from a pressure washer. Worked well for me and I never had squeel again, only the occasional squeek.
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After you're pretty sure the brakes have bedded-in, then hit them with a blast of water from a pressure washer. Worked well for me and I never had squeel again, only the occasional squeek.
Thanks for the suggestion, Shadow. That is something that I have tried before and it sometimes works. Right now I have cleaned the discs with brake cleaner and a rag. If the screeching (not a squeak or squeal), continues, I'll give it a shot of soapy water and a blast from a pressure washer. And if that doesn't work, I'll remove the pads and clean them with emery paper on a sheet of glass to remove any built-up glaze. And if that doesn't work, new pads will be in order. ;)
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Well, I saw Richard's new Zero on Thanksgiving.
Very crisp and clean and new!
Silver color could grow on me.
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Well, I saw Richard's new Zero on Thanksgiving.
Very crisp and clean and new!
Silver color could grow on me.
That was a real coincidence. We met each other going in opposite directions in the middle of Golden Gate Park on Thanksgiving Day. I was taking a more scenic route to get home from my daughter's house after having a Thanksgiving meal, instead of nasty 19th Avenue.
I gave my daughter my 2014 S, with PT. Attached is a photo with both of us sitting on that bike while testing out the suspension to see how it handles a passenger. Other than that bike only wanting to charge to 92% before turning off, the yellow Zero is running great and she can finally take her daughter on electric motorcycle rides.
She still has her 2012 S and it is running great. Her husband seems to have fixed the stalling issue by installing the new Motenergy circuit board, per the instructions posted by David Walsh.
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Yesterday I rode 105 miles on 75% (showing 25% on the display) of my battery capacity at speeds that varied between 40 and 60 mph, with a lot of up and down riding in the Santa Cruz Mountains and riding at 60 mph against a headwind on the Coast Highway. Recharging took 10 hours at between 1250 and 1450 watts (the power draw goes up as the battery charge goes up). Total power consumed at the wall outlet was exactly 13.00 kWh. And this time when I pulled the plug, the display and green charging light went out. ???
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Here is another observation: When my 2014 S, with PT was new, the estimated range on the display when fully charged and first started up in the morning, would show a range of 180 miles. After riding the 37 miles to my daughter's home, the display typically showed 69% and estimated range as 105 miles. However my 2018 S, with PT, shows an initial estimated range of only 130 miles in the morning. After riding to my daughter's home like I did today, the display showed 69% and the estimated range was 87 miles. So it appears to me that Zero has become more conservative with their range estimate - while their marketing range claims have become more optimistic. ::)
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Zero changed the algorithm in 2015 so that 0% still gave you a small amount of power. No more stopping with 10% still showing as some 2014 owners reported. I have only taken my 2015 SR to 0% once, and on that occasion, it jumped from 1% to 0% in 1/2 the expected time, but still was able to ride it home several hundred meters. I have found the range prediction to be pretty spot on. Its a change for the better.
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No doubt I have mentioned this before, but just to memorialize the battery capacity of the 2018 Zero S with Power Tank, which is claimed to have a nominal 16.6 kWh, I stuck around my bike, with the Zero app turned on, while it was finishing charging last night, after a 76-mile ride that took the battery down to 47%, according to the dash display. Just before the charger turned off, the app was showing 15.132 kWh, 132 amp-hours, 116 volts and cell balance had dropped to 2-3 mV. Total power draw from the wall was 8.98 kWh to bring the pack from 47% to 100%.
That is a 2 kWh increase over the same model with PT sold by Zero in 2014. It will be interesting hear of a similar analysis for the total pack capacity of a 2018 SR with Power Tank that uses the new battery chemistry.
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The MBB firmware installed on my 2018 S is: revision 1536, board revision 125, Model W. ???
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Brake Noise:
I have an embarrassing issue with a noisy front brake. When I come to a complete stop the front brake makes a loud screeching noise, like fingernails on a blackboard, but only during the final two feet of the stop. At the same time there is a high frequency vibration felt through the handlebars. When braking hard or easy, there is no noise or vibration until just before coming to a complete stop. This noise started about the time that the pads broke-in, around 250 miles.
So in an effort to correct the issue, I removed the caliper and brake pads, cleaned all of the parts, including the brake disc, with brake cleaner. I then sanded the brake pads with 220 grit emery paper on a glass plate and reassembled everything. While inspecting the brake pads, I noticed that they appear to be 100% sintered metal pads and looked like they had various random small holes (which looked to me like manufacturing defects) in the pads and the surface of the pads looked like they were rusting. ???
Today I took my bike out for a ride and tried braking after the work described above. The noise and vibration had diminished somewhat, but was still there. However, I did observe that there was no brake noise when I got the pads hot by dragging the front brake down a long grade. When I did that, braking to a stop was completely silent. My conclusion is that the metallic pads are not completely compatible with the disc material (or they are defective in some way) and it is likely that the ultimate solution will be to replace the pads with ones that are semi-metallic and a little less aggressive. I now have about 800 miles on my bike and if anything changes as the miles pile up you will be the first to know. ;)
I did visit my local auto accessory store and picked up a spray can of Gunk "Brake Squeal Treatment", which I thought was the type of chemical that you coat the back of the pads with, but this stuff says to spray it on the brake disc. Not being a fan of spraying anything on my disc, I decided to pass on giving this can of "Squeal Medic" a try. ???
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Thanks for keeping this thread going Richard. It's interesting and useful to read about your experiences with your new bike.
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Thanks for keeping this thread going Richard. It's interesting and useful to read about your experiences with your new bike.
Well, it is a tough job, but somebody has to do it. ;) Especially since I appear to be the only person on the forum who has bought a 2018 Zero so far. I might add that if there is any obvious difference between a 2017 Zero S and a 2018 Zero S, other than the color, I haven't noticed it so far. ???
Getting back to the front brake: So far my brake caliper cleaning work described above has been working to stop the squealing of my brakes during the last two feet of a stop. However, as a backup plan, yesterday I visited my dealer and bought a set of front brake pads for a 2017 Zero in case the squeal returned. (I knew their brake pad charts wouldn' cover the 2018 models yet and they wouldn't want to sell me a brake part that was not specifically for my model, so I asked for pads to fit a 2017 S, as the brake calipers appear to be the same, based upon my visual inspection.)
The brake pads that I bought, because they were the only ones in stock, were EBC "Double HH" sintered pads, part number FA209/2HH. The pads cost $46. These pads are more aggressive than I would have preferred, as they are designed for racing, but I am willing to give them a try, if needed. And it is likely that I will need them some day, anyway, as the original brake pads that came with my 2014 Zero were starting to look somewhat worn at only 12K miles. ;)
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Guess what I received from my daughter as a Christmas gift?. ??? It was designed to go on a helmet, but I wasn't quite ready for that, so I found another location for my gift. ;)
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Gratulations on your new bike Richard and thank you for posting these impressions!
My only disappointment is that I'm still waiting on my SR with power tank and I made my deposit on the last weekend of November. Bought my bike in San Diego (I'm in Carlsbad) and even though I just paid it in full yesterday, they're still telling me 1-2 weeks. At least they let me take their demo S out for a spin.
The anticipation was pretty delicious the first two weeks, but I'm ready to get the bike now.
Really appreciate living vicariously through you on this thread.
If you don't like the asphalt-camouflage silver, it's only about $500 to get the tank cover and fenders in any color you want. My bike is white, but I also ordered the red bodywork and was told it's not too tricky to swap them back n forth.
Ride safe and congratulations on the new bike, and especially on the awesome wife and daughter! Most girls wouldn't ride their own bike, and most mothers would second that. You chose and good one and turned out a good one.
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Gratulations on your new bike Richard and thank you for posting these impressions!
My only disappointment is that I'm still waiting on my SR with power tank and I made my deposit on the last weekend of November. Bought my bike in San Diego (I'm in Carlsbad) and even though I just paid it in full yesterday, they're still telling me 1-2 weeks. At least they let me take their demo S out for a spin.
The anticipation was pretty delicious the first two weeks, but I'm ready to get the bike now.
Really appreciate living vicariously through you on this thread.
If you don't like the asphalt-camouflage silver, it's only about $500 to get the tank cover and fenders in any color you want. My bike is white, but I also ordered the red bodywork and was told it's not too tricky to swap them back n forth.
Ride safe and congratulations on the new bike, and especially on the awesome wife and daughter! Most girls wouldn't ride their own bike, and most mothers would second that. You chose and good one and turned out a good one.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, calamarichris. I hope you receive your new SR soon and will be joining me posting about the new 2018 Zero models. :) Happy New Year! :)
Unfortunately I am a widower, as my wife passed away from an illness 35 years ago. However my daughter has been riding since 1987 (her first motorcycle was a 1987 Yamaha SRX250TC), as has her husband (on various 1985 Kawasaki KZ550 models). However, her two daughters have no real interesting in riding motorcycles, or even driving a car, for that matter. ??? They would prefer to travel via the internet. :o
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Buy all the colors and do a calico bike. ::)
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Buy all the colors and do a calico bike. ::)
I believe the operable term is Harlequin bike, and it's not too bad of an idea, come to think of it...
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/020_001.jpg)
I'm sorry Richard. Glad you got an awesome daughter to ride with. Some of the best times I've had on a motorcycle (or alive for that matter) have been with my Pa on road trips. He was always interested in getting a bike, but his wife finally let him get one when a texting teenaged idiot destroyed his beloved Pontiac Fiero on the 405 freeway.
(http://www.calamarichris.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/090504-pasmiling.jpg)
Keep us abreast, and if you can get some pics of you guys out on a ride, I'd love to see them!
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Keep us abreast, and if you can get some pics of you guys out on a ride, I'd love to see them!
Here is a picture of both of us in my daughter's garage sitting on the the 2014S that I gave her. It is tough for both of us to go riding at the same time due to my daughter's busy schedule.
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Here is a picture of my daughter and I with our Zeros occupying a single space together in a restaurant parking lot.
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That's awesome, thanks Richard! She's a peach!
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Yesterday I updated my firmware at home via the Zero app and the process went well, taking about 30 minutes to accomplish. My BMS firmware went from revision 26 to revision 30 and my MMB firmware changed from revision 19 to revision 23. Here are the results so far:
The only obvious change that I have noticed so far is that there was a 50 mile jump in the estimated range upon riding off with a full charge and traveling for a few miles at 25 mph. I used to see a projected range of around 160 miles, but now the range estimator said (on my first ride after the update) that I had 224 miles to empty, which dropped to 140 miles once I hit the freeway and started traveling at 65 mph. Upon arriving home, after traveling 38 miles, about 20 miles of which were on the freeway, the projected range was still 100 miles.
The updated BMS firmware seems to have resulted in a slight improvement to the battery power capacity, also. After a full charge, my app is showing a battery capacity of 15.312 kWh, compared with 15.138, previously. The app continues to show 132 AH capacity and voltage remains at 116 volts. Also when I pulled my charger cord the charging light and display went blank, instead of staying on continuously as it had done before. So that is a real plus for me, if it continues to do so.
On a ride today I noticed another small improvement as the result of the MMB firmware update: Previously, when in eco mode and braking, the regen power indicator at the lower right hand section of the screen display, would show less than the the full regen braking that I would see when using my custom mode, which I had set at 100% braking regen. However, with the latest update, I am receiving 100% regen upon braking in eco mode. So that is another minor plus. :)
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Yesterday I updated my firmware at home via the Zero app and the process went well, taking about 30 minutes to accomplish. My BMW firmware went from revision 26 to revision 30 and my MMB firmware changed from revision 19 to revision 23. Here are the results so far:
The only obvious change that I have noticed so far is that there was a 50 mile jump in the estimated range upon riding off with a full charge and traveling for a few miles at 25 mph. I used to see a projected range of around 160 miles, but now the range estimator said (on my first ride after the update) that I had 224 miles to empty, which dropped to 140 miles once I hit the freeway and started traveling at 65 mph. Upon arriving home, after traveling 38 miles, about 20 miles of which were on the freeway, the projected range was still 100 miles.
The updated BMS firmware seems to have resulted in a slight improvement to the battery power capacity, also. After a full charge, my app is showing a battery capacity of 15.312 kWh, compared with 15.138, previously. The app continues to show 132 AH capacity and voltage remains at 116 volts. Also when I pulled my charger cord the charging light and display went blank, instead of staying on continuously as it had done before. So that is a real plus for me, if it continues to do so.
On a ride today I noticed another small improvement as the result of the MMB firmware update: Previously, when in eco mode and braking, the regen power indicator at the lower right hand section of the screen display, would show less than the the full regen braking that I would see when using my custom mode, which I had set at 100% braking regen. However, with the latest update, I am receiving 100% regen upon braking in eco mode. So that is another minor plus. :)
Congrats on the new bike Richard. Are you also in the ZMOG facebook group? I think theres someone on there that has mentioned a 2018S+PT recently.
Anyway, your particular bike setup is interesting to me, because I have a 2016SR (13Kwh same battery as 2018S) and I was interested in installing the new 3.6Kwh powertank which would be practically identical to the battery chemistry config of your '18S and powertank. I say I was interested, past tense because Ive recently decided to upgrade to a 2018SR because of the cautionary tales on the FB page regarding mixing 29ah and 32ah battery cells. My main take away is that it would have been necessary to let the main pack and PT balance after a long ride by either plugging in for at least 5-10 minutes or by leaving the bike powered on for the same amount of time before riding again, there again waiting on balance. My question to you is, have you experinced any issues where you stopped after a long ride, shut the bike off and upon power on the bike wont go? Basically, this would potentially be caused by a battery imbalance, that self corrects once the contactor closes, but isnt an instantanious process.
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Hello ZeroPointZero. I don't do Facebook, so you won't find me there.
I have had no issues at all with my 2018 Zero S, other than the charge indicator light and display staying on after the charge power cord is disconnected. I had a 2014 S with PT and also had no issues with that bike, other than after 3.5 years of ownership, the bike would stop charging at an indicated 92%. Otherwise it is still running fine for my daughter who now rides my old Zero. Neither of us has had a problem with our bikes not starting at low power levels. In fact I once ran the 2014 bike down to 0%, when it stopped. However, I was able to go another 1/8 mile uphill to my home by letting the battery rest for a minute and then it would start up again for another 100 feet before stalling. I repeated the process until I arrived home. Once I was there, I checked the cell balance and found them to be something like 150 mV (more or less) out of balance. But once the battery pack was recharged, cell balance returned to 3-4 mV.
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> Hello ZeroPointZero. I don't do Facebook, so you won't find me there...
Friends don't let friends demand friends be on f-book : - )
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Congratulations on your new purchase. Now as with any new Zero bike, loosen that belt, center it in the sprocket, and apply a little silicone spray to get rid of those annoying new bike moans and groans.
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Congratulations on your new purchase. Now as with any new Zero bike, loosen that belt, center it in the sprocket, and apply a little silicone spray to get rid of those annoying new bike moans and groans.
The annoying moans and groans went away without doing any of that stuff after a few hundred miles of riding. :)
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I thought I would update my 2018 experience and add a couple of comments regarding my 2018 Zero S that I have noticed lately when comparing it with my old 2014 S:
The 2018 no longer has a power pulse (regen automatically turning on and off when braking or in eco mode) when using the regen feature during the first mile of riding when the battery pack is fully charged. This is likely due to the fully charged voltage of the 2018 model being 116 volts, while the 2014 model showed 117 volts when new. (After four years of usage it is now showing 113 volts when fully charged so that is no longer an issue with that bike.)
The 2018 bike does not drop a percentage point or two in the power level display when turned off and then turned back on during a ride, like the 2014 Zero did.
After about 2,000 miles of riding, the Zero app displayed voltage, when the battery pack is fully charged, has dropped from 116 volts to 115 volts. Cell balance varies between 3 and 5 mV after the on-board charger has turned off. When brand new the balance was shown as between 2 and 3 mV.
Otherwise my new Zero is operating perfectly and running great. The only issue that I have experienced is picking up a medium-size nail in my rear tire. I plugged the tire in a few minutes using a Dynaplug tubeless tire repair kit and it worked perfectly. After a couple of hundred miles of riding I have experienced no loss in air pressure, but then the size of the nail hole was perfectly matched to the Dynaplug repair plug. :) (I carry a Dynaplug tubeless tire repair tool and either a small air pump or six compressed air bottles on every motorcycle that I own.)
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Today I bought a spare drive belt for my Zero, just to have one around should something unexpected happen. (Plus I had a 15%-off coupon that was expiring and some loyalty reward points that I wanted to use up.) I was surprised to see that the shop's parts department had one in stock. :) The price was $125 + $10 state sales tax. Much better than the drive belt for the BMW F800GT, (as an example) which goes for an eye-watering $450, plus around $260 labor to install it by a BMW shop. :o
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I just downloaded BMS and MMB firmware Versions 31. It took about 15 minutes to download and at the end of the process the app said that there was an error and to try again. When I did that, it said that my firmware was up to date. ??? Now my Zero app provides less information than it used to do, most noticeably it no longer shows the pack kWh capacity. >:( I hope the MMB firmware does something more useful. ::)
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Today I displayed my Zero at the local high school "car and motorcycle" show, next to some sort of little V-twin that was about 2 feet high. Photo attached. During the 6 hours that I was at the show I had three people come by and ask me about my Zero. (Last year I had about 20 people stop by and inquire about my Royal Enfield, which won the show's best motorcycle award.) Only one person said he was interesting in buying one, but was turned off by the Zero dealer that he visited as the salesman that he spoke with didn't seem to know much about the bikes he was selling. Just to keep him interested I gave him one of the extra 2017 Zero brochures that I picked up at my dealer and gave him a recommendation of whom to talk with the next time he visits the shop.
I think there are people interested in electric motorcycles, but not than many want to actually spend money to buy one. However, there does seem to be a lot more interest in electrically-assisted bicycles.
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...one person said he was interesting in buying one, but was turned off by the Zero dealer that he visited as the salesman that he spoke with didn't seem to know much about the bikes he was selling...
When a person asks about my Zero DSR I suggest that if they are familiar with motorcycles they take it for a ride. It answers a lot of questions without me having to say anything. Hopefully no one damages or disappears with my bike... so far people trying out the bike come back and say something like "Yes, I see what you mean, there's not a good way to explain it but it is a very interesting experience. Thank you! I cannot afford to buy one so I have no interest in going to a dealership for a demo ride, but I will tell my friends about this."
I wish there were more advocacy efforts and resources by and for dealerships representing the Zero Motorcycles brand. A large part of the public seem to feel that they have no business going to a vehicle dealership just for a quick test ride and no intention of buying anything; However for Electric Vehicles the most important action for the industry is going to be an opportunity for everyone to get the experience of driving / riding and to join the conversation.
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...one person said he was interesting in buying one, but was turned off by the Zero dealer that he visited as the salesman that he spoke with didn't seem to know much about the bikes he was selling...
When a person asks about my Zero DSR I suggest that if they are familiar with motorcycles they take it for a ride. It answers a lot of questions without me having to say anything. Hopefully no one damages or disappears with my bike... so far people trying out the bike come back and say something like "Yes, I see what you mean, there's not a good way to explain it but it is a very interesting experience. Thank you! I cannot afford to buy one so I have no interest in going to a dealership for a demo ride, but I will tell my friends about this."
I wish there were more advocacy efforts and resources by and for dealerships representing the Zero Motorcycles brand. A large part of the public seem to feel that they have no business going to a vehicle dealership just for a quick test ride and no intention of buying anything; However for Electric Vehicles the most important action for the industry is going to be an opportunity for everyone to get the experience of driving / riding and to join the conversation.
The BMW dealer that I frequent, located in the middle of tech-savvy Silicon Valley, sells both the BMW C-Evolution scooter and Energica motorcycles. Within the past 6 months, they have sold only one C-Evolution (to a fellow in Texas) and just two or three Energica models (one went to Texas), the last I checked. This is in spite of them asking many of their customers to go for a test ride on their Eva demonstrator and give the bike a try. I would imagine that many people find the ride exciting, but not enough to spring for $20+K. If they have that kind of money they snatch up the BMW R1200GS - which tend to go flying out the shop's door. So there you go. The customer is always right. ???