ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: mrwilsn on May 05, 2017, 07:16:20 AM
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The charging recommendations are old news for forum readers. I'm really happy to see Zero finally providing insight into the changes they are making in the firmware updates and alerting owners that new firmware is available. I think it really helps so people know why they would want to do an update and maybe some who haven't had a firmware update since the day they bought it years ago might actually go have the update done.....you know who you are ;)
NEW CHARGING RECOMMENDATIONS
Previously, Zero has recommended that our owners always keep their motorcycles plugged in to charge whenever they’re not in use. We are now changing our charging recommendations for our 2013 and later motorcycles to maximize the performance and longevity of our Z-Force® Power Packs. This change is based on a wealth of real-world power pack performance data and insights from our cell provider.
Zero is now recommending that owners do not keep their motorcycles plugged into an AC power source once charged. This will ensure maximum performance and power pack life. Detailed recommendations:
Regular Use
After each use, you should plug your motorcycle into an AC power source to recharge. Once it is charged, you should disconnect it from the AC power source. Leaving your motorcycle unplugged will maximize long-term power pack health.
While unplugged and keyed off, the motorcycle’s electronics will consume a very small amount of power and the power pack will drain extremely slowly. If you don’t ride for an extended period (30 days or more), you may want to plug the motorcycle in for a few hours to charge it prior to your next ride.
Long-term Storage
For planned long-term storage (more than 30 days), we recommend draining the power pack to a ~60% state of charge (SoC), and leaving the motorcycle unplugged.
The power pack will drain slowly over time. Check the SoC at least monthly, and charge it back up to 60% if it has dropped below 30%. When you’re ready to take your motorcycle out of storage to ride it again, plug it in for at least 24 hours to ensure optimal cell balance is restored.
WARNING: Never store your motorcycle at a state of charge of less than 30%. Leaving the power pack discharged below this level for a prolonged period could damage the power pack and void the warranty.
NEW FIRMWARE
Even though Zero motorcycles’ powertrains require very little maintenance, that doesn’t mean no-maintenance, and we highly recommend having your firmware updated at least once a year to ensure that your motorcycle performs at its best. If you haven’t had your firmware updated in the last year, now should probably be the time, as we’ve made some important updates. We’ve just released new firmware with the Zero Diagnostic Utility version 26.11 and higher. Owners who upgrade to this version will get a series of improvements and new algorithms developed to maximize power pack life. Specifically, you’ll benefit from:
Enhanced Charge Top-Off Monitoring
This algorithm enhances the procedure by which the motorcycle maintains its maximum SoC while connected to a charger. Once your bike is fully charged, the charger will shut off. It will then only top-off the battery when its SoC falls into the low 90% range. This will save your Power Pack and charger from unnecessary, frequent charging when left unused for longer periods of time. To force a full charge before a ride, unplug the charger for 1 minute, then plug it back in to initiate a top-off.
Power Pack SoC Maximization
As the power pack on your motorcycle ages, individual battery cells may perform differently. Any reported imbalance may lead to an unnecessary reduction in available power and reduced motorcycle range. This new algorithm monitors individual battery cell performance to ensure you are maximizing both power and range. In addition, it improves the accuracy of the SoC reported on your dash.
Mr. Aaron Cheatham has just (OK the letter is dated 9 May but I only got it a few weeks ago) sent me these same recommendations via letter. Very nice heavyweight paper stock (more like a greeting card) and everything!
One particular item of note (highlighted in bold text by Mr. Cheatham himself) which was not in the email that was sent is that "costs of all firmware updates are fully covered by Zero, regardless of your bike's warranty status". Nice! I guess if your dealer tries to charge you for FW update you just show them the letter....I guess that might explain the super heavyweight card stock :)
Nice work Aaron!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4096/34944577644_3054a3b71d_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4287/34944574574_8a080afe50_b.jpg)
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After each use, you should plug your motorcycle into an AC power source to recharge. Once it is charged, you should disconnect it from the AC power source. Leaving your motorcycle unplugged will maximize long-term power pack health.
This one seems odd to me. If the AC power is plugged in and the bike is topped off how would the bike get more power less it asked for it?
On my 2013 with the same year battery my meanwell chargers will all click their relays when the bike is topped off and no power gets tot he battery that I know of at least ... wonder if some still gets through and the batteries have to drain it off?
I could see this helping the chargers / CCU (on 2013's only) have a longer life though. Let me go check my bike and see if it is charged :D
(watch, I start doing this and something bad happens >__< lol)
As for the firmware updates I don't trust dealers to do them anymore after they flashed mine and screwed it up :/
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Nothing can get to the battery if the contactor is open but the charger does still draw a few watts....like .08 amps but at a low PF. There is a slow drain on the batteries so if you leave it plugged in and don't ride for long enough then the voltage will drop enough for charging to start up again.
With the new firmware you have to get down to 90% before that would happen. With older firmware it happens much sooner.... something like 1V or 2V drop. That's why the new firmware adds the top off feature. So if you come out and voltage is within a volt or 2 but you want most possible trons then you just unplug for 1 minute and plug back in.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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The new FW's top-off algorithm is fine....and absolutely unnecessary if you follow the new charging recommendations, unplug after end of charge!
And still no solution to stop charging cleanly (without sparcs in the plug) before unplugging, when you need to do so before end of charge?
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I would love a programmable SOC charge limit via the app, just like Tesla's "everyday riding" and "trip" charge. Everyday limit would be 90%, if you plan to do a longer ride just set it to 100% and embark right after finishing.
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I would love a programmable SOC charge limit via the app, just like Tesla's "everyday riding" and "trip" charge. Everyday limit would be 90%, if you plan to do a longer ride just set it to 100% and embark right after finishing.
I was just about to post this, programmable SOC charge limit would be great, I would personally keep it at 80% for increased battery life :)
I hope they introduce this and faster charging option.
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I guess something like that
https://www.amazon.de/AVM-intelligente-Steckdose-Spritzwasserschutz-Au%C3%9Fenbereich/dp/B01MRZ60F0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489952052&sr=8-1&keywords=fritz+dect+210 (https://www.amazon.de/AVM-intelligente-Steckdose-Spritzwasserschutz-Au%C3%9Fenbereich/dp/B01MRZ60F0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489952052&sr=8-1&keywords=fritz+dect+210)
does the job. But you have to program each shutdown-time if they are different.
Maybe there is a tool, where you can choose a limit of kWh to shutdown?
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Who received this Email, and how do I get on the list?
Does anyone know what firmware revision this is referencing? I got rev50 very recently, but someone on FB posted that they have rev51.
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Pinned the topic sticky. Seems important.
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Is the firmware update something you have to take to a dealer to do? Or can you do it yourself?
I have a 2016 SR
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Is the firmware update something you have to take to a dealer to do? Or can you do it yourself?
I have a 2016 SR
2017 bikes can update firmware through the app, but you have to take it to the dealer. There should be no charge.
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Thanks - will take to my dealer
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I guess something like that
https://www.amazon.de/AVM-intelligente-Steckdose-Spritzwasserschutz-Au%C3%9Fenbereich/dp/B01MRZ60F0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489952052&sr=8-1&keywords=fritz+dect+210 (https://www.amazon.de/AVM-intelligente-Steckdose-Spritzwasserschutz-Au%C3%9Fenbereich/dp/B01MRZ60F0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489952052&sr=8-1&keywords=fritz+dect+210)
does the job. But you have to program each shutdown-time if they are different.
Maybe there is a tool, where you can choose a limit of kWh to shutdown?
I'm actually thinking about designing something with a Wemos (arduino with wifi). I have a separate electricity meter for the charging cable, which can easily be read out with an arduino. Furthermore I'm thinking about using some of the ideas of the other thread to get a CAN-bus connection to the bike via the OBD-port and send the data to the wemos while charging, which then transfers it to my homeserver. I have all the parts here, I just need a little more time ;-)
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Concerning Domingo’s comment regarding recommended, (not recalls) firmware updates - ‘There should be no charge.†I just checked with 2 dealers in California. Both said ‘yes’ to: There would be a $$ charge. This seems correct to me as they need to cover their overhead.
Question - Should the firmware update be accomplished? Is it highly advisable or just a suggestion?
Question - If an owner did have their bike updated (not a recall) in the past, was there a noticeable difference in performance?
Thought - The latest firmware update is a good idea as anything to extend the life of the battery is a wise choice.
The dealers I checked with were: [1] Revolution Moto in Santa Rosa, and [2] San Jose BMW.
Concerning ‘Revolution Moto’, they are a fairly new Zero dealership. I asked if they had fast charging there - answer = ‘no’. Question - If I dropped by, would I be allowed to charge with the bikes on-board charger - answer = ‘Yes’.
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As I have said before, my 2014 S is running and charging perfectly. The battery modules are in balance and within 2-3 mV. I can still travel as far on a charge as when the bike was new, over 3 years ago. So I can't think of any reason why I would want my firmware updated. ??? Why take a chance on something going wrong with the download, or that firmware updates that were designed for the newer models might clash with my 2014 model?
To me yearly visits to a Zero dealer seems like a method of tossing some after-sales business to dealers who are not getting much action for the "backroom" from EV technology after the bike is sold to the customer. I know that BMW dealers make a lot more profit from regular 6K servicing than they ever make from the initial sale. And that service just gets more and more expensive. Right now servicing their latest models at a BMW shop (which includes checking for, and possibly installing, revised firmware downloads) can easily run between $600 to $800 each visit. Not needing to visit a Zero dealer saves me a lot of money. Although I might feel differently if my local dealer hadn't gone out of business. :(
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As I have said before, my 2014 S is running and charging perfectly. The battery modules are in balance and within 2-3 mV. I can still travel as far on a charge as when the bike was new, over 3 years ago. So I can't think of any reason why I would want my firmware updated. ??? Why take a chance on something going wrong with the download, or that firmware updates that were designed for the newer models might clash with my 2014 model?
To me yearly visits to a Zero dealer seems like a method of tossing some after-sales business to dealers who are not getting much action for the "backroom" from EV technology after the bike is sold to the customer. I know that BMW dealers make a lot more profit from regular 6K servicing than they ever make from the initial sale. And that service just gets more and more expensive. Right now servicing their latest models at a BMW shop (which includes checking for, and possibly installing, revised firmware downloads) can easily run between $600 to $800 each visit. Not needing to visit a Zero dealer saves me a lot of money. Although I might feel differently if my local dealer hadn't gone out of business. :(
Considering that the 2017 models added the ability to do firmware updates using the phone app I don't think their recommendation is aimed at throwing coin at the dealers. The way I see it, giving you the information about what's included in an update at least gives you the knowledge to weigh the risks of doing the update vs. not doing the update. If you decide not to do the update at least it's an informed decision instead of just a fear of the unknown.
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As I have said before, my 2014 S is running and charging perfectly. The battery modules are in balance and within 2-3 mV. I can still travel as far on a charge as when the bike was new, over 3 years ago. So I can't think of any reason why I would want my firmware updated. ??? Why take a chance on something going wrong with the download, or that firmware updates that were designed for the newer models might clash with my 2014 model?
To me yearly visits to a Zero dealer seems like a method of tossing some after-sales business to dealers who are not getting much action for the "backroom" from EV technology after the bike is sold to the customer. I know that BMW dealers make a lot more profit from regular 6K servicing than they ever make from the initial sale. And that service just gets more and more expensive. Right now servicing their latest models at a BMW shop (which includes checking for, and possibly installing, revised firmware downloads) can easily run between $600 to $800 each visit. Not needing to visit a Zero dealer saves me a lot of money. Although I might feel differently if my local dealer hadn't gone out of business. :(
Agreed...especially since the closest dealer to where I live is 1,100 km's (700 miles) away.
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To me yearly visits to a Zero dealer seems like a method of tossing some after-sales business to dealers who are not getting much action for the "backroom" from EV technology after the bike is sold to the customer. I know that BMW dealers make a lot more profit from regular 6K servicing than they ever make from the initial sale. And that service just gets more and more expensive. Right now servicing their latest models at a BMW shop (which includes checking for, and possibly installing, revised firmware downloads) can easily run between $600 to $800 each visit. Not needing to visit a Zero dealer saves me a lot of money. Although I might feel differently if my local dealer hadn't gone out of business. :(
$600 to $800 ?? Seems way excessive. I had my 2016 SR serviced (4K miles) at San Jose BMW three weeks ago; just over $300, which included a new front tire!
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To me yearly visits to a Zero dealer seems like a method of tossing some after-sales business to dealers who are not getting much action for the "backroom" from EV technology after the bike is sold to the customer. I know that BMW dealers make a lot more profit from regular 6K servicing than they ever make from the initial sale. And that service just gets more and more expensive. Right now servicing their latest models at a BMW shop (which includes checking for, and possibly installing, revised firmware downloads) can easily run between $600 to $800 each visit. Not needing to visit a Zero dealer saves me a lot of money. Although I might feel differently if my local dealer hadn't gone out of business. :(
$600 to $800 ?? Seems way excessive. I had my 2016 SR serviced (4K miles) at San Jose BMW three weeks ago; just over $300, which included a new front tire!
Those prices are for servicing an IC BMW, not a Zero. No doubt servicing a Zero will always be less than servicing an IC motorcycle. One problem that my closest Zero dealer has is that they are so busy fixing crashed bikes, that they hardly have any time or space to provide normal walk-in servicing. The fact that they are also a franchised dealer for something like 6 brands doesn't help much, either. $300 for servicing and the replacement of a front tire seems pretty reasonable to me.
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Those prices are for servicing an IC BMW, not a Zero. No doubt servicing a Zero will always be less than servicing an IC motorcycle. One problem that my closest Zero dealer has is that they are so busy fixing crashed bikes, that they hardly have any time or space to provide normal walk-in servicing. The fact that they are also a franchised dealer for something like 6 brands doesn't help much, either. $300 for servicing and the replacement of a front tire seems pretty reasonable to me.
Thanks for the clarification. When I picked up my bike, a guy at San Jose BMW did mention how much more expensive service was for ICE. Another shop near me (40Miles), Contra Costa Powersports, has a walk-in clinic, where you get "first come, first served" service. Not sure if this is every week or every month. Anyway, IMO it's a great idea -- if you need to get something fixed, and don't want to wait days or weeks for an appointment. OTOH, the one time I did the walk in it was packed! Took around six hours before they got to my bike. Fort. there was a Starbucks nearby with wifi.
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Question, I have a 2016 SR that I purchased in November 2016. How do I find out if there is an update for my bike? Does Zero send out an email?
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Question, I have a 2016 SR that I purchased in November 2016. How do I find out if there is an update for my bike? Does Zero send out an email?
Not to the owners, no. If they're like every other motorcycle manufacturer, though, the dealer does get updated technical bulletins.
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Concerning Domingo’s comment regarding recommended, (not recalls) firmware updates - ‘There should be no charge.†I just checked with 2 dealers in California. Both said ‘yes’ to: There would be a $$ charge. This seems correct to me as they need to cover their overhead.
Question - Should the firmware update be accomplished? Is it highly advisable or just a suggestion?
Question - If an owner did have their bike updated (not a recall) in the past, was there a noticeable difference in performance?
Thought - The latest firmware update is a good idea as anything to extend the life of the battery is a wise choice.
The dealers I checked with were: [1] Revolution Moto in Santa Rosa, and [2] San Jose BMW.
Concerning ‘Revolution Moto’, they are a fairly new Zero dealership. I asked if they had fast charging there - answer = ‘no’. Question - If I dropped by, would I be allowed to charge with the bikes on-board charger - answer = ‘Yes’.
I've read of quite a few people that paid for firmware updates. If you believe Todd Anderson, Vice President of Global Sales, Marketing and After-Sales at Zero Motorcycles, "Zero covers firmware updates under warranty. If a dealer asks you to pay, make sure they're aware that Zero will reimburse them through our warranty system."
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I've read of quite a few people that paid for firmware updates. If you believe Todd Anderson, Vice President of Global Sales, Marketing and After-Sales at Zero Motorcycles, "Zero covers firmware updates under warranty. If a dealer asks you to pay, make sure they're aware that Zero will reimburse them through our warranty system."
domingo3 - Thanks for your input. Your comment is quite fascinating.
Businesses - As things change from time-to-time, a call to Zero first thing tomorrow morning is in order to ask if Todd Anderson’s position still stands.
Maybe others will also call and post Zero’s answer.
The earliest I can post is around 1700 PDT (UTC -7).
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To all concerning firmware updates:
Great news.
domingo3 - The info you previous provided is spot on.
Thanks for providing the info as I did not know.
I wonder how many others are unaware of the no charge ($$) policy.
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I decided to drop Zero an e-mail just after posting earlier today.
Zero’s response from Mike was:
“That is correct, firmware update is at no charge. If there is any confusion, please have your dealer contact their service representative.â€
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-to my e-mail of-
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To: Zero Motorcycles <inquiries@zeromotorcycles.com>
Subject: Firmware updates question
Firmware 'recommended' updates question:
My 2014 SR has never been updated (VIN [removed]).
Is there 'no' charge ($$) for me if a dealership performs a "recommended" firmware update regardless of the geographic area (e.g. U.S., France, Australia etc)????
Thanks, [removed]
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About Zero’s customer service - It was Excellent. I asked on a Sunday and received an answer the very same day - Note: As Zero is closed on Sundays, I never expected a reply today.
It seems that both dealerships I contacted the other day about firmware updates were incorrect about charging the customer for a ‘recommended’ firmware update.
Maybe Zero should remind all of their dealers of Zero’s current policy regarding firmware updates.
Come Tuesday, when both dealerships I contacted in the Bay Area are open again [on Tuesday], I will call both and ask again if there’s a charge ($$). It will be quite interesting if they stick to their original answer.
The dealerships were: San Jose BMW and Revolution Moto (Santa Rosa).
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New firmware came out Friday, I am told. That would be May 6.
I'm to try it ASAP to see if it solves my onboard charging problem,
provides more info about it.
Some of you may know that on the way to have my SCv2 installed,
I ran out of juice at 82 miles, had to be towed a couple of miles, and
since then, any charging that uses the signal to start charging fails. So I'm
currently in the position of carrying around an onboard charger, which
can't be made to work, my elcon 2500, which can't be made to work,
and my SCv2, which works great as long as the signal line is unplugged
and the key is on.
So, yeah, attended charging, generally.
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https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU (https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU)
I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch. Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch. I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil. Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night. I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger. Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.
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https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU (https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU)
I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch. Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch. I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil. Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night. I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger. Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.
Ill answer my own question, the WION switch only handles 1000W.... Damnit ! The Killawatt doesnt have automated features, does anyone know of an automated outlet switch?
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I use an energy saving mains socket for PCs:
http://www.ansmann.de/en/products/chargers-power-supplies/energy-saving-mains-sockets/aes3?___store=en (http://www.ansmann.de/en/products/chargers-power-supplies/energy-saving-mains-sockets/aes3?___store=en)
It's programmable to the standby consumption of the plugged in device and switches power off after 1 minute as soon as the standby draw have been reached.
Power on is via push button.
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I use an energy saving mains socket for PCs:
http://www.ansmann.de/en/products/chargers-power-supplies/energy-saving-mains-sockets/aes3?___store=en (http://www.ansmann.de/en/products/chargers-power-supplies/energy-saving-mains-sockets/aes3?___store=en)
It's programmable to the standby consumption of the plugged in device and switches power off after 1 minute as soon as the standby draw have been reached.
Power on is via push button.
Is there a USA version?
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Okay. I just made an appointment the soonest my local dealership can get me in for the firmware upgrade is 14th June. Yikes.
*Update* appointment pushed closer to Wednesday next week (17th-May). They want to offer the firmware upgrade while I get my tires changed, and the tire change is free if I take the wheels off, but they don't want me to take the wheels off in their parking lot. So... I guess I'll stop in and see what time they want that firmware upgrade done, and when that's done run across the parking lot to dismantle my bike? Ha ha.
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https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU (https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU)
I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch. Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch. I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil. Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night. I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger. Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.
The BMS disconnects everything when you have a full charge. Once you get a full charge the BMS will open the contactor. At that point the bike will still pull about 1-2 watt from the wall but the charger is off the power draw is for bike electronics to monitor your bike.
Your Zero will do the same thing as your laptop. It will charge to 100% and then disconnect. If charge falls to 90% from sitting for a long period of time unused then the BMS will close the contactor and start charging process. This loop will continue indefinitely for as long as the bike remains plugged in. If you come out to your bike and charge is between 90% and 100% and the charger is off then unplug for 1 minute and plug back in. The BMS will start charging process and top the bike off to 100%.
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Recommended Firmware updates and 'NO' other services - Big recommendation, call the dealership first and ensure they will not charge you, the owner, before arriving for the update. If they persist in saying you, the owner, is responsible, please stand your ground. If need be, contact Zero yourself and Zero will school the dealership as they did for me.
Background:
[1] I called both dealerships again this morning for clarification. Revolution Moto said they would call Zero because they were not aware of the Zero’s current policy. The lady was very nice.
San Jose BMW service department, on the other hand, was very adamant to the point of being rude and wanting to argue that I would be responsible. I stood my ground. Finally, the male rep said they would call Zero and get back with me.
[2] I called Zero myself. Lydia answered. I’ve spoken with her before and she’s always been helpful. I was placed on hold.
[3] Nicklaus chimed in and reaffirmed Zero would be responsible for the life of the bike. He mentioned, sometimes dealerships perform other services, so be sure, very sure, what’s being agreed to. I have spoken to Nicklaus a few times before - he’s always been extremely helpful.
[4] Revolution Moto did call me- Yep, there will be no charge ($$).
[5] San Jose BMW never called me with an update like they promised, so I called them not long ago. They also know now it’s Zero’s responsibility. My take on San Jose BMW is that they’re like SF Moto for warranty issues -because- they’ll hold your bike hostage until you agree to other profitable services. Yep, SF Moto did that to me about 2 years ago. A call to Zero fixed it - I never did Thank Nicklaus for handling that issue.
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Recommended Firmware updates and 'NO' other services - Big recommendation, call the dealership first and ensure they will not charge you, the owner, before arriving for the update. If they persist in saying you, the owner, is responsible, please stand your ground. If need be, contact Zero yourself and Zero will school the dealership as they did for me.
Background:
[1] I called both dealerships again this morning for clarification. Revolution Moto said they would call Zero because they were not aware of the Zero’s current policy. The lady was very nice.
San Jose BMW service department, on the other hand, was very adamant to the point of being rude and wanting to argue that I would be responsible. I stood my ground. Finally, the male rep said they would call Zero and get back with me.
[2] I called Zero myself. Lydia answered. I’ve spoken with her before and she’s always been helpful. I was placed on hold.
[3] Nicklaus chimed in and reaffirmed Zero would be responsible for the life of the bike. He mentioned, sometimes dealerships perform other services, so be sure, very sure, what’s being agreed to. I have spoken to Nicklaus a few times before - he’s always been extremely helpful.
[4] Revolution Moto did call me- Yep, there will be no charge ($$).
[5] San Jose BMW never called me with an update like they promised, so I called them not long ago. They also know now it’s Zero’s responsibility. My take on San Jose BMW is that they’re like SF Moto for warranty issues -because- they’ll hold your bike hostage until you agree to other profitable services. Yep, SF Moto did that to me about 2 years ago. A call to Zero fixed it - I never did Thank Nicklaus for handling that issue.
Way to keep after em'!!
I wonder if Zero also covers 'motor commissioning and timing' for the life of the bike?
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mrwilsn, your question - ".... I wonder if Zero also covers 'motor commissioning and timing' for the life of the bike?"
That's a very good question. Maybe now is the time to find out (somehow) all that Zero covers.
I bet BrianT, if given the info would include it in his excellent unofficial manual (or has he already?).
mrwilsn - your comment about making an informed choice whether to update or not - Thanks mrwilsn
Richard's comment was also quite good - If it ain't broke, don't fix it (well, maybe not those exact words). -Thanks Richard
domingo3 - if not for your info, we may never had the true low down. Thanks again domingo3
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Re commissioning and timing a motor ... you should only have to ever do this if the encoder changes, is damaged, or the motor is replaced, etc. To do this on newer models requires very expensive software and a dongle to gain access to the controller settings required to do it correctly. On MY13's though the cost isn't as bad as you only pay for the dongle and not the software. (we are talking paying $150 vs $1350 to do the same thing here)
Yeah this video is old and fuzzy at times, but it is there to help :D ... I don't plan on doing this again lol
Installing New Motor pt5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxA3493vs-I)
Side note ... I cringe when it is suggested I update my bikes firmware after having a local shop screw it up once ... I ended up doing the update myself after realizing their mistake :/
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What's needed to do the update yourself? Where do you get the firmware?
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What's needed to do the update yourself? Where do you get the firmware?
If you have a 2017 all you need is the Smartphone app. If you have an earlier model? I think the answer is "Forget it. Not happening."
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What's needed to do the update yourself? Where do you get the firmware?
If you have a 2017 all you need is the Smartphone app. If you have an earlier model? I think the answer is "Forget it. Not happening."
For MY13 - MY16 you need to have software zero doesn't give away, you also need an ODBII to USB connector and a laptop as well as the current "build" to be put on the bike. If you work for a dealer who sells Zero then you have access to all of these, if you don't then you will find it very hard to get access to these.
It is nice to see Zero migrating to bluetooth upgrades knowing what it takes to install one without it. I wonder if they can transfer this ability retrograde using the same interface or would it be prohibitive to do so.
Another reason to "upgrade" I guess ...
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It's a reason to upgrade to a MY17 bike, I doubt they'll give it away for free to older ones.
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It's a reason to upgrade to a MY17 bike, I doubt they'll give it away for free to older ones.
And for good reason. You can brick your bike if you don't know what you are doing :D
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https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU (https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU)
I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch. Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch. I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil. Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night. I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger. Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.
The BMS disconnects everything when you have a full charge. Once you get a full charge the BMS will open the contactor. At that point the bike will still pull about 1-2 watt from the wall but the charger is off the power draw is for bike electronics to monitor your bike.
Your Zero will do the same thing as your laptop. It will charge to 100% and then disconnect. If charge falls to 90% from sitting for a long period of time unused then the BMS will close the contactor and start charging process. This loop will continue indefinitely for as long as the bike remains plugged in. If you come out to your bike and charge is between 90% and 100% and the charger is off then unplug for 1 minute and plug back in. The BMS will start charging process and top the bike off to 100%.
So why the new direction to disconnect power to the bike after fully charged, with all the precautionary power management features built in? Is the 1-2 Watt trickle charge really affecting the battery that much? Also, Ive always left my bike plugged in per the previous spec and Ive never seen it drop below 100% when left plugged in. However, the inline wattage meter did drop to single digits.
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https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU (https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU)
I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch. Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch. I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil. Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night. I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger. Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.
The BMS disconnects everything when you have a full charge. Once you get a full charge the BMS will open the contactor. At that point the bike will still pull about 1-2 watt from the wall but the charger is off the power draw is for bike electronics to monitor your bike.
Your Zero will do the same thing as your laptop. It will charge to 100% and then disconnect. If charge falls to 90% from sitting for a long period of time unused then the BMS will close the contactor and start charging process. This loop will continue indefinitely for as long as the bike remains plugged in. If you come out to your bike and charge is between 90% and 100% and the charger is off then unplug for 1 minute and plug back in. The BMS will start charging process and top the bike off to 100%.
So why the new direction to disconnect power to the bike after fully charged, with all the precautionary power management features built in? Is the 1-2 Watt trickle charge really affecting the battery that much? Also, Ive always left my bike plugged in per the previous spec and Ive never seen it drop below 100% when left plugged in. However, the inline wattage meter did drop to single digits.
The old guidance basically said you should have bike plugged in at all times especially if not riding for an extended period. The new guidance says you don't have to keep it plugged in and tries to give some guidelines for if you don't plug in to make sure you don't let the bike get below 30% for long periods of time. They also give some tips for maximizing battery life like keeping the battery at 60% for long term storage (e.g. winter).
If you leave the bike plugged in it will still be covered under warranty. If you don't keep plugged in and keep above 30% for long term storage the battery will be covered under warranty.
I would expect a bike that is left plugged in to stay at 100% if you have old firmware. If you update to the latest firmware and leave plugged in for long periods you could walk out to your bike and it could be as low as 90% though it can take weeks or months to drain that low. If it's below 100% just unplug for a minute then plug back in and you will top off.....but you have to get firmware updated for this feature.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU (https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU)
I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch. Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch. I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil. Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night. I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger. Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.
The BMS disconnects everything when you have a full charge. Once you get a full charge the BMS will open the contactor. At that point the bike will still pull about 1-2 watt from the wall but the charger is off the power draw is for bike electronics to monitor your bike.
Your Zero will do the same thing as your laptop. It will charge to 100% and then disconnect. If charge falls to 90% from sitting for a long period of time unused then the BMS will close the contactor and start charging process. This loop will continue indefinitely for as long as the bike remains plugged in. If you come out to your bike and charge is between 90% and 100% and the charger is off then unplug for 1 minute and plug back in. The BMS will start charging process and top the bike off to 100%.
So why the new direction to disconnect power to the bike after fully charged, with all the precautionary power management features built in? Is the 1-2 Watt trickle charge really affecting the battery that much? Also, Ive always left my bike plugged in per the previous spec and Ive never seen it drop below 100% when left plugged in. However, the inline wattage meter did drop to single digits.
The old guidance basically said you should have bike plugged in at all times especially if not riding for an extended period. The new guidance says you don't have to keep it plugged in and tries to give some guidelines for if you don't plug in to make sure you don't let the bike get below 30% for long periods of time. They also give some tips for maximizing battery life like keeping the battery at 60% for long term storage (e.g. winter).
If you leave the bike plugged in it will still be covered under warranty. If you don't keep plugged in and keep above 30% for long term storage the battery will be covered under warranty.
I would expect a bike that is left plugged in to stay at 100% if you have old firmware. If you update to the latest firmware and leave plugged in for long periods you could walk out to your bike and it could be as low as 90% though it can take weeks or months to drain that low. If it's below 100% just unplug for a minute then plug back in and you will top off.....but you have to get firmware updated for this feature.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Understood thanks, other than the last feature you mentioned do you know of any other changes a firmware upgrade would make on the MY2016? I dont think Ill bother with it, if thats the only feature upgrade. Id rather the bike stay at 100% so I dont have to mess with unplugging and replugging to top off when Im ready to ride.
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Understood thanks, other than the last feature you mentioned do you know of any other changes a firmware upgrade would make on the MY2016? I dont think Ill bother with it, if thats the only feature upgrade. Id rather the bike stay at 100% so I dont have to mess with unplugging and replugging to top off when Im ready to ride.
I doubt any of us know more than what was in OP first post on this thread. Have you read it? (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6878.msg56108#msg56108) If we knew more than this it's unlikely we could comment any further - when employees of Zero Motorcycles answer questions there is a responsibility to not say anything that could lead to a company-ending lawsuit.
I will be receiving a firmware update to my 2016 DSR this coming Wednesday. So, what I encourage everyone to do as I will do, is to document for themselves any differences in firmware. Just before hand-off to the dealership for firmware upgrade, use the Zero App (whichever version (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6843.msg55711#msg55711) works best for you (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6374.msg56128#msg56128)) to send yourself the MBB log and BMS logs (BMS0 is system battery, BMS1 is PowerTank if you have one). Hand off the bike to the dealer, get the firmware upgrade done, and then after the firmware upgrade before you do anything use the preferred version of your app AND then also the latest version of the app to get the MBB and BMS logs.
You will be able to use the Online Parser (https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/zero-log-parser.html) from the community-made Zero Log Tools (https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/), and verify that at least the MBB firmware version has changed.
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Charging/Balancing Question:
When I’m charging my bike and it gets to 100%, the balancing lights show the batteries are not in balance. Do you keep the bike plugged in until it shows fully balanced?
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Hello to everybody it is rare that I write on this forum but I wanted to say to all those who have a doubt about the life of our batteries, know and according to my calculations that our battery pack which are in 116/28 cells = 3.14 volts, actually 90% of the pack and not 100% (to have the 100% it would be necessary for the pack to be charged to 117.6 volts to get our 100%
So I think to charge 100% do not use the batteries.
Now me rolling in zero S 2016 (13kw) I charge and discharge only 30 to 70%! 40% per day are enough for me this extreme case will allow me to according to a friend engineer to make more than 40,000 loads!
laurent
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Charging/Balancing Question:
When I’m charging my bike and it gets to 100%, the balancing lights show the batteries are not in balance. Do you keep the bike plugged in until it shows fully balanced?
Balancing lights? You should write that up where those are in http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Cell_Balancing (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Cell_Balancing)
I've seen balance in the Zero App, Riding Screen Preview area, when charging, I seem to get 3-12mv which is .003 to .012 V. You can also see more detail, if you want to get technical through the diginow bluetooth reaper, sold at hollywood electrics, and your favorite android device. I think it's good to charge till good balance occasionally, and in particular after you run the battery till low voltage (it loses thrust).
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I will be receiving a firmware update to my 2016 DSR this coming Wednesday. So, what I encourage everyone to do as I will do, is to document for themselves any differences in firmware. Just before hand-off to the dealership for firmware upgrade, use the Zero App (whichever version (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6843.msg55711#msg55711) works best for you (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6374.msg56128#msg56128)) to send yourself the MBB log and BMS logs (BMS0 is system battery, BMS1 is PowerTank if you have one). Hand off the bike to the dealer, get the firmware upgrade done, and then after the firmware upgrade before you do anything use the preferred version of your app AND then also the latest version of the app to get the MBB and BMS logs.
You will be able to use the Online Parser (https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/zero-log-parser.html) from the community-made Zero Log Tools (https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/), and verify that at least the MBB firmware version has changed.
Unf. I'm still unable to d/l the logs (iphone 6s). With the most recent update of the app I'm now able to get the "driving" display working, but logs have same problems as before: they download, get to 100%, then the spinner spins forever.
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Hi,
just called our local dealer in Israel regarding the free of charge software update.
I was surprised to found he likes to charge 110 USD for this service...I have mentioned
Zero statement about this upgrade and he replied me that free of charge is limited to US
only and that they don't like to work for free (!!).
Any toughts about my optional next steps?
regards,
Eran
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I'm guessing that Israel falls under the European HQ? Give them a call, they surely will be interested in dealers that don't uphold policies.
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...they don't like to work for free (!!)...
Firmware upgrade and motor commissioning is warranty work. The dealership does the work and sends a bill to Zero Motorcycles to get paid for the work.
Firmware upgrade (MBB, BMS0, and if you have powertank BMS1) consists of removing the Seat (2 bolts), attaching a programming cable to the ODB port, and then connecting to a computer. Click a few buttons on the computer software and wait some time maybe 10-20 minutes.
Motor commissioning needs drive tire to be lifted off the ground. The technician activates the software, holds the throttle enough while watching the computer screen to try and get some drawn dots to end up in a bounding box (not too fast and not too slow), and then the process is completed.
The whole process takes 30 minutes, unless your dealership is totally daft about electronics.
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Which advantage does motorcommissioning have and when is it necessary?
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Which advantage dies motorcommissioning have and when is it necessary?
Each motor is slightly different when manufactured, and so there is a value of offset calibrated for the controller to account for this. The most (if any at all) drift is expected to happen say within the first 1000mi of use. After that it is a good idea to verify with regular service checkup as the owner's manual says, but the value of offset should be similar or exactly the same for the rest of the useful life of the motor.
When you take your Zero to have its motor and controller commissioned at an authorized dealership, there is no guidance to give you any sort of proof or information that the work is performed.
When I had my bike for the first 2000mi or so there were some ride-through faults in the Sevcon which I experienced as occasional sudden acceleration and/or rear wheel locking. At the time I was a new rider and thought it would be normal if a rock got kicked up through the rear sprocket or perhaps the throttle needed some more usage for the components to settle in - I really did not know this was a concern. I asked the dealership I purchased the bike from and they were hard-line "The bike does not require maintenance ever" at the time and had no idea what firmware or motor commissioning was. I have not had any of these faults in the 9,000mi+ since insisting that the motor and controller be re-commissioned, and firmware updated. I can not be sure that there is any cause and effect there to do with commissioning, or if there was any change made and even if any commissioning procedure was performed since there is no paper trail for me. I just have to trust that the dealership worked on the bike, which is kind of dubious to me because of their initial attitude towards regular maintenance on Zero Motorcycles vehicles.
Recently I was able to watch the process of commissioning and it is dead simple, also that the value did not change noticeably so I am more sure that it is correct now for the bike. There is a value kept on record of when the bike was manufactured, however, I don't know what that is and it's not readily available to look up. The technician would have to be mindful and go out of their way to know to take a note of the old value and the new value, which is not something they are being advised to do. There's no access for us bike owners to know this value without specialized hardware and legal contracts with Zero Motorcycles and the vendor software.
I've made a suggestion to folks at the factory that I would like to see some guidance for dealerships to show a printout or something describing the old value and the new value as proof that the work was performed, if the component is still drifting or if it is settled. Moto dealerships tend to view software as dark magic sorcery and might not perform it correctly or at all, yet tell the customer the work was performed and bill the factory for the warranty hours. You can verify at least the version of your MBB firmware by using the app to pull MBB logs and then view the version on the log parser (https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/zero-log-parser.html). I did this all from my phone at the dealership before and after the firmware upgrade process to verify that the work was done. Unfortunately there's no way (yet?) to verify the commissioning offset value.
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That is very interesting, Shadow. It sounds like a lot of valuable quality data is being lost in the commissioning process.
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There is a value kept on record of when the bike was manufactured, however, I don't know what that is and it's not readily available to look up. The technician would have to be mindful and go out of their way to know to take a note of the old value and the new value, which is not something they are being advised to do. There's no access for us bike owners to know this value without specialized hardware and legal contracts with Zero Motorcycles and the vendor software.
You don't need legal contracts with zero or the vendors software ... you do need the ixxat to usb and sevcon software (DVT) appropriate for your MY / Controller . And it isn't exactly cheap or user friendly less you are use to software like this (thankfully I am).
That said when using said software you always run a backup before doing anything. That backup has the previous offset stored inside it as it is a front facing variable visible in the GUI of said software when you go to set it. If the tech's are using any application which shows this to them, if not the DVT software itself, they could simply take a screen capture of the value before and after to provide to the customer ... in fact I would request it be done as part of my service.
You are correct though I don't think this value finds its way back to the MBB where it can be seen as a "setting" since the variable isn't required for the logic of the MBB.
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Hi guys --
So I dropped off my 2014 S at a local dealer this past Friday to get the firmware updated, and I heard back yesterday evening (Tuesday) that when they hooked up the computer to it, that the bike identified itself as a 2017, and could not update the firmware. They're gonna call Zero and see what to do. No other details so far, but has anyone else heard of this happening?
-t
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So I dropped off my 2014 S at a local dealer this past Friday to get the firmware updated, and I heard back yesterday evening (Tuesday) that when they hooked up the computer to it, that the bike identified itself as a 2017, and could not update the firmware. They're gonna call Zero and see what to do. No other details so far, but has anyone else heard of this happening?
Maybe the last time they applied a firmware update, they chose wrong image or set it wrong? Or maybe they put in a new MBB board somehow.
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...the bike identified itself as a 2017, and could not update the firmware. They're gonna call Zero and see what to do. No other details so far, but has anyone else heard of this happening?
Mine MBB updated okay at the dealership but the BMS failed to update. I heard something like (the employee at Zero) "made a patch for the BMS so it would update". That doesn't make a lot of sense to me but it did update.
Supporting all these different configurations of model year, model, hardware revisions, and firmware revisions, has got to be a galactic pain in the ass.
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Supporting all these different configurations of model year, model, hardware revisions, and firmware revisions, has got to be a galactic pain in the ass.
If done correctly it's not as hard as you would think. The question is, are they doing it correctly, or are they making that galactic pain in the ass for themselves, and if so, can they correct it?
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So I dropped off my 2014 S at a local dealer this past Friday to get the firmware updated, and I heard back yesterday evening (Tuesday) that when they hooked up the computer to it, that the bike identified itself as a 2017, and could not update the firmware. They're gonna call Zero and see what to do. No other details so far, but has anyone else heard of this happening?
Maybe the last time they applied a firmware update, they chose wrong image or set it wrong? Or maybe they put in a new MBB board somehow.
Yeah, it's very possible that it has a different MBB-- the bike had to be shipped back to Zero for battery problems a few months ago, but I wasn't told that they'd replaced anything. Still no news.
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got the bike back -- apparently nothing was different about my bike -- the dealer just had to update the software on their laptop for it to correctly recognize my 2014.
It still won't download the battery logs, but apparently Zero is coming out with a new version of the Android app that fixes that problem??
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Wait, wait, wait, I was charged for motor commissioning, same place that charged me for troubleshooting and dripped brake fluid on my plastics and said it was always like that. Guess I should have known that everything they said was a lie. Now I'm curious if they even did it. Would it show anything in the logs?
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Kind of pissed at my dealer who is 4hr round trip away. Was returning from vacation and passing by the dealership on the way home so a week before I called and asked for appt.. Their answer, sorry our one tech is booked that day. Seriously, they can't hook up and start the download. How long would that take, 2 mins. Which brings up the question, do I really need this update as long as I follow the new charging protocol? I'd rather wait till I need to go to dealer for something else.
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Kind of pissed at my dealer who is 4hr round trip away. Was returning from vacation and passing by the dealership on the way home so a week before I called and asked for appt.. Their answer, sorry our one tech is booked that day. Seriously, they can't hook up and start the download. How long would that take, 2 mins. Which brings up the question, do I really need this update as long as I follow the new charging protocol? I'd rather wait till I need to go to dealer for something else.
Which bike / firmware / MBB rev do you have now?
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Kind of pissed at my dealer who is 4hr round trip away. Was returning from vacation and passing by the dealership on the way home so a week before I called and asked for appt.. Their answer, sorry our one tech is booked that day. Seriously, they can't hook up and start the download. How long would that take, 2 mins. Which brings up the question, do I really need this update as long as I follow the new charging protocol? I'd rather wait till I need to go to dealer for something else.
Which bike / firmware / MBB rev do you have now?
Mines a 16 SR builtin July 16. Dont have a clue what firmware, how do I find that out?
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Kind of pissed at my dealer who is 4hr round trip away. Was returning from vacation and passing by the dealership on the way home so a week before I called and asked for appt.. Their answer, sorry our one tech is booked that day. Seriously, they can't hook up and start the download. How long would that take, 2 mins. Which brings up the question, do I really need this update as long as I follow the new charging protocol? I'd rather wait till I need to go to dealer for something else.
Which bike / firmware / MBB rev do you have now?
Mines a 16 SR builtin July 16. Dont have a clue what firmware, how do I find that out?
Use app to download logs and then instead of emailing to Zero, email to yourself. Then use the online viewer to check FW version.
https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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Kind of pissed at my dealer who is 4hr round trip away. Was returning from vacation and passing by the dealership on the way home so a week before I called and asked for appt.. Their answer, sorry our one tech is booked that day. Seriously, they can't hook up and start the download. How long would that take, 2 mins. Which brings up the question, do I really need this update as long as I follow the new charging protocol? I'd rather wait till I need to go to dealer for something else.
Which bike / firmware / MBB rev do you have now?
Mines a 16 SR builtin July 16. Dont have a clue what firmware, how do I find that out?
Use app to download logs and then instead of emailing to Zero, email to yourself. Then use the online viewer to check FW version.
https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
When I try to check the logs for my 2014S using the Zero app, all I get is the bike's VIN number and nothing else. I also haven't figured out how to determine what firmware version that I have. I have gone through the entire app information and nothing shows that. On my 2012S (as I recall) the firmware version would show up when the ignition was first booted up, but not on the 2014 model. ??? While this is not a big concern for me at this time, I am curious how this is done.
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Took some time but the EU HQ finally send out a similar email.
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When I try to check the logs for my 2014S using the Zero app, all I get is the bike's VIN number and nothing else. I also haven't figured out how to determine what firmware version that I have. I have gone through the entire app information and nothing shows that. On my 2012S (as I recall) the firmware version would show up when the ignition was first booted up, but not on the 2014 model. ??? While this is not a big concern for me at this time, I am curious how this is done.
Firmware version is in the first lines of decoded MBB output for my 2016 DSR. If your firmware is older maybe it does not appear in the output?
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Mr. Aaron Cheatham has just (OK the letter is dated 9 May but I only got it a few weeks ago) sent me these same recommendations via letter. Very nice heavyweight paper stock (more like a greeting card) and everything!
One particular item of note (highlighted in bold text by Mr. Cheatham himself) which was not in the email that was sent is that "costs of all firmware updates are fully covered by Zero, regardless of your bike's warranty status". Nice! I guess if your dealer tries to charge you for FW update you just show them the letter....I guess that might explain the super heavyweight card stock :)
Nice work Aaron!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4096/34944577644_3054a3b71d_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4287/34944574574_8a080afe50_b.jpg)
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Just got fresh firmware installed on my 2014 Zero SR.
My bike refused to charge with the onboard charger, it would open the contactor.
Now it charges with the key off, with the onboard charger again!
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Just got fresh firmware installed on my 2014 Zero SR.
My bike refused to charge with the onboard charger, it would open the contactor.
Now it charges with the key off, with the onboard charger again!
Do you know the firmware version before and after? This would be good to note on the Unofficial manual wiki
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Mr. Aaron Cheatham has just (OK the letter is dated 9 May but I only got it a few weeks ago) sent me these same recommendations via letter. Very nice heavyweight paper stock (more like a greeting card) and everything!
One particular item of note (highlighted in bold text by Mr. Cheatham himself) which was not in the email that was sent is that "costs of all firmware updates are fully covered by Zero, regardless of your bike's warranty status". Nice! I guess if your dealer tries to charge you for FW update you just show them the letter....I guess that might explain the super heavyweight card stock :)
Nice work Aaron!
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_20170619_031056_zpsknmchnxf.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_20170619_031056_zpsknmchnxf.jpg.html)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_20170619_023601_zps7adcyxzx.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_20170619_023601_zps7adcyxzx.jpg.html)
Ive never received anything in the mail from Zero... Im wondering if Im not registered or something...
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I just got the same letter last week (2016 FX). This policy of Zero is really admirable.
I'll wait until the next regular service to have it done because there is no indication of any problem or improvement right now.
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I just got the same letter last week (2016 FX). This policy of Zero is really admirable.
I'll wait until the next regular service to have it done because there is no indication of any problem or improvement right now.
It is recommended every bike in operation get firmware updated as of that announcement. There were some tweaks for the various model years.
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I would love a programmable SOC charge limit via the app, just like Tesla's "everyday riding" and "trip" charge. Everyday limit would be 90%, if you plan to do a longer ride just set it to 100% and embark right after finishing.
I was just about to post this, programmable SOC charge limit would be great, I would personally keep it at 80% for increased battery life :)
I hope they introduce this and faster charging option.
I like the idea, but on my 2014 SR the SoC is very unreliable. But I think you could get the effect by stopping charge at a at a particular voltage and only going to 116-117 if you choose the "trip" charge mode. Indeed, you can get battery overheat by charging to 100% and then riding hard and repeating, right @shadow?
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...you can get battery overheat by charging to 100% and then riding hard and repeating, right @shadow?
Yep am waiting in Loomis CA for my battery pack temperature to be lower than 49degC so it will accept charging again. 1kW temp goes down. 3kW temp goes down. 4kW temp is constant or goes down. 6kW temp is constant and increasing a little. 9kW temp goes up. 10kW you'll never make it in time if what you did before stopping to charge iis to ride 80mph with the fast lane.
all advice saying to ride 60mph for the last 20 minutes before stopping to charge I ignored and now it will be hours to get a full charge.
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...you can get battery overheat by charging to 100% and then riding hard and repeating, right @shadow?
Yep am waiting in Loomis CA for my battery pack temperature to be lower than 49degC so it will accept charging again. 1kW temp goes down. 3kW temp goes down. 4kW temp is constant or goes down. 6kW temp is constant and increasing a little. 9kW temp goes up. 10kW you'll never make it in time if what you did before stopping to charge iis to ride 80mph with the fast lane.
all advice saying to ride 60mph for the last 20 minutes before stopping to charge I ignored and now it will be hours to get a full charge.
Oh interesting, 20 minutes slower at the end helps? Good to know. I'd understood 60mph for the whole ride.
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I got my letter in the mail today... dated June 16th.
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Oh interesting, 20 minutes slower at the end helps? Good to know. I'd understood 60mph for the whole ride.
Yep the pack actually cools pretty good at 55mph. I don't have any hard data to back up this claim (well, maybe, BMS logs will be worth a look...) Also the magic number seems to be 120degF the contactor will not engage, at 119degF it can engage to accept charging. I was able to wait until 119degF battery then plug in 3.3kW charger and leave it like that and the pack stayed at a stable temperature on a hot day, and it would slowly decrease temperature at lower ambient temperature.
All of this is by estimation. I am sure it is a topic covered in greater detail already by Ben & Terry.
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Oh interesting, 20 minutes slower at the end helps? Good to know. I'd understood 60mph for the whole ride.
Yep the pack actually cools pretty good at 55mph. I don't have any hard data to back up this claim (well, maybe, BMS logs will be worth a look...) Also the magic number seems to be 120degF the contactor will not engage, at 119degF it can engage to accept charging. I was able to wait until 119degF battery then plug in 3.3kW charger and leave it like that and the pack stayed at a stable temperature on a hot day, and it would slowly decrease temperature at lower ambient temperature.
All of this is by estimation. I am sure it is a topic covered in greater detail already by Ben & Terry.
I agree. I have tested battery cooling after an overheat.
55 mph seems to be a great cruising speed for battery cooling. It seems to be the perfect balance between low current draw from battery and high air flow.
I can't say for sure if you are not charging and temp is 120-121 deg F if the contactor will close to start charging. You are probably right, I have always made sure temps were at least in the teens before I get to charge station so I can't confirm. But I know that if you are charging and temps rising from below 120 deg F the contactor will open if you exceed 122 deg F (50C).
If I'm charging and see I'm about to hit 50C, if another charger is close by the best tactic I found is to take a cruise at 50-55 mph and battery will cool by the time you get to next charge station. If that's not an option you may be better to ride circles to get air flow than to let the bike just sit and wait for temps to fall. Or use onboard only for a while to let temps fall then fast charge again. I have 7.9kW config so using just 3.3kW isn't an option unless I were to add a switch.
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Oh interesting, 20 minutes slower at the end helps? Good to know. I'd understood 60mph for the whole ride.
Yep the pack actually cools pretty good at 55mph. I don't have any hard data to back up this claim (well, maybe, BMS logs will be worth a look...) Also the magic number seems to be 120degF the contactor will not engage, at 119degF it can engage to accept charging. I was able to wait until 119degF battery then plug in 3.3kW charger and leave it like that and the pack stayed at a stable temperature on a hot day, and it would slowly decrease temperature at lower ambient temperature.
All of this is by estimation. I am sure it is a topic covered in greater detail already by Ben & Terry.
I agree. I have tested battery cooling after an overheat.
55 mph seems to be a great cruising speed for battery cooling. It seems to be the perfect balance between low current draw from battery and high air flow.
I can't say for sure if you are not charging and temp is 120-121 deg F if the contactor will close to start charging. You are probably right, I have always made sure temps were at least in the teens before I get to charge station so I can't confirm. But I know that if you are charging and temps rising from below 120 deg F the contactor will open if you exceed 122 deg F (50C).
If I'm charging and see I'm about to hit 50C, if another charger is close by the best tactic I found is to take a cruise at 50-55 mph and battery will cool by the time you get to next charge station. If that's not an option you may be better to ride circles to get air flow than to let the bike just sit and wait for temps to fall. Or use onboard only for a while to let temps fall then fast charge again. I have 7.9kW config so using just 3.3kW isn't an option unless I were to add a switch.
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Has anyone explored mounting heat sinks and/or fans to the outside of the battery case to bring the temps down, considering it is air cooled? Seems like an option so you don't have to ride around to cool the battery off just so you can finish charging.
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I have just the opposite problem in winter. Maybe the batteries need some kind of reversible peltier.
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Has anyone explored mounting heat sinks and/or fans to the outside of the battery case to bring the temps down, considering it is air cooled? Seems like an option so you don't have to ride around to cool the battery off just so you can finish charging.
The battery case is more insulator than thermal conductor. Repeating something I've heard said: Up to and including 2016 model year ZF monoliths there's a reason for having the case because of the exposed electronic connections, however on 2017+ the process improved a lot and all the internals are waterproof.
This bike design is simplistic and we're definitely pushing past the limitations of its thermal design when not moving and also adding so much energy into the battery system.
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Interesting tidbit of information: The process for Zero Motorcycles to mail a firmware upgrade reminder letter, does rely on the dealership doing their paperwork. I was sent a duplicate letter recently because the dealership service manager just completed a backlog of paperwork. Check with your dealership if you have not received any letter and make sure they have the correct information and are doing their homework :)
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I have just the opposite problem in winter. Maybe the batteries need some kind of reversible peltier.
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Peltiers are inherently reversible, aren't they? What a cool idea. Especially when dub-J charging, there's excess electricity available (unless you are running a liveforphysics setup with a canttalkaboutspecs battery)
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Peltiers are inherently reversible, aren't they? What a cool idea. Especially when dub-J charging, there's excess electricity available (unless you are running a liveforphysics setup with a canttalkaboutspecs battery)
Yes, peltiers are reversible in the sense that if you run current through them one way, heat is pumped from one side to the other, and if you run the current the other way, heat is pumped from the other side to the one. But peltiers are sometimes misunderstood -- there's nothing magic about them. They just move heat around, they don't eliminate or absorb it. And there's a cost associated with doing that -- more heat, not less.
Here's a typical peltier device: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CP60240/102-1676-ND/1747368 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CP60240/102-1676-ND/1747368)
It's rated for a maximum of 6 amps at 3.8 VDC. That's 22.8 watts. It's also rated to move 13 watts of heat from the cold side to the hot side, assuming you keep the delta temperature low -- at a 68C delta, it can't pump any heat at all. So if you have a big heat sink on the hot side, and probably a blower, you can pull as much as 13 watts of heat out of the cold side, but you'll have to remove that 13 watts plus 22.8 watts of heat from the hot side -- 35.8 watts total -- because the electrical power you're pumping in ADDS to the heat load and must be dissipated as well. So you're supplying 22.8 watts, plus maybe some power to a blower, and cooling things by only 13 watts. True, you can get temperatures down that way, but it's a really expensive way to do it. It's worth it in some circumstances, but for this case, you're probably ahead of the game just running a blower on the battery itself instead.
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Well, I took my 2015 SR in for the firmware upgrade, and I am absolutely in SHOCK.
I had a pleasant dealership repair experience, for about the third time in 30 years.
I expected all sorts of hassle and grief and pain, so I was dreading it. The dealership has changed hands about 4 times in the past 8 years, and several people told me "don't take your bike there, they'll mess it up!" but obviously I didn't have much choice.
I got there about 9:30am and they didn't give me any static at all. We filled out the service order, I signed it, the other tech got my bike from the parking lot in the mean time, and I went to sit in the showroom. Half an hour, the tech came and told me I was ready to go home. That's it!
Nobody made teeth sucking noises or heavy sighs, or "oh that doesn't REALLY need to be done"[1] or "we need to set up a time with a Zero tech" or "that will be expensive"[1][2] or "we won't work on it unless you bring it in on a trailer, and our trailer fee is $500"[2] or other crap.
I had brought my official letter in case they tried to charge a fee or told me it wasn't needed or anything.
I was actually expecting to make an appointment for the service. I didn't expect them to be able to do it then and there.
It's very strange to have a Zero ride silently up, especially when it's your bike. It really is completely silent... no whine, tire noise or anything.
It's kind of a strange dealership. They sell every off-brand of bike, including Suzuki, Polaris, Victory, Royal Enfield, RZR, Zero, Indian, and Ural. However they don't stock ANY sort of gear or accessories. No helmets, gloves, jackets, rain suits, bike covers, saddlebags, backrests, exhausts, tank bags, Clymers, magazines, tools, oil, etc. No wall of accessories, farkles, toys, knickknacks, etc behind the parts counter. They have the branded Indian jacket/helmet locked in a frame on the wall. Ditto for the branded Zero jacket.
This is Sky Powersports in Longwood, FL, a little north of Orlando.
I've noticed a lot of little differences. The range reading makes a lot more sense now and isn't all over the place. The battery percentage doesn't stay at 100% for a long time. The bike just clicks off when you unplug it, no minute worth of drama and clicks and flashing lights.
[1] My local Yamaha dealer said that when my FJR had an ECU recall. I had to go to another Yamaha dealer to get it done. Took the other dealer about 5 minutes to remove the old ECU and plug in a new one, since I had left that part of the fairing off. No charge.
[2] My local Yamaha dealer said that when my FJR had an ignition switch recall, which did leave me stranded a week later - fortunately only two blocks from home. I had to order the ignition switch recall kit and install it MYSELF. Oh yeah, and this is the Yamaha dealer where I bought my Zero, only to have them then insist I could install my Power Tank myself (which screwed up my bike) then stop being a Zero dealer (but I think Zero told them they weren't a Zero dealer any more)
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Well, I took my 2015 SR in for the firmware upgrade, and I am absolutely in SHOCK.
I had a pleasant dealership repair experience, for about the third time in 30 years.
I expected all sorts of hassle and grief and pain, so I was dreading it. The dealership has changed hands about 4 times in the past 8 years, and several people told me "don't take your bike there, they'll mess it up!" but obviously I didn't have much choice.
I got there about 9:30am and they didn't give me any static at all. We filled out the service order, I signed it, the other tech got my bike from the parking lot in the mean time, and I went to sit in the showroom. Half an hour, the tech came and told me I was ready to go home. That's it!
Nobody made teeth sucking noises or heavy sighs, or "oh that doesn't REALLY need to be done"[1] or "we need to set up a time with a Zero tech" or "that will be expensive"[1][2] or "we won't work on it unless you bring it in on a trailer, and our trailer fee is $500"[2] or other crap.
I had brought my official letter in case they tried to charge a fee or told me it wasn't needed or anything.
I was actually expecting to make an appointment for the service. I didn't expect them to be able to do it then and there.
It's very strange to have a Zero ride silently up, especially when it's your bike. It really is completely silent... no whine, tire noise or anything.
It's kind of a strange dealership. They sell every off-brand of bike, including Suzuki, Polaris, Victory, Royal Enfield, RZR, Zero, Indian, and Ural. However they don't stock ANY sort of gear or accessories. No helmets, gloves, jackets, rain suits, bike covers, saddlebags, backrests, exhausts, tank bags, Clymers, magazines, tools, oil, etc. No wall of accessories, farkles, toys, knickknacks, etc behind the parts counter. They have the branded Indian jacket/helmet locked in a frame on the wall. Ditto for the branded Zero jacket.
This is Sky Powersports in Longwood, FL, a little north of Orlando.
I've noticed a lot of little differences. The range reading makes a lot more sense now and isn't all over the place. The battery percentage doesn't stay at 100% for a long time. The bike just clicks off when you unplug it, no minute worth of drama and clicks and flashing lights.
[1] My local Yamaha dealer said that when my FJR had an ECU recall. I had to go to another Yamaha dealer to get it done. Took the other dealer about 5 minutes to remove the old ECU and plug in a new one, since I had left that part of the fairing off. No charge.
[2] My local Yamaha dealer said that when my FJR had an ignition switch recall, which did leave me stranded a week later - fortunately only two blocks from home. I had to order the ignition switch recall kit and install it MYSELF. Oh yeah, and this is the Yamaha dealer where I bought my Zero, only to have them then insist I could install my Power Tank myself (which screwed up my bike) then stop being a Zero dealer (but I think Zero told them they weren't a Zero dealer any more)
Thanks for the report! We really do need to start collecting dealer positive and negative experiences somewhere. Kind of like how plugshare does check-ins, calculates a score.
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I've made a suggestion to folks at the factory that I would like to see some guidance for dealerships to show a printout or something describing the old value and the new value as proof that the work was performed, if the component is still drifting or if it is settled. Moto dealerships tend to view software as dark magic sorcery and might not perform it correctly or at all, yet tell the customer the work was performed and bill the factory for the warranty hours. You can verify at least the version of your MBB firmware by using the app to pull MBB logs and then view the version on the log parser (https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/zero-log-parser.html). I did this all from my phone at the dealership before and after the firmware upgrade process to verify that the work was done. Unfortunately there's no way (yet?) to verify the commissioning offset value.
Man, I wish I could upvote this or something.
I've had LOTS of times (and so have my friends) even with ICE bikes when the dealership didn't do something they said they did (and charged for) or did something wrong.
I'm talking about things as simple as putting a tire on the wrong way. How can you match up two directional arrows and get that wrong?
Or snapping tabs off an $800 fairing piece and going "it wuz that way when it came in!"
Or dripping brake fluid on things.
Or putting in brake pads, then not getting the rotor between the pads.
Or just simply not tightening the axle, and you come home and it's only finger-tight.
Or putting on a tire and not balancing it.
Or not wanting to install the manufacturer recall kit.
Or not wanting to install your power tank and going "oh you just bolt the battery on and hook up a couple cables"
I don't trust them as far as I could throw an Abrams tank, which is why I do my own work, and work on friend's bikes.
There's a reason I posted about being in complete shock that a dealer did my firmware upgrade with no hassles.
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I just got the same letter last week (2016 FX). This policy of Zero is really admirable.
I'll wait until the next regular service to have it done because there is no indication of any problem or improvement right now.
It is recommended every bike in operation get firmware updated as of that announcement. There were some tweaks for the various model years.
Just had my firmware updated, after 18k miles on my '14 SR... Now the ap can't set the "Regen" properly in the "Custom" setup-- It goes through the steps, and the non-brake regen setting shows "0%" for an instant, then reverts to the original "60%". Among a number of other anomalies...
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Common problem after fw update. Here is the fix -
http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6843.0
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Common problem after fw update. Here is the fix -
http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6843.0 (http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6843.0)
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
--So it's the new ap version, rather than the firmware update that's messing up the settings? I'll try the old version if I can find my old phone... Thanks!
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I think it is a combination of new app version with new bike fw, that causes the problem
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I'll wait until the next regular service to have it done because there is no indication of any problem or improvement right now.
Actually, there's a couple improvements on my '15 SR. I've ridden it on some long trips every day since (vacation) and the range & percent-charged indications seem to be far more accurate. Before, it was optimistic, overestimating the range by about 20% (maybe 30%) then really dropping quickly to zero once it was below about 28% I even had it say I had 144 miles of range once after charging.
Also, the percent-charged would "stick" at 100% for a while. Now I go a mile or so and it actually does drop to 99%-98%
Today, it said 77 miles range, and I had 60 miles to go to get home. I decided to trust it, and when I got home, it said I had 14 miles left. That's much better. Before it would have dropped to zero about 5 miles from home and I would have had to limp in. Done that, and it sucks.
The day before I'd actually chickened out and come home early, only to find I did have enough range left, which is why I decided to wing it and trust it.
I kind of depend on the range because it's my main transportation and I end up running a lot of little errands on it. So it's nice to see it a little more sane.
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A few days ago , i updated my firmware version 36 by new version 52 on my s 11.4 2014. Before the only problem was when arrived at 17% soc , the soc passed to 0% suddenly.
Now, when the soc is around 35% and I put the swiicht off , and after few minutes I put the swiicht on, the soc pass at 15 % without riding the bike. Deception for me.
My dealer is 250 Kms from my home , and it is not pleasant to return there.
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I am still running version 36 and I only get a drop of one or two percent between turning the bike off and turning it back on. I also get a very accurate countdown to 0%, where the bike will suddenly stop. So I am happy with the older firmware version. :)
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I currently have version 40 on my motorcycle, after reading all the problems/issues with updates not sure if it is worth the update... it is working fine right now.
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Those who updated to version 52, what are your impression so far?
I noticed that there is no significant power loss under 50% like before. Also, no more dropping from 19% to 0%.
However, turning the bike off and back on, shows lower SOC.
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"Zero is now recommending that owners do not keep their motorcycles plugged into an AC power source once charged."
Doesn't the bike stop charging automatically after 100%? If so, why unplug, unless for long time storage where they want to keep the battery at 60% SOC?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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"Zero is now recommending that owners do not keep their motorcycles plugged into an AC power source once charged."
Doesn't the bike stop charging automatically after 100%? If so, why unplug, unless for long time storage where they want to keep the battery at 60% SOC?
-Don- Auburn, CA
I kept the bike plugged in in storage last winter (before the letter came out). By February, my cells were badly out of balance (like 60mv out of balance). I then unplugged it for the rest of the winter. I ran a plot of balance voltage from the logs and it started increasing pretty much weekly in December. After my first few rides in the spring I got it back to 3mv. Looks like they had a bug... (at least one).
Steve
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I kept the bike plugged in in storage last winter (before the letter came out). By February, my cells were badly out of balance (like 60mv out of balance). I then unplugged it for the rest of the winter. I ran a plot of balance voltage from the logs and it started increasing pretty much weekly in December. After my first few rides in the spring I got it back to 3mv. Looks like they had a bug... (at least one).
Steve
Interesting. I would have thought keeping them fully charged would be better for keeping them balanced.
BTW, I have many Android tablets (none have cell phone & my PAYG cell is a rather stupid phone). None of my tablets work with the Zero program. Some are very new, some quite old. Are there any that is compatible with the Zero program that don't have the phone, or will I have to buy a SmartPhone or what?
-Don- Reno, NV
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I've confirmed the Wemo Insight can be set to shut off when it detects low current standby, which can be set to as high as 99 watts.
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"Zero is now recommending that owners do not keep their motorcycles plugged into an AC power source once charged."
Doesn't the bike stop charging automatically after 100%? If so, why unplug, unless for long time storage where they want to keep the battery at 60% SOC?
-Don- Auburn, CA
I kept the bike plugged in in storage last winter (before the letter came out). By February, my cells were badly out of balance (like 60mv out of balance). I then unplugged it for the rest of the winter. I ran a plot of balance voltage from the logs and it started increasing pretty much weekly in December. After my first few rides in the spring I got it back to 3mv. Looks like they had a bug... (at least one).
Steve
All I ever did in the winter months was plug in once a month until I saw the balancing lights (I assume that's the alternation between the middle green light and the two outer green lights) come on. Then I unplugged the unit for a month or two. Seemed to work just fine. But now perhaps I should initially get the battery to about 60% and then just leave it for the off-season?
I also developed the habit in the summer months of waiting until the battery got down to about 30% before charging. So maybe I should be topping up after each short commute? Then would I run the risk of having the balancing lights on much of time?
Or maybe I just worry too much, and I should leave well-enough alone. After all, I probably only do a couple thousand km's per year.
As for upgrades, that's out of the question, since the nearest dealership is 1,000 km's away.
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> BTW, I have many Android tablets (none have cell phone & my PAYG cell is a rather stupid phone). None of my tablets work with the Zero program. Some are very new, some quite old. Are there any that is compatible with the Zero program that don't have the phone, or will I have to buy a SmartPhone or what?
You should probably start a new topic for this.
Yeah, but now no need. I bought a cheap new Sumsung Galaxy J1 (about $50.00@ Best Buy) which works perfectly with the Zero software.
-Don- Reno, NV
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OK, cool. If you still want to run it on your tablet as well, you can back
up the app (I use Astro File Manager) and then transfer the .apk file...
I'd had a look at Don's tablet computer devices, none are ARM processor with Android. I don't think Windows for tablet or Android for Intel are supported targets of the Zero Motorcycles App. There was an older phone Samsung Galaxy Player that was Android and ARM processor but its version of Android was too old. There may have been a way to either install a newer Android ROM to that older phone or to install an older package of the Zero Motorcycles App that would run on the older version of Android, but that's a lot of time and effort for less than an ideal outcome.
It is far easier to suggest buying a new device that would run the Zero Motorcycles App.
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Question about a full charge on a 2017 DSR. When I charge the bike and it stops at 100%. I only see 12.054 kWhours on the battery. Is this pretty standard with all the 2017 models. Are they only allowing the batteries to charge to 90% wattage but displays 100% on screen. I tried unplugging and plugging in and it never charges beyond 12.054 kWhours. Any information on what others are seeing would be great.
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...stops at 100%. I only see 12.054 kWhours...
This is normal operation for ZF13.0 and there is a pessimism factor built into the percent readout as well (6% for my 2016 DSR). You could charge the battery to 13kWh capacity but then the bike would not operate, it is designed for longer cycle life and less stress to degrade the pack.
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> ...stops at 100%. I only see 12.054 kWhours...
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/2017/specs.php?model=dsr
Look at the "nominal capacity"
[2017-10-19 I editted the link above to link to the 2017 specs, specifically, since the URL without a year now points to 2018 specs]
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Thank you very much for clarifying. I skipped right over that in the specs. Makes sense to me now. Thank you both for explaining. I was getting confused when reading thru the threads here. Everything seemed ok because my range is about where it needs to be based on riding and conditions. Ill just pay attention to see if that number ever tapers off in the future.
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I use an energy saving mains socket for PCs:
http://www.ansmann.de/en/products/chargers-power-supplies/energy-saving-mains-sockets/aes3?___store=en (http://www.ansmann.de/en/products/chargers-power-supplies/energy-saving-mains-sockets/aes3?___store=en)
It's programmable to the standby consumption of the plugged in device and switches power off after 1 minute as soon as the standby draw have been reached.
Power on is via push button.
I see you program it by pushing the red button. I don't see what the limits are. Specs are a little sparse. Can it really be told that 500 watts or so should be considered standby? Or is it some more normal figure, like Wemo Insight's limit of 99 watts.
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I ordered one of the eurospec ones to try
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122689768397
(I already have a euro style power strip coming off the nema 14-50.)
It'll be interesting to see if it can be told that 800 watts or so should be considered "standby".
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Well, I just got back from getting the latest software flashed on to my Zero S. It reset my "Custom" settings but I was easily able to change them back to what I like.
One other thing I noticed was that as soon as the bluetooth connection was established, the display on the app went directly into the "Riding Screen" mode. I used to have to manually select that. If I want to get into the "Settings" screen it looks like I have to deploy the sidestand... THEN I can get into the "Settings" panel.
So far, that's all I've noticed.
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...the display on the app went directly into the "Riding Screen" mode. I used to have to manually select that. If I want to get into the "Settings" screen it looks like I have to deploy the sidestand...
Sounds like expected behavior. Try also the throttle-disable switch if you need your kickstand up and want to access the app in non-riding screen mode.
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You could be right. I don't think I ever tried to access the settings while I was sitting on the bike before. What happened was on my ride back home I switched to "Custom" mode and noticed I wasn't getting anywhere near the amount of regenerative braking I was used to. I pulled over to the shoulder to try to check it, but I couldn't get into the settings menu.
After I got home and parked it in the garage on the charger I tried again and this time didn't have any issue getting to the settings menu. While I was on the side of the road, I had the sidestand up, and the "On/Off" switch on the right handlebar was in the "On" position. Naturally, in the garage on the charger, the sidestand was down.
Anyway, it turns out that the software update reset everything to defaults and the regen was set to "60%" in Custom mode. I cranked it back up to 100% and it's back to the way I like it.
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You could be right. I don't think I ever tried to access the settings while I was sitting on the bike before. What happened was on my ride back home I switched to "Custom" mode and noticed I wasn't getting anywhere near the amount of regenerative braking I was used to. I pulled over to the shoulder to try to check it, but I couldn't get into the settings menu.
After I got home and parked it in the garage on the charger I tried again and this time didn't have any issue getting to the settings menu. While I was on the side of the road, I had the sidestand up, and the "On/Off" switch on the right handlebar was in the "On" position. Naturally, in the garage on the charger, the sidestand was down.
Anyway, it turns out that the software update reset everything to defaults and the regen was set to "60%" in Custom mode. I cranked it back up to 100% and it's back to the way I like it.
That happened to me a couple of times on my 2014 Zero S, but it was very random and had no pattern, other then it seemed to occur when I was riding in air with very high (100%) humidity. Once returning home I was always able to restore my custom setting.
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I have version 40 on my DSR 2016, what is the latest version? Im still hesitant on doing and update. I only have one dealership in town and Im not sure they have enough experience on Zeros... so Im not sure if they will do it right... I don't ride a lot, bought it June 2017 and so far only 1600 miles.
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I have version 40 on my DSR 2016, what is the latest version? Im still hesitant on doing and update. I only have one dealership in town and Im not sure they have enough experience on Zeros... so Im not sure if they will do it right... I don't ride a lot, bought it June 2017 and so far only 1600 miles.
If your bike is running fine, DON'T DO IT. Countless messages here and on Facebook indicate there is an issue with the new software regarding range and state of charge. Typically, if you have a 13 kWh model, it now will start behaving like a 9.6 kWh model. Haven't seen any indication of a fix from Zero, just a lot of frustrated users (including me).
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The 2014 S that I gave my daughter still has revision 36 and the bike is running well enough that she has no intention of rolling the dice. ;)
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Agreed... so far most of the riders are having problems after the update... no need to do it. Thanks.
Can you undo an update? if it is... might be worth it.. to have it working the way it was before the update.
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Hi,
First of all, thanks for this forum : Plenty of usefull informations here. That's great !
I searched for informations on this thread (and others), and I'm still not sure how to charge correctly my zero sr 2015 (stock firmware)... The informations are cristal clear for long term storage but I'm not certain that pluging the charger every day (i use 5-10 % a day) is good for the battery. Maybe I missed something, what would be you advice ? (I send a message to zero a few days ago, but no answer yet...)
Thank you !
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Hi,
First of all, thanks for this forum : Plenty of usefull informations here. That's great !
I searched for informations on this thread (and others), and I'm still not sure how to charge correctly my zero sr 2015 (stock firmware)... The informations are cristal clear for long term storage but I'm not certain that pluging the charger every day (i use 5-10 % a day) is good for the battery. Maybe I missed something, what would be you advice ? (I send a message to zero a few days ago, but no answer yet...)
Thank you !
I leave my Zero plugged it until it is fully charged and the batteries have balanced (indicated by a steady green charging light) then pull the plug. I ride my Zero several times a week.
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My '16 SR is back to having rock solid SoC and range estimates after firmware downgrade/revert. Electric Cowboy (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=profile;u=1671) has more info about this process.
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Hi All, new to the forum and fairly new owner of a 14 Zero SR. I got it for what seemed like a steal from a dealer (non zero). When i received it was 100% charged however every time i have charged it since it constantly stops charging anywhere from 89% to 94%. I plan on taking it to a Zero dealer soon (need state inspection done anyway) and was hoping the firmware update the app keeps reminding me about may help.
Anyone else have this issue?
Overall it does not affect me much. I still get to work with about 65% left with mixed highway and backroad riding.
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Here's something you can try if you want it fully charged: If it is stuck around 90% remove the cord from the outlet and after some time(half an hour, 4 cups of coffee, something like that?) plug it back in. It should kickstart the charging to 100%.
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Thanks! Since i charge at work I'll go unplug before lunch then plug it back after lunch to give that a try.
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Updated firmware in June 2018.
No issues with update. Two years old and still best bike I have ever owned.
Updated July
after update odometer frozen at last firmware update. everyday range gets worse. Uses 40% more battery charge to do same trip as before. I didn't notice this right away but after a few rides noticed it was :( worse after update.
Update end of July 2018 again:
Dealer had wrong type of motorcycle selected in firmware update. Fixed the update and now bike is better than ever. Total cost was two trips to the dealer to fix it. Lesson learned for me was make sure that your odometer works before you leave the dealer after the update.
Still love this bike.
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Unpinning this topic of new charging recommendations, seems the information is well-known by now.
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thank for information :D :D
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I finally decided to update the firmware on my 2016 DSR, I was hesitant for a while... a lot of members were/are having issues after the update... but rolled the dice and did it. The good news.. it feels the same... it was working great IMO before... so for me no change is good... but with a newer version... I think is 53 now.
I download the logs to confirm the update, before and after the dealer update. I had 40 now 53.
What is the other thing that I need to check if it was updated? BMS?
Thanks.
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I finally decided to update the firmware on my 2016 DSR, I was hesitant for a while... a lot of members were/are having issues after the update... but rolled the dice and did it. The good news.. it feels the same... it was working great IMO before... so for me no change is good... but with a newer version... I think is 53 now.
I download the logs to confirm the update, before and after the dealer update. I had 40 now 53.
What is the other thing that I need to check if it was updated? BMS?
Thanks.
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And what a spectacular firmware update failure it was for my 2014 DS, completely trashed the bike as reported under separate thread! Embarrassing for Aaron cheatham, I wonder if he still works there!?
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My old 2014 S is still running fine with the original firmware installed by the factory in early 2014. The estimated battery power percentage is particularly stable and will run right down to 0% before shutting off (no hidden reserve). I think many of these firmware updates by Zero are an attempt to increase the operating life of their battery pack and sometimes they just don't work out as they expected.
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oh thank